Black Man Gunned Down By Police In Ohio Walmart While Shopping For Air Gun

[Dari]

I have not heard about this other person dying, do you have a link?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/new-details-in-deaths-of-2-at-walmart/nhWF3/

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

drive
question cops
comply with cops
run from cops
buy BB guns
carry gun
might be carrying gun
buy expensive items in a store
walk through a store without being followed

there are many more

You forgot breathing...not allowed to that either.

Oh, can't walk around in cold weather with hands in pockets.....too suspicious

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

It wasn't a fuck up. The gun looked real, I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in a split second. The call came out that a man was waving a gun around a Walmart. Then he didn't listen and put it down like told to do.

They didn't suggest or treat her badly. She could have had a lawyer, she chose not to. He asked if she was on drugs or drank alcohol, she said no, they didn't bring it back up. It is his fault he is dead. Don't carry around a realistic looking gun if you don't want to be shot. Calling it a toy, doesn't take away the fact that is looked very, very real. Except people keep using that word, like it makes what he did ok. Put two side by side, you couldn't tell the difference in the time that they had.

But nice insults about Officers, makes you look super smart.

Actually it was a total fuckup. You realize that this happened in an open carry state right? So it is 100% legal to carry a real firearm around. So since he wasn't threatening anyone, he did NOTHING illegal.

Police burst in and didn't bother to assess the situation, and instead blew him away in under 3seconds. The man did nothing wrong. He didn't point the fake weapon at anyone, he didn't threaten anyone. He was executed by the cops.

 

[werepossum]

I have not heard about this other person dying, do you have a link?

http://newsone.com/3056226/angela-williams-womans-death-following-walmart-shooting-ruled-homicide/

She had a known heart condition, but her death was ruled a homicide because the coroner ruled that absent the shooting and hysteria as she was fleeing the store, she would not have died at that time.

EDIT: One amazing thing is that these officers had just finished training on dealing with shooters two weeks before. This was the new, enlightened tactical policy. Presumably the old policy was to be really, really safe and just shoot a random unarmed black man out on the street rather than entering the store.

 

[ivwshane]

http://newsone.com/3056226/angela-williams-womans-death-following-walmart-shooting-ruled-homicide/

She had a known heart condition, but her death was ruled a homicide because the coroner ruled that absent the shooting and hysteria as she was fleeing the store, she would not have died at that time.

EDIT: One amazing thing is that these officers had just finished training on dealing with shooters two weeks before. This was the new, enlightened tactical policy. Presumably the old policy was to be really, really safe and just shoot a random unarmed black man out on the street rather than entering the store.

Simply disgusting.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I have not heard about this other person dying, do you have a link?

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/new-details-in-deaths-of-2-at-walmart/nhWF3/

 

[bradley]

Simply disgusting.

Here's the woman (who also died that day) in question (black hair, white top, blue pants) spotted at 8:20:30 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9FtNOV6Qhk&t=1m4s

With two children in tow, she wheels her cart behind Crawford, goes outside briefly only to reenter the store at 8:26:15. Less than 40 seconds later police recklessly open fire across an active automatic door.

Notice how police never bother properly identifying themselves or articulating any genuine commands. How about: "Police! Hands up and drop the weapon!"? They never even bothered to properly assess the situation.

Instead police simultaneously bark an arbitrary command like "get down" while firing two shots to center mass.

Then police and the DA attempt to slander Crawford by leaking a fairly slim arrest record to sway public opinion, while not allowing surveillance footage to be seen till after the Grand Jury trial. Meanwhile officials never bother gathering timely statements from the offending officers, which allows days to formulate and craft their stories.

Now we further discover police also harassed and aggressively interrogated his grieving girlfriend.

Beyond disgusting.

 

[werepossum]

Here's the woman (who also died that day) in question (black hair, white top, blue pants) spotted at 8:20:30 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9FtNOV6Qhk&t=1m4s

With two children in tow, she wheels her cart behind Crawford, goes outside briefly only to reenter the store at 8:26:15. Less than 40 seconds later police recklessly open fire across an active automatic door.

Notice how police never bother properly identifying themselves or articulating any genuine commands. How about: "Police! Hands up and drop the weapon!"? They never even bothered to properly assess the situation.

Instead police simultaneously bark an arbitrary command like "get down" while firing two shots to center mass.

Then police and the DA attempt to slander Crawford by leaking a fairly slim arrest record to sway public opinion, while not allowing surveillance footage to be seen till after the Grand Jury trial. Meanwhile officials never bother gathering timely statements from the offending officers, which allows days to formulate and craft their stories.

Now we further discover police also harassed and aggressively interrogated his grieving girlfriend.

Beyond disgusting.

My G-d, she died in front of her small children for absolutely no reason at all.

There's little in this case that isn't beyond disgusting.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I wonder if there will be two civil cases against the police department. Again the cops were essentially swatted to WalMart but they didn't seem to use very good judgment.

 

[bradley]

Whoa, I just saw this story. On January 2nd, John Crawford's girlfriend (the same one who police severely interrogated) died as a passenger of a car accident. Allegedly the driver was going 90-110mph and hit a tree in a residential neighborhood. The wreck is absolutely hellacious.

Girlfriend of Ohio man shot dead by police in Walmart dies in car crash: Tasha Thomas, who was falsely accused of helping John Crawford III bring a gun into the store last August, was killed when she was ejected from a car in Dayton on New Year's Day, WHIO reported. The 26-year-old mother of three was with Crawford when he found the BB gun on a store shelf and was killed.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...led-cops-walmart-dies-crash-article-1.2064396

 

[highland145]

Holy smokes. Tree 1, car 0.

 

[Linux23]

woah so tragic.

 

[Darwin333]

I wouldn't disagree with any of that, I'm just pointing out that they didn't have the option of confronting him while remaining reasonably safe from rifle fire. I do NOT think it was a good shoot in any form or fashion.

As I pointed out earlier, they could and should have exercised restraint given that he was not shooting, taken some time to get a sense of the tactical picture. Had they observed him for a moment, they would have known he was threatening no one and likely would not threaten anyone.

One of the things that makes cops admirable is a willingness to accept more risk than do most of us. Like a fireman who runs into a burning building, cops run toward the shooting while the rest of us run away. Starting with Columbine, I've seen a movement toward just the opposite, where cops accept less risk than do most of us. Most of us would not crouch behind cover, pistol drawn, while school children are cold-bloodily executed and gunshot victims slowly bleed out because we too might be shot if we try to help. Most of us would not shoot a twelve year old boy on the grounds that he MIGHT draw his pistol and shoot us. Most of us would not shoot a man carrying a rifle and threatening no one just because he might shoot us if we don't shoot him first. This is threatening the social contract between cops and civilians. There is no reason to grant them more leeway in using violence if they are not accepting more risk.

I don't think this is representative of most cops. However, I do think it is a movement, showing up in using SWAT teams and tactics to raid neighborhood poker games and serve warrants for minor criminals.

Agree 100% bud. These days the cops put the public in more danger in the name of "officer safety". Instead of waiting for staking out a place and arresting someone on the way out of their house to get a 6 pack they show up with a swat team, knock down doors, throw flashbangs and raid the place. Ooops, we accidentally put munitions down range without knowing what was there at all, like throwing a flashbang grenade into a babies crib, "umm officer safety and hell no we ain't paying those medical bills even though the guy we were looking for wasn't even there. Sucks to be your baby but hey, we are here to protect and serve!"

Another one I read recently, the SWAT team shows up to arrest a guy because he had a bench warrant for missing court for a DWI conviction, the guys wife and kids walk out and a standoff ensues. The guy fires a single shot and stops communicating with the police altogether. That single shot was a self inflicted gunshot, the guy killed himself. Over the next 61 hours they proceed to knock half of the house down with their armored vehicles and shoot teargas into the house. Now the poor wife and kids lost their father/husband and their home has been condemned due to the police crashing their armored vehicle into the house multiple times. Seriously???

 

[werepossum]

Agree 100% bud. These days the cops put the public in more danger in the name of "officer safety". Instead of waiting for staking out a place and arresting someone on the way out of their house to get a 6 pack they show up with a swat team, knock down doors, throw flashbangs and raid the place. Ooops, we accidentally put munitions down range without knowing what was there at all, like throwing a flashbang grenade into a babies crib, "umm officer safety and hell no we ain't paying those medical bills even though the guy we were looking for wasn't even there. Sucks to be your baby but hey, we are here to protect and serve!"

Another one I read recently, the SWAT team shows up to arrest a guy because he had a bench warrant for missing court for a DWI conviction, the guys wife and kids walk out and a standoff ensues. The guy fires a single shot and stops communicating with the police altogether. That single shot was a self inflicted gunshot, the guy killed himself. Over the next 61 hours they proceed to knock half of the house down with their armored vehicles and shoot teargas into the house. Now the poor wife and kids lost their father/husband and their home has been condemned due to the police crashing their armored vehicle into the house multiple times. Seriously???

Holy crap. Maybe instead of armored vehicles we need to be providing cops with drones. For five hundred bucks or so one can get a pretty darned good quadrotor with HD camera that can tell you where a suspect is. (And if he's, you know, dead.)

To be fair, I should add that Columbine is probably behind some of this. The behavior of those cops was so heinous that sweeping changes were made in officer training, so that instead of hunkering down and waiting on SWAT officers are now expected to rush toward the shooting and engage. I applaud that, but it has nothing to do with this case where no shooting was occurring before the police action that caused the deaths of an innocent lady, a man guilty of nothing more than shopping, and indirectly perhaps the man's girlfriend. And it certainly doesn't excuse using SWAT teams to serve relatively minor warrants, or throwing in flashbangs to arrest a minor drug dealer who wasn't even in that house.

 

[Darwin333]

My G-d, she died in front of her small children for absolutely no reason at all.

There's little in this case that isn't beyond disgusting.

How about we add that most police unions have "negotiated" that officers have 24-72 hours to give their reports when they are involved in a shooting. A ton of them even allow the officer involved to review evidence, including video evidence, BEFORE giving their statements.

Who needs 3 days and a review of all the evidence before giving a statement about their own actions???

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2...tories-straight-after-shooting-citizens.shtml

 

[Darwin333]

Holy crap. Maybe instead of armored vehicles we need to be providing cops with drones. For five hundred bucks or so one can get a pretty darned good quadrotor with HD camera that can tell you where a suspect is. (And if he's, you know, dead.)

To be fair, I should add that Columbine is probably behind some of this. The behavior of those cops was so heinous that sweeping changes were made in officer training, so that instead of hunkering down and waiting on SWAT officers are now expected to rush toward the shooting and engage. I applaud that, but it has nothing to do with this case where no shooting was occurring before the police action that caused the deaths of an innocent lady, a man guilty of nothing more than shopping, and indirectly perhaps the man's girlfriend. And it certainly doesn't excuse using SWAT teams to serve relatively minor warrants, or throwing in flashbangs to arrest a minor drug dealer who wasn't even in that house.

I get the entire Columbine thing but the job is supposed to be "protect and serve". I always assumed that meant to protect and serve the public but evidently it means to protect and serve the police since officer safety is obviously a far greater priority than public safety.

Btw, I couldn't find the original article I read on the story but I found a similar one, watch the video to see exactly what was "necessary" to apprehend a man that killed himself long before any damage to the structure took place. Homeowners insurance ain't paying for that either, as if the wife and kids hadn't lost enough already....

http://www.policestateusa.com/2015/cady-raid/

 

[werepossum]

I get the entire Columbine thing but the job is supposed to be "protect and serve". I always assumed that meant to protect and serve the public but evidently it means to protect and serve the police since officer safety is obviously a far greater priority than public safety.

Btw, I couldn't find the original article I read on the story but I found a similar one, watch the video to see exactly what was "necessary" to apprehend a man that killed himself long before any damage to the structure took place. Homeowners insurance ain't paying for that either, as if the wife and kids hadn't lost enough already....

http://www.policestateusa.com/2015/cady-raid/

Holy crap, I've seen condemned houses destroyed by tornadoes that appeared to have less damage.

The point of the post-Columbine policy changes is to protect and serve, that the cop rushes toward the gunfire to protect others at his own risk.

 

[Darwin333]

Holy crap, I've seen condemned houses destroyed by tornadoes that appeared to have less damage.

All to apprehend a man that had been dead so long his body was room temp. They could have used RPGs and caused less damage FFS. There were no hostages, no threats to the police, a single shot fired with ZERO bullets leaving the residence so whats the tactic..... Oooh lets ram the house with a tank a few times, I mean we brought it all the way out here and we haven't gotten much use out of it so fuck yeah, I call shotgun!

The point of the post-Columbine policy changes is to protect and serve, that the cop rushes toward the gunfire to protect others at his own risk.

Seeing the results, I'd bet a months pay that you and me could come up with better policy changes over a case of beer (or two, I'm a N'awlins boy so I can put a few away not sure about you) on Superbowl Sunday, at the Superbowl and writing on the back of nacho cheese laden napkins.