bitsandchipsNo Dual and Four Cores Zen CPUs, at least initially

csbin

Senior member
Feb 4, 2013
814
4
136
#1
http://www.bitsandchips.it/english/...al-and-four-cores-zen-cpus-at-least-initially



According to our sources, AMD will produce just the 8 “Zen” Cores Die, at least initially. This strategy will save a lot of money, because AMD has just to design a single Die. From this single Die, AMD will be able to commercialize 8 cores and 6 cores Zen CPUs in the retail market. Also, in case of bad yields, OEMs/ODMs can use 4 cores Zen CPUs. So, no dual core Zen CPUs.


AMD will commercialize Bristol Ridge APUs with 2 and 4 x64 cores as entry level CPUs. AMD want to attack Intel's leadership in High End CPU market, and to accomplish this goal have to launch a massive attack.
 
Feb 25, 2011
16,085
40
126
#2
Well, go big or go home, I guess.

If they can afford to sell a harvested 4/6 core die for a competitive price, more power to them.

I wonder what the necessary demand and cost/benefit would be for designing a separate quad-core die for the lower-end market?
 
Feb 5, 2006
32,844
69
126
#3
Then Intel can underprice them at the low end while maintaining decent gross margins. But when you are poor like AMD, you have to make choices, and this one is justifiable.
 

nerp

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,805
1
91
#4
Dual core Zen would be lukewarm in the market anyway, so this is a smart decision. If anything, it's probably the only decision they can afford.
 

railven

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2010
6,297
14
126
#5
Isn't this something that sort of bit them in the rear a few years back? They were taking healthy 4-core Phenom IIs to cover demand for 2/3-Core SKUs?

There was even a viral marketing pitch of buying 2/3-Core chips and unlocking the 3/4 cores. Hell, even I partook and got the GF a Phenom II X2-something and unlocked it to X4 with no issues.

EDIT:
Here is the ATF Article on it (which is most likely where I first heard of it):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2927
 

Blitzvogel

Platinum Member
Oct 17, 2010
2,012
0
81
#6
Standing out at the top end certainly has merits, and AMD likely doesn't want to confuse uninformed non-computer literate customers who might not perceive that a quad-core Zen is going to be more capable than an "octo-core" FX processor.

The top end needs some excitement to challenge Haswell-E, driving performance forward, and prices down. I wouldn't mind having an extra 4 cores for on-the-fly H.264 encoding when I record my games as opposed to the many other options.
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,000
112
126
#7
Doesn't make too much sense to me. That is going to be a relatively small market, and it leaves the big market open for Intel.

Won't they have plenty of failed 8 core chips to become 4 and 6 core chips anyway?
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,000
112
126
#8
I would release the 4 core chips first. If the performance is good, it will just be priming the pump for buyers to get the 6 and 8 core chips. Buyers will be chomping at the bit if the 4 core is a good buy.

The dual cores can be let out at any time, really.
 

Mercennarius

Senior member
Oct 28, 2015
466
0
46
#9
Why would anyone buy a dual core chip in 2016 anyway? Quad core is the new minimum for new PC builds.
 
Oct 10, 1999
11,915
0
76
#10
Isn't this something that sort of bit them in the rear a few years back? They were taking healthy 4-core Phenom IIs to cover demand for 2/3-Core SKUs?

There was even a viral marketing pitch of buying 2/3-Core chips and unlocking the 3/4 cores. Hell, even I partook and got the GF a Phenom II X2-something and unlocked it to X4 with no issues.

EDIT:
Here is the ATF Article on it (which is most likely where I first heard of it):
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2927
You could create a new die that's a dual-core Phenom II, but that's expensive and pulls engineers away from more exciting projects like Bulldozer.
Oops…
 
Feb 2, 2009
12,765
72
126
#11
No need for dual and quad ZEN HEDT SKUs, those will be addressed by BristolRidge in 2016 and ZEN APUs in 2017.
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,000
112
126
#13
No need for dual and quad ZEN HEDT SKUs, those will be addressed by BristolRidge in 2016 and ZEN APUs in 2017.
I'm confused.

Is 8C Zen HEDT or just DT?

I thought AMD was bringing more threads to the masses?

AMD already has the idea of low cost 8 thread chips out there with FX.

Now are they going to call 8C HEDT?
 

Magic Carpet

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2011
3,107
0
81
#14
No need for dual and quad ZEN HEDT SKUs, those will be addressed by BristolRidge in 2016 and ZEN APUs in 2017.
So will we see anything bigger than an 8T CPU from AMD later this year/early the next?
 

USER8000

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2012
1,489
2
136
#16
Zen won't have an onboard graphics chip,so that is a decent amount of die area saved.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,387
40
126
#17
One advantage of Zen is that it is *not* on a separate platform like intel HEDT. So it doesnt really matter what they call it if the performance is good. Unfortunately, if you start with the 8 core, it automatically rules out upgrades from lower core count cpus.

That said, it will be a very limited market initially, 8 cores with no IGP. Will be pretty much limited to enthusiasts like on this forum and gaming PC builders like cyberpower and the boutique builders if the performance is good enough. But I do agree, the real threat to intel is Zen apus if the cpu performance is good enough and they can integrate HBM at a reasonable cost.

BTW, in general, I still dont buy the "quad is the minimum" for general users. Maybe 4 threads, but I dont think 4 true cores. Technically that rules out the vast majority of laptops, which are more popular than desktops now. And I think a Haswell or Skylake i3 is more than sufficient for the general user, and even for the light gamer.
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,000
112
126
#19
One advantage of Zen is that it is *not* on a separate platform like intel HEDT. So it doesnt really matter what they call it if the performance is good. Unfortunately, if you start with the 8 core, it automatically rules out upgrades from lower core count cpus.

That said, it will be a very limited market initially, 8 cores with no IGP. Will be pretty much limited to enthusiasts like on this forum and gaming PC builders like cyberpower and the boutique builders if the performance is good enough. But I do agree, the real threat to intel is Zen apus if the cpu performance is good enough and they can integrate HBM at a reasonable cost.

BTW, in general, I still dont buy the "quad is the minimum" for general users. Maybe 4 threads, but I dont think 4 true cores. Technically that rules out the vast majority of laptops, which are more popular than desktops now. And I think a Haswell or Skylake i3 is more than sufficient for the general user, and even for the light gamer.
We could have the same situation that we had with AM3(+). Same socket, but some boards did not support the top end chip power requirements. Some barely supported the 125W chips, I think?

I think it makes some sense to have HEDT separated from the rest. There is a market for top end systems, and people pay more for it. People like to be elite. :)

Mfgs can make a little more money with the HEDT boards, too.
 
Feb 2, 2009
12,765
72
126
#20
I'm confused.

Is 8C Zen HEDT or just DT?

I thought AMD was bringing more threads to the masses?

AMD already has the idea of low cost 8 thread chips out there with FX.

Now are they going to call 8C HEDT?
8-6 Core ZEN will not have iGPUs and thus they are targeting high-end desktops. We already have sub $400 Intel HEDT 6-core CPUs, a $300 8-Core ZEN is not mainstream.

But there will be Zen APUs.
Yes but not with 8-Cores.
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,000
112
126
#21
FX did not have APUs, and they weren't targeting HEDT. :)

I just think HEDT needs to be distinct from the rest, from a marketing standpoint.
 
Feb 2, 2009
12,765
72
126
#22
FX did not have APUs, and they weren't targeting HEDT. :)

I just think HEDT needs to be distinct from the rest, from a marketing standpoint.
They were, AM3+ was not mainstream FM1 was. Dont take AM3+ current market state 4 years after the initial release. If you had Socket 1366 today it would not be HEDT either.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,337
122
126
#23
No need for dual and quad ZEN HEDT SKUs, those will be addressed by BristolRidge in 2016 and ZEN APUs in 2017.
This.

Similar to how AM3+ was not longer intended for low end after FM1 was launched.
 
Last edited:

The Stilt

Golden Member
Dec 5, 2015
1,709
64
106
#24
FX did not have APUs, and they weren't targeting HEDT. :)
AMD FX-670K - 3.7GHz / 4.3GHz, 2CU/4T, 65W - Richland
AMD FX-770K - 3.5GHz / 3.9GHz, 2CU/4T, 65W - Kaveri
AMD FX-870K - 3.6GHz / 4.0GHz, 2CU/4T, 65W - Godavari

:)
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,000
112
126
#25
They were, AM3+ was not mainstream FM1 was. Dont take AM3+ current market state 4 years after the initial release. If you had Socket 1366 today it would not be HEDT either.
Well, I left my computer hobby behind when LGA775 was just coming out.

I built a last socket 478 system, and then lost interest in the hobby.

I didn't return to the hobby until mid 2014 when I built an FX-8320 system, and later an i3 Haswell system.

Anything in between in the computer world, I missed completely. :)
 

Similar threads



ASK THE COMMUNITY