Black Hawk Down, Mogadishu was Al Qaeda strike!

[heartsurgeon]

Bob Kerrey rips Clinton a new one in todays 9/11 commission hearing.

Asks Tenent why Clinton never galvanized public opinion against Al Qaeda in 1993, 1997, 1998.

reviews (i certainly didn't know this) that the downing of the Black Hawk helicopter in Mogadishu was an Al Qaeda operation!

Kerrey stated he hads heard excuses about public opinion not supporting action against Al Qaeda earlier..he lays the blame at Clinton's feet, states he should have and could have raised public knowledge and opinion against Al Qaeda and this would have allowed earlier action.

 

[GrGr]

Hang him (Clinton) high!

 

[smashp]

now Just Rip Bush For his inactions also and you may be Balanced.

Both of them made mistakes.

but hindesight is 20/20


The problem is and Was that our Intelligence Agencies Were designed to fight the USSR and Are Possibly still Limited in fighting a Guerrilla Enemy.


A chipmunk gets out of a bear trap.

 

[Crimson]

Bush's INACTION? Iraq and Afghanistan are his ACTIONS. Clinton had attacks on American soil and did NOTHING.. Bush responded, Clinton didn't..

BOTH of them had intelligence failures under their watch.. but don't say Bush didn't ACT.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Bush's INACTION? Iraq and Afghanistan are his ACTIONS. Clinton had attacks on American soil and did NOTHING.. Bush responded, Clinton didn't..

BOTH of them had intelligence failures under their watch.. but don't say Bush didn't ACT.

Iraq has NOTHING to do with the war on terror.

Bush took five months to move any sizable number of forces into Afghanistan. Five months! By then, the Al Qaeda leaders were long gone into Iran, Pakistan, and beyond.

As for the OP, the Pentagon is to blame for the tragedy in Mogadishu. They ran repeated strikes at the same time every day. They were asking to be attacked. Clinton (and Clarke) were wanting covert operations but the Pentagon doesn't do covert and the CIA would not agree to it.

 

[GrGr]

Well so far Bush's actions has cost the lifes of some 13,000 civilians. Any fool can ACT. When will the US bloodletting stop? There weren't any terrorists in Iraq pre-invasion. There sure are thousands that will become terrorists now. Good job Bush. What other ACTION could possibly create more terrorists than an illegal invasion of an Arab country?

 

[DBL]

Please. The Mogadishu situation was the result of an unfortunate accident (Seal who fell from a helicopter). W/O this, the raid would most likely have been pulled off w/o a hitch.

Why continue to attack Clinton w/ regard to his actions against Al Qaeda. The simple fact remains that before 9/11, there was no public support for significant offensive operations against terrorists. In fact, when Clinton lobbed a few dozen cruise missiles into Afghanistan in an effort to eliminate bin Laden, it was Republicans who screamed that he only did so to deflect attention from Monica.

Why is it so hard to remember this?

 

[tec699]

Bush is turning our great nation into nazi Germany! Please check out my thread if you don't believe me.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: GrGr
Well so far Bush's actions has cost the lifes of some 13,000 civilians. Any fool can ACT. When will the US bloodletting stop? There weren't any terrorists in Iraq pre-invasion. There sure are thousands that will become terrorists now. Good job Bush. What other ACTION could possibly create more terrorists than an illegal invasion of an Arab country?

What were the reasons for the Middle East being at war with eachother/the world before the United States existed? Was its Britain's fault? What about before then? The Romans? The Greeks? Seems like we have a lot of excuses for people who have been at war for thousands of years trying to exterminate those who disagree with them.

If suppporting freedom and democracy in the middle east creates MORE terrorists, then there is something seriously wrong with those people. But, some of us already knew that.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: tec699
Bush is turning our great nation into nazi Germany! Please check out my thread if you don't believe me.

Thanks for trivializing the deaths of millions of Jews in order to make a political statement against George Bush.. moron.

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: tec699
Bush is turning our great nation into nazi Germany! Please check out my thread if you don't believe me.

Thanks for trivializing the deaths of millions of Jews in order to make a political statement against George Bush.. moron.

I seriously hope he was being sarcastic. Because if he wasn't, then I wish he could have lived in nazi germany at the time, just to realize that what he's saying is total BS. Also, his statement is seriously misdirected if he wasn't being sarcastic, *IF* (and this is still an if) anyone is taking away peoples rights or trying to turn this country into a police state and pissing on the constitution, it would be Ashcroft, not Bush.

 

[drewshin]

is heartsurgeon kamazon's twin brother? they seem to have the same penchant for outlandish posts.

 

[kage69]

Please. The Mogadishu situation was the result of an unfortunate accident (Seal who fell from a helicopter).

Huh?

 

[GasX]

Originally posted by: tec699
Bush is turning our great nation into nazi Germany! Please check out my thread if you don't believe me.

I checked out your thread and you are an idiot.

 

[MacBaine]

Originally posted by: DBL
Please. The Mogadishu situation was the result of an unfortunate accident (Seal who fell from a helicopter). W/O this, the raid would most likely have been pulled off w/o a hitch.

Army Ranger, not SEAL.

And his falling wasn't a direct cause of the crashes. The helicopters damn well may have been shot down whether he had falled or not.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: GrGr
Well so far Bush's actions has cost the lifes of some 13,000 civilians. Any fool can ACT. When will the US bloodletting stop? There weren't any terrorists in Iraq pre-invasion. There sure are thousands that will become terrorists now. Good job Bush. What other ACTION could possibly create more terrorists than an illegal invasion of an Arab country?

What were the reasons for the Middle East being at war with eachother/the world before the United States existed? Was its Britain's fault? What about before then? The Romans? The Greeks? Seems like we have a lot of excuses for people who have been at war for thousands of years trying to exterminate those who disagree with them.

If suppporting freedom and democracy in the middle east creates MORE terrorists, then there is something seriously wrong with those people. But, some of us already knew that.

What exactly is seriously wrong with Arabs? Can you prove that Arabs/Middle East people are more belligerent than other people?

And do you really believe in Bush's "freedom" and "democracy" rhetoric?

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: MacBaine

Army Ranger, not SEAL.

And his falling wasn't a direct cause of the crashes. The helicopters damn well may have been shot down whether he had falled or not.

Thanks for pointing that out. Anything is possible but the general consensus is that this particular accident was the catalyst for everything else that went wrong after. The point is that it is irresponsible to assign blame to Clinton for the situation.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: kage69

Please. The Mogadishu situation was the result of an unfortunate accident (Seal who fell from a helicopter).

Huh?

Simple.

If the Mogadishu situation was the result of an Al Qaeda operation and you blame Clinton for not acting against Al Qaeda, then you are blaming Clinton for Mogadishu. Essentially, that is what heartsurgeon is saying. Understand?

I am saying that whole situation escalated out of control when an Army Ranger (thanks for the correction) fell from a helicopter in the beginning stages of the operation. The fact that some of the Somalis may have had contact with Al Qaeda is inconsequential since the situation was not an Al Qaeda operation". It was a US operation.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: GrGr
Well so far Bush's actions has cost the lifes of some 13,000 civilians. Any fool can ACT. When will the US bloodletting stop? There weren't any terrorists in Iraq pre-invasion. There sure are thousands that will become terrorists now. Good job Bush. What other ACTION could possibly create more terrorists than an illegal invasion of an Arab country?

What were the reasons for the Middle East being at war with eachother/the world before the United States existed? Was its Britain's fault? What about before then? The Romans? The Greeks? Seems like we have a lot of excuses for people who have been at war for thousands of years trying to exterminate those who disagree with them.

If suppporting freedom and democracy in the middle east creates MORE terrorists, then there is something seriously wrong with those people. But, some of us already knew that.

you are one racist piece of sh1t.

and pupet governments ARE NOT freedom and democracy.

 

[heartsurgeon]

The fact that some of the Somalis may have had contact with Al Qaeda is inconsequential since the situation was not an Al Qaeda operation".

Not so fast...Al Qaeda trained the people who shot down the helicopter. They probably supplied them with the arms to do it. It may not have been planned, but they had been taught how to do what they did. Clinton even knew (this is documented) the location of the camp where these folks were trained. Perhaps they were not Al Qaeda, but without the support and training of Al Qaeda, it's possible the event may never have happened. Your using the "this was a criminal enterprise" mentality in analyzing this situation (like the Clinton's). If you take the approach that we were at war with Al Qaeda, then,the somalis become allies of Al Qaeda, and as such we are at war with them as well. this is the genesis of the Bush statement "either for us or against us" It reflects a war time judgment of actions.

Latest stuff coming out about Clinton and Sudan and Bin Laden...Hannity interviewed the Ambassador to the Sudan when this stuff was going on, and he confirmed that Clinton was offered Bin Laden, and didn't accept him because "he had committed no crime against the U.S"

forget the PDB with it's non-specific comments about Bin Laden wanting to hurt us....Clinton could have gotten rid of Bin Laden with a single phone call. 9/11 may never have happened.....that's the smoking double barrel shotgun ....can you imagine how the liberals would be howling for Bush's head if he had done that?

 

[Bulk Beef]

Anything is possible but the general consensus is that this particular accident was the catalyst for everything else that went wrong after.

I don't think that's at all correct. It was simply the first thing to go wrong, but aside from having a few Humvees split off from the rest of the convoy, and subsequently getting shot to sh!t, Todd Blackburn's fall did not in any way cause the downing of the first Blackhawk. I don't know whose "general consensus" you're referring to, but it's BS.

 

[drewshin]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

The fact that some of the Somalis may have had contact with Al Qaeda is inconsequential since the situation was not an Al Qaeda operation".

Not so fast...Al Qaeda trained the people who shot down the helicopter. They probably supplied them with the arms to do it. It may not have been planned, but they had been taught how to do what they did. Clinton even knew (this is documented) the location of the camp where these folks were trained. Perhaps they were not Al Qaeda, but without the support and training of Al Qaeda, it's possible the event may never have happened. Your using the "this was a criminal enterprise" mentality in analyzing this situation (like the Clinton's). If you take the approach that we were at war with Al Qaeda, then,the somalis become allies of Al Qaeda, and as such we are at war with them as well. this is the genesis of the Bush statement "either for us or against us" It reflects a war time judgment of actions.

hmm by your reasoning many of the senior al qaeda members were supplied and trained by americans, i know americans didnt plan this operation, but we taught them how to do what they did, so americans should be responsible for killing americans in somalia. nice reasoning! LOL

 

[Helenihi]

Originally posted by: drewshin

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

The fact that some of the Somalis may have had contact with Al Qaeda is inconsequential since the situation was not an Al Qaeda operation".

Not so fast...Al Qaeda trained the people who shot down the helicopter. They probably supplied them with the arms to do it. It may not have been planned, but they had been taught how to do what they did. Clinton even knew (this is documented) the location of the camp where these folks were trained. Perhaps they were not Al Qaeda, but without the support and training of Al Qaeda, it's possible the event may never have happened. Your using the "this was a criminal enterprise" mentality in analyzing this situation (like the Clinton's). If you take the approach that we were at war with Al Qaeda, then,the somalis become allies of Al Qaeda, and as such we are at war with them as well. this is the genesis of the Bush statement "either for us or against us" It reflects a war time judgment of actions.

hmm by your reasoning many of the senior al qaeda members were supplied and trained by americans, i know americans didnt plan this operation, but we taught them how to do what they did, so americans should be responsible for killing americans in somalia. nice reasoning! LOL

What the hell are you babbling about?

 

[Dangermouse33]

Originally posted by: drewshin

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon

The fact that some of the Somalis may have had contact with Al Qaeda is inconsequential since the situation was not an Al Qaeda operation".

Not so fast...Al Qaeda trained the people who shot down the helicopter. They probably supplied them with the arms to do it. It may not have been planned, but they had been taught how to do what they did. Clinton even knew (this is documented) the location of the camp where these folks were trained. Perhaps they were not Al Qaeda, but without the support and training of Al Qaeda, it's possible the event may never have happened. Your using the "this was a criminal enterprise" mentality in analyzing this situation (like the Clinton's). If you take the approach that we were at war with Al Qaeda, then,the somalis become allies of Al Qaeda, and as such we are at war with them as well. this is the genesis of the Bush statement "either for us or against us" It reflects a war time judgment of actions.

hmm by your reasoning many of the senior al qaeda members were supplied and trained by americans, i know americans didnt plan this operation, but we taught them how to do what they did, so americans should be responsible for killing americans in somalia. nice reasoning! LOL

Stop smoking crack.

 

[dahunan]

Fvck Bob Kerry.. WHY didn't HE alert people that al-qaeda was responsible for the Blackhawk? <<IF it is true??