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BJJ or MMA

L

Lazy8s

Golden Member
I figured having BJJ in the title would get plenty of hits. Anyways I'm getting interested in martial arts through a kickboxing friend and after some consideration I think I might try out Brazilian Ju Jutsu. Anyone kere practice that or another form of Ju Jutsu?

I know Judo is a form technically but I likethe "down and dirty" that's taught in Ju Jutsu. To me self defense is a nice side effect of the physical and mental rigerousness. Judo takes out any move that could cause injury to a person and frankly when it's me or him I'm gonna break his neck.

That does, however, bring up a concern for me. In BJJ sparring and competition are paramount (one of it's drawing points) but I don't want to tear my ACL or some other permenant life-altering injury The idea here is to learn to defend myself, not learn to be an Ultimate Fighter and die honorably.

So yeah, thoughts, suggestions?.....gratuitous "I thought BJJ was something else this is lame" comments, though not as helpful, at least keep this bumped so bring it on.
 
seriously? no mixed matrial artists here at all?


....I know it's an internet forum but fome of us are actually in quite good shape.
 
First, read http://aliveness101.blogspot.com/ before choosing any martial arts.

Second, both judo and and bjj you will learn the same basic skills. Judo will focus more on throws, and bjj more on the ground. I currently train in both. I suffer more injurys in judo due to throws and reaps then I do in bjj. However as long as you tap and dont try to act like a tough guy you should never have horrible injurys (although accidents can happen). Its no more dangerous then anything else you can do.

Sparing is very important if you are actually going to use the skills you are learning. Without sparing you will never learn the details that make things work. Judo, bjj, etc are very sparing oriented. You do not however need to compete. I would suggest taking stock in exactly what you want out of the martial arts. Then read up on some arts, and go try some classes. Do not take what anyone says to you at face value, ask questions and if it sounds like bullcrap it probably is. Be wary of contracts, and high prices and black belt clubs. Be wary of kiddy blackbelts. You can also post links to any webpages of schools you find on http://www.bullshido.com and get insight on the club and find out if it is fake or not.

Personally I recomend these arts. BJJ, Judo, kyokushin karate, boxing, kickboxing, mauy thai, submission wrestling, sambo, and anything else that really spars (not point or no touch sparing). And remember, no martial is too deadly to spar. If they say that, get out of there.

personally, I would find a good BJJ school that also has standup training. Or find a good judo school, then find a good standup school. Please feel free to PM me any questions you might have.

I also wanted to comment on judo. Judo took out moves that could not be practiced safely. But it is still very dangerious. You still learn how to break arms, choke people uncouncious, and throw them on their heads. That is some hard core stuff. The stuff they took out where mainly punches, kicks, and leglocks. And that stuff is found in their kata, just not used in competition.
 
BJJ for self defense. Or Judo. Any type of grabbling will serve you well in a fight.

MMA is just what it means. You learn multiple disciplines and that is great.

I am lucky. My instructor is a 5th Degree in Judo and a Purple Belt in BJJ. So I get a good mix of throws from Judo and good guard skills from BJJ.
 
BJJ is great for what it's focused on: 1 on 1 fighting on the ground

Its main drawback I see is that it doesn't work well if there's more than 1 opponent you're facing. Standup training and evasion are useful for that aspect.

So I would suggest doing a ground art only if the dojo teaches standup methods as well (either as part of the art or as a different art). And by standup methods I don't mean methods on how to take the opponent to the ground by grappling.
 
Cool thx for the responses! Thx a ton for the links sourceninja!

I started off here: http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Martial-Art
and http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Martial-Arts-School

Then I spent a bunch of time at wikipedia reading about histories and everything. Then I checked my local police station and they said they use "a form of brazilian ju jutsu" but that's all they could tell me.

They referred me to the site: http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/cgi-bin/addacad.pl

I searched for accredited schools in my area (Atlanta GA) and found only one.
http://www.alliancebjj.com/


My only problem is this guy is a third degree blackbelt that studied with one of the Gracie brothers so I'm certain it's going to be hella-expensive. Anyways that's as far as I got so far. Any recommendations would be great. I'll try www.bullshido.com later since it's blocked at my office for having bull in it's title. :-/
 
Yeah the place by me teaches Muay Thai as well as Capoeira. Unfortunately I haven't researched those very much....more reading to do!
 
My mutliple attacker stratigy is 3 parts.

1) most of the guys I hang out with are mma fighters, so if I'm at a bar, I'm ok for multiples.
2) If I'm by myself, run like hell
3) stay in the best possible shape I can be in so I can run like hell.
4) If that fails, scream for help.
5) If I was really all that worried, I can get a conceal and carry in my state. But i'm not.
 
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Cool thx for the responses! Thx a ton for the links sourceninja!

I started off here: http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Martial-Art
and http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Martial-Arts-School

Then I spent a bunch of time at wikipedia reading about histories and everything. Then I checked my local police station and they said they use "a form of brazilian ju jutsu" but that's all they could tell me.

They referred me to the site: http://www.jiu-jitsu.net/cgi-bin/addacad.pl

I searched for accredited schools in my area (Atlanta GA) and found only one.
http://www.alliancebjj.com/


My only problem is this guy is a third degree blackbelt that studied with one of the Gracie brothers so I'm certain it's going to be hella-expensive. Anyways that's as far as I got so far. Any recommendations would be great. I'll try www.bullshido.com later since it's blocked at my office for having bull in it's title. :-/
Click to expand...


You will find that tipically BJJ is very expensive. Judo is usually very very cheap. For example, I pay 85.00 a month for bjj, and 110.00 every 3 months for judo. Of course for my 85 i'm not just getting bjj. I'm getting boxing, mauy thai, and other standup training (Our instructor teaches and brings in a lot of outside guys to do seminars on striking, plus we have a very successful pro boxer teaching our standup.) I have heard good things about the school you posted though. It looks like a great place to train.
 
Originally posted by: sourceninja
Second, both judo and and bjj you will learn the same basic skills. Judo will focus more on throws, and bjj more on the ground. I currently train in both. I suffer more injurys in judo due to throws and reaps then I do in bjj. However as long as you tap and dont try to act like a tough guy you should never have horrible injurys (although accidents can happen). Its no more dangerous then anything else you can do.

Sparing is very important if you are actually going to use the skills you are learning. Without sparing you will never learn the details that make things work. Judo, bjj, etc are very sparing oriented. You do not however need to compete. I would suggest taking stock in exactly what you want out of the martial arts. Then read up on some arts, and go try some classes. Do not take what anyone says to you at face value, ask questions and if it sounds like bullcrap it probably is.

I also wanted to comment on judo. Judo took out moves that could not be practiced safely. But it is still very dangerious. You still learn how to break arms, choke people uncouncious, and throw them on their heads. That is some hard core stuff. The stuff they took out where mainly punches, kicks, and leglocks. And that stuff is found in their kata, just not used in competition.
Click to expand...

QFT. Any martial art is good to use as long as you are dedicated enough to kep learning. I stopped, but the tactics and the ideas stay with you. Some of the repetitive training stays with you. Judo is a very good one to learn. Never took, BJJ, but technically it looks the same as Judo except more ground fighting/grappling.

The trick is to encorporate the technical points of different forms of self defense and use your head when training and sparring. You will learn your weakness and strengths that way and then you can build on that. This same idea works with anything, but I have found that sports and martial arts (anything physical) seem to work best with it. No style is totally right except the one that keeps on learning new techniques.
 
Originally posted by: sourceninja
My mutliple attacker stratigy is 3 parts.

1) most of the guys I hang out with are mma fighters, so if I'm at a bar, I'm ok for multiples.
2) If I'm by myself, run like hell
3) stay in the best possible shape I can be in so I can run like hell.
4) If that fails, scream for help.
5) If I was really all that worried, I can get a conceal and carry in my state. But i'm not.
Click to expand...

QFT again. Good posts sourceninja. The best self defense is the one that is non-confrontational. Be prepared, but don't go looking for a fight.
 
From wikipedia and most of the BJJ sites that I read the two seem very similar. The fundamental difference (according to what I've read) is that BJJ teaches you how to perform permenant bodily harm to opponents if it is necessary to survive the attack while Judo does not employ these methods at all. They did, however, mention that only brown and black belt BJJ students learn these techniques. Judo focuses more on causing pain that would scare off an untrained assailant or cause a novice to tap-out but wouldn't do any permenant damage. One specific technique listed was a way to hold the spine such that you broke the cervical vertebrae. Another (reserved again for brown or black belt only) BJJ move taught you how to rip the tendons in the knee such that only a major surgery plus severe physical therapy would allow you to walk again (a technique aparently used to deal with multiple attackers, you disable their knees until you only have one left to fight).

$85/mo is a little expensive, however $110 for 3mo is very cheap especially if that gets you access to any sort of weight room. If there is a weight room included that's cheaper than signing up for Gold's Gym and taking any class there.
 
Belive me you dont tap because it hurts, you tap because if you dont, you will get something broke. Armbars ( a common judo ground submisson) will break the elbow if applied strongly. You tap because your elbow is hyperextended and if you dont tap they will break your elbow. Same with chokes, you tap because if you do not tap, you will go out. Judo does not teach heel hooks (which is what I think you are talking about when you say rip tendons). I learned hell hooks 2 weeks into my bjj training. If you dont tap you will tear tendons in your knees. The reason they do not allow heel hooks in most low rank bjj compettion and in judo competition is becuase it is hard to know when to tap. Heel hooks dont really hurt all that much, and when the do hurt bad enough to tap the damage is already done to your knee.

However any submission hold can be done with control and if the partner taps out, there will be no harm done. On the street you dont stop until you have finished the submission (Aka broke the arm, knee, ankle, elbow, shoulder, spine, or choked the guy out cold.) I doubt much of bjj will help you live though mutliple attackers, by the time you get a guy on the ground and heel hook him, his buddys are going to prented your head is a pumpkin.
 
study krav maga. from what i've read it is designed to teach a person how to go from defending to fighting in the least amount of time in the worst positions possible. it sounds interesting but there isn't any training in indianapolis
 
While there is good krav maga ( i have met a few guys who are very good) the majority of it stinks. This is not because of the style, but the fact that they seem to certify anyone under the sun to teach it. So you find a lot of schools running krav maga like it is a cardio kickboxing class and then telling people they know how to fight. Just make sure they are sparing with strking, clinch, takedowns, and ground work.
 
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
From wikipedia and most of the BJJ sites that I read the two seem very similar. The fundamental difference (according to what I've read) is that BJJ teaches you how to perform permenant bodily harm to opponents if it is necessary to survive the attack while Judo does not employ these methods at all. They did, however, mention that only brown and black belt BJJ students learn these techniques. Judo focuses more on causing pain that would scare off an untrained assailant or cause a novice to tap-out but wouldn't do any permenant damage. One specific technique listed was a way to hold the spine such that you broke the cervical vertebrae. Another (reserved again for brown or black belt only) BJJ move taught you how to rip the tendons in the knee such that only a major surgery plus severe physical therapy would allow you to walk again (a technique aparently used to deal with multiple attackers, you disable their knees until you only have one left to fight).
Click to expand...

You can easily break someones knees in a standup fight. If you have someone willing to just grapple with you, you could easily figure out methods of doing the same.

The knee is basically one directional when their feet in planted. If you learn swift kicks or tumbler tackles, you can break the knee easy if the guy is untrained.
 
Originally posted by: DaShen
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
From wikipedia and most of the BJJ sites that I read the two seem very similar. The fundamental difference (according to what I've read) is that BJJ teaches you how to perform permenant bodily harm to opponents if it is necessary to survive the attack while Judo does not employ these methods at all. They did, however, mention that only brown and black belt BJJ students learn these techniques. Judo focuses more on causing pain that would scare off an untrained assailant or cause a novice to tap-out but wouldn't do any permenant damage. One specific technique listed was a way to hold the spine such that you broke the cervical vertebrae. Another (reserved again for brown or black belt only) BJJ move taught you how to rip the tendons in the knee such that only a major surgery plus severe physical therapy would allow you to walk again (a technique aparently used to deal with multiple attackers, you disable their knees until you only have one left to fight).
Click to expand...

You can easily break someones knees in a standup fight. If you have someone willing to just grapple with you, you could easily figure out methods of doing the same.

The knee is basically one directional when their feet in planted. If you learn swift kicks or tumbler tackles, you can break the knee easy if the guy is untrained.
Click to expand...

Of course, and price will be a big factor. Especially starting out I don't want to go broke before I know if I like it or not. I was just repeating what I've read that BJJ teached deadly arts while judo does not...as much.
 
Originally posted by: Lazy8s
Of course, and price will be a big factor. Especially starting out I don't want to go broke before I know if I like it or not. I was just repeating what I've read that BJJ teached deadly arts while judo does not...as much.
Click to expand...

You usually get what you pay for in martial arts. Honestly, 85/month is ok if your instructors have many years of experience. Just wait till you see the prices of seminars that some really really good instructors charge.
 
Around here the mcdojo's start at 90.00 a month. So 85.00 is very high end. But out on the coasts 85.00 would be a good price. Plus, if you are hungry and look dedicated, those prices usually are not set in stone. Any good school should let you take a few classes for free before you make up your mind. As for whats more deadly judo or bjj, I wouldnt' worry about it. It all comes down to you in the end, not what style you have. Trust me, as a long time judoka and a short term bjj guy (just getting into MMA fights seriously the last few months). I can tell you that I had no problem making the transition from judo to bjj, and there have yet to be any deadly techniques worth mentioning. I just had to learn to a) not give up my back, and b) defend leg attacks and I was basically golden. The real deal behind bjj is to get a dominate position on the ground (of course you dont care too much how you get to the ground) and then hurt your opponent. The goal behind judo is to throw your opponent so that you land already in a dominate position on the ground and can hurt him. Either way works really well. Of course with judo there are usually no no-gi classes, so you will have to be creative to figure out how to do most judo throws on a guy without a thick shirt or jacket. Of course thats not a big transition (I do no-gi throws all the time now), but its a transition you have to make if you are worried about the street.

If price is a big issue, check the local universitys/colleges. Most will have a judo club, some even have bjj clubs now. The big uni near me has a really nice judo club, a good bjj club with a blue belt instructor (a student of my instructor), an aikido club, fencing, and a nice kendo club (man I wish I had the free time to play kendo). If I remember right they let anyone come for basically 5 bucks a class (and the price of buying your own gi). I'm actually looking to setup a judo club at my college within the next year if I can get the college to buy mats (and I need to go focus on rank, but I love competing too much to bother worrying about rank).
 
sourceninja is the man

and I would say by it's very definition that MMA > BJJ since MMA can incorporate BJJ plus other martial arts. I think most people will tell you to learn one standup and one ground technique first.

For example Wrestling and Muay Thai --- or BJJ and KickBoxing. I'd probably learn a ground defense/offense first b/c most fights will go to the ground. However taking even a few months of basic standup will put you ahead of 90% of poeple out there who just put their heads down and swing windmill punches wildly at your head.

And with the popularity of UFC and everyone talking about BJJ it seems BJJ is the most expensive by quite a bit.
 
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