Bitfenix Prodigy aiflow advice (with picture)

[Alex Sinov]

Hello all,

I'm in the planning stages for a new build and this time I've decided to go small, since I've had enough with big, bulky enclosures.

So I've chosen the Bitfenix Prodigy.

Since it's a small case, well thought airflow is a must. I've read some articles, including OCN Dave's Air Cooling Guide, saw some Youtube movies.

I've reached the conclusion that a positive pressure cooling scheme would be best, since it helps keep dust at bay. However, the case being so small I thought I' ask for your advice.

I've quickly sketched a picture below on how I plan to do it.
Quick spec sheet (heat generators only):
CPU: i7 4790K
GPU: Saphire Radeon r9 290 Tri-x
PSU: don't know yet, something around 750W, fan on bottom, most probably

I'm thinking to use:
Noctua NF-F12 Industrial PPC 3000 PWM 120mm for the case intake
Something with high CFM for the exhaust. It should'n need static pressure, since it's an exhaust, right?
Corsair H100i for the CPU (maybe in a push/pull?)

I tried to represent how the air would flow in the case and the way I see it would heat up. The only thing I didn't represent is the airflow from the GPU.

So, any opinions?

Thanks!

 

[Wall Street]

I would switch the direction of the radiator fans to exhaust. No reason to pump warm air into the case. You can turn the back fan around to be an intake if this results in negative air pressure, or use a lower CFM fan at the back.

Also, I would never run a 3000 rpm fan. That is overkill and will be loud if anywhere above 50% power.

 

[Alex Sinov]

I thought of that too, but the top has filters, contrary to the back of the case, which hasn't.

 

[SithSolo1]

I thought of that too, but the top has filters, contrary to the back of the case, which hasn't.

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8...-_Black_-_Steel_Aluminum_Plastic_Chassis.html

 

[Alex Sinov]

Didn't know that, Ill look for it in Romania and post an updated cooling scheme.
Thanks!

 

[Alex Sinov]

Is this a better airflow scheme?

 

[XavierMace]

Can you mount the H100i on the front?

 

[Alex Sinov]

Don't know exactly, I think it's possible. But why mount it on the front of the case?

 

[birthdaymonkey]

Using 3000 RPM fans really seems like overkill to me. The Prodigy has excellent airflow, so I think it's best to just choose a decent fan and use it for every fan placement in the case. Buying expensive Noctuas for every fan position really kills the value of the build.

I would just set the top fans to exhaust and not worry about a little dust. Your Tri-X is going to want to pull some fresh air in from the side vent anyway. You can always run the intakes at somewhar higher RPMs than the three exhaust to equalize the pressure.

 

[Valantar]

Those Noctuas are called 'industrial' for a reason. Not suited for home use, due to the 43,5 db(A) noise. Adding two together would increase that even more. Not quite hair dryer levels of noise, but still not bearable for extended periods of time. The regular NF-F12 PWM halves the airflow, but also db(a) - which would mean about 1/4 the noise. Besides, two of these will give you more than 180m3/h of airflow. That is more than enough for most cases, let alone a small ITX one like this. Some quick back-of-a-napkin math tells me 180m3/h means replacing ALL the air inside this 26.35L case slightly less than 7000 times per hour. That's without both fans working in ideal conditions, of course, with nothing impeding airflow and not counting air displaced by components. But you get the gist of what I'm saying, hopefully.

Also, you said

PSU: don't know yet, something around 750W, fan on bottom, most probably

Just to clarify: the PSU needs to be mounted with the fan downwards, as mounting it fan-up would block all airflow into it (and kill it). Thus it doesn't play into the heat or airflow measurements in any meaningful way.

 

[Valantar]

By the way, you should factor in the vented side panel of the Prodigy, next to the graphics card - especially since it's not filtered. It should aid GPU cooling, but with sufficient airflow through the case you might be better off blocking it (with regard to dust buildup and air pressure, at least).

 

[Alex Sinov]

I would just set the top fans to exhaust and not worry about a little dust. Your Tri-X is going to want to pull some fresh air in from the side vent anyway. You can always run the intakes at somewhar higher RPMs than the three exhaust to equalize the pressure.

It's an interesting thought, although I'd have to be very careful with the amount of ventialtion for the CPU, in order for it to get enough cooling.

Those Noctuas are called 'industrial' for a reason. Not suited for home use, due to the 43,5 db(A) noise. Adding two together would increase that even more.

Hmm, OK, maybe you're right. Although the db(A) doesn't increase with the number of sound emitters, it stays the same.

Just to clarify: the PSU needs to be mounted with the fan downwards, as mounting it fan-up would block all airflow into it (and kill it). Thus it doesn't play into the heat or airflow measurements in any meaningful way.

Of course, that's why I didn't include it in the drawing.

The regular NF-F12 PWM halves the airflow, but also db(a) - which would mean about 1/4 the noise. Besides, two of these will give you more than 180m3/h of airflow. That is more than enough for most cases, let alone a small ITX one like this. Some quick back-of-a-napkin math tells me 180m3/h means replacing ALL the air inside this 26.35L case slightly less than 7000 times per hour.

Point taken :thumbsup:

By the way, you should factor in the vented side panel of the Prodigy, next to the graphics card - especially since it's not filtered. It should aid GPU cooling, but with sufficient airflow through the case you might be better off blocking it (with regard to dust buildup and air pressure, at least).

I'll see about that when the system is built.

Thanks!

 

[ClockHound]

Hmm, OK, maybe you're right. Although the db(A) doesn't increase with the number of sound emitters, it stays the same.

Uh...maybe in your dream build. In the noisy real world, sources are additive unless you can arrange perfect phase cancellation. dBa or dBc it still adds up, 3dB at a time.

 

[XavierMace]

Don't know exactly, I think it's possible. But why mount it on the front of the case?

So that you're pulling cool air across the radiator rather than warm air.

 

[bonehead123]

I have a prodigy with mostly the same set up as you are looking at and I can tell you w/o a doubt that the case has excellent air flow by design.

I have my fans in the same positions as you (but NO radiator), using the stock HS&F on the cpu, a single 120mm in front pulling air in, & 1 in the back sucking air out and 2x 80mm at the top as exhaust fans. My Radeon 290 does pull some air in thru the side vent, but thats fine since it keeps itself cool too. I do NOT have any HDD cages in there either, as my 3 SSDs reside in the rack on the side panel....

I can run my machine 24 hours (ambient room temp ~60-65F) with moderate gaming, web browsing, netflixing, youtubing, word/excel/powerpoint ops etc going on and still not see either cpu or gpu temps above 45c......

YMMV

 

[Stuka87]

If you switch the radiator to exhaust your CPU temps WILL go up. Corsair advises it always be setup in an intake orientation to make sure it gets cool air.

If it can be mounted to the front of the case, put it there. Then put your front fans up top as an exhaust.

 

[birthdaymonkey]

I have a prodigy with mostly the same set up as you are looking at and I can tell you w/o a doubt that the case has excellent air flow by design.

I have my fans in the same positions as you (but NO radiator), using the stock HS&F on the cpu, a single 120mm in front pulling air in, & 1 in the back sucking air out and 2x 80mm at the top as exhaust fans. My Radeon 290 does pull some air in thru the side vent, but thats fine since it keeps itself cool too. I do NOT have any HDD cages in there either, as my 3 SSDs reside in the rack on the side panel....

I can run my machine 24 hours (ambient room temp ~60-65F) with moderate gaming, web browsing, netflixing, youtubing, word/excel/powerpoint ops etc going on and still not see either cpu or gpu temps above 45c......

YMMV

Yeah, there is really no need to plan elaborate cooling or add expensive fans to the case. The Prodigy has great airflow with just one fan up front and one in back. I've got mine set up with 2 120mm fans in front and a 140 exhaust, running an MSI GTX 760. No top exhaust at all. The fans aren't spinning more than 1000RPM and temps are always good, even with an overclocked i5 2500K and a relatively crappy CPU cooler (CM Hyper TX3, 92mm pushpin).

When you have a well designed case, adding more and faster fans results in seriously diminishing returns. For a large increase in CFM and noise, you might see a difference of a few (3-5) degrees difference in load CPU temps.

 

[Stuka87]

Yeah, there is really no need to plan elaborate cooling or add expensive fans to the case. The Prodigy has great airflow with just one fan up front and one in back. I've got mine set up with 2 120mm fans in front and a 140 exhaust, running an MSI GTX 760. No top exhaust at all. The fans aren't spinning more than 1000RPM and temps are always good, even with an overclocked i5 2500K and a relatively crappy CPU cooler (CM Hyper TX3, 92mm pushpin).

When you have a well designed case, adding more and faster fans results in seriously diminishing returns. For a large increase in CFM and noise, you might see a difference of a few (3-5) degrees difference in load CPU temps.

Since he is using an H100i as an intake, his CPU temps wont change at all by more fans. Its his GPU temps that will be affected. But same theory goes there. You just need enough airflow to get the GPU's heat out of the box.

I think putting the H100i up front with exhaust fans up top will do this.

 

[Alex Sinov]

*taking notes*

So actually the advice is to set the H100i as an intake in the front of the case?

*continuing to take notes*

 

[piasabird]

What about the power supply and drives?

What size CPU cooler will you use?

 

[Alex Sinov]

I think the images and discussion we had so far can enlighten you.

 

[aigomorla]

*taking notes*

So actually the advice is to set the H100i as an intake in the front of the case?

*continuing to take notes*

my 2 cents...

The front fans do not need to be high performance, hence u can get away with a 200mm fan and accomplish what 2 x120mm fan will do with better coverage.

The front of the prodigy was designed for a 200mm fan in the first place, so you may make use of one.

The top should be left alone with the rad mounted.
Have it pull air down, so air can also be forced to your board, keeping you ram + mosfets + NB in check.

What u had in your original model is correct.
It will keep your board cool which will kill 2 birds with one stone.

The rear fan should ALWAYS be the exhaust, if the front is an intake.
The rear as an intake serves no purpose as its too high for it to be useful to the board in anyway.

The top fan blows air to the board, washes the heat, and the rear spits it out..
Its that simple... and the 200mm up front will give u better coverage then 120x2 any day of the week, as a 200mm fan just has better coverage and more cfm at lower noise.

The only time u should ever use a performance 120mm fan is IF u have a heat sink / radiator attached to them, as other scenarios are just a big waste of money.
You can get silent using a 6 dollar low RPM yate that you would get out of a 27 dollar nocutna.

If anything I would flip the orientation of it so the tubes come straight down to the cpu instead of having to arch over.

This will keep things in the front out of cluttering way.

I think putting the H100i up front with exhaust fans up top will do this.

The top as exhaust wont be more benifical then top as intake.
Again as I stated having the TOP as an intake will force induct air to the board directly at a perpendicular manner.

This will keep everything on the board in check vs using convection to have heat rise up and the fans exhaust heat.

The prodigy is NOT a air tight or near air tight case.
There is no such thing as negative / positive air pressure in a case of this nature.
Having fans blow air directly to components is always the best route in keeping anything cool.

 

[Alex Sinov]

Thanks for the reply!

The top fan blows air to the board, washes the heat, and the rear spits it out..
Its that simple... and the 200mm up front will give u better coverage then 120x2 any day of the week, as a 200mm fan just has better coverage and more cfm at lower noise.

But how about static pressure?
And moreover, my concern is that while having the CPU fans as intakes would be better, as they would suck up cold air from the room, they would blow hot air (as it travels through the radiator) onto the board and GPU. I mean, the CPU does get 80+ deg. Celsius, especially when overclocked.

Or is that a non issue?

 

[aigomorla]

static pressure is only required again when working against a restriction.

you dont have a heat sink mounted right in front of those intake... and the HDD allow a gap large enough for air to move though.
If you were going to add a radiator up front, then you would need 120x2 fans to support the radiator.

Hence why i said you dont require a strong static pressure fan.

 

[Stuka87]

The top as exhaust wont be more benifical then top as intake.
Again as I stated having the TOP as an intake will force induct air to the board directly at a perpendicular manner.

This will keep everything on the board in check vs using convection to have heat rise up and the fans exhaust heat.

The prodigy is NOT a air tight or near air tight case.
There is no such thing as negative / positive air pressure in a case of this nature.
Having fans blow air directly to components is always the best route in keeping anything cool.

If the fans up top are set to exhaust, they are still going to pull air across the motherboard, just in the opposite direction. Some air will be pulled from the sides of the fans yes, so it may not be quite as efficient in that regard. But the fans up front are pushing air in.

Their are plenty of argument for positive, negative, and neutral pressure fan setups. Personally I like top fans to be exhaust as heat naturally will rise top the top of the case. So having intakes lower, and exhaust higher works well (In my experience).