bitcoin - investors

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
88,192
10,994
126
1B worth of Bitcoin has been retired, making the rest worth more.
 

Noid

Platinum Member
Sep 20, 2000
2,305
117
106
Who exactly is determining it's " worth " , if it can be " hacked "?
 

Noid

Platinum Member
Sep 20, 2000
2,305
117
106
I'm just trying to understand it's tangibility.
Why would someone invest VS. standard currency or minerals

How much does a bitcoin weigh, and what is it made of ? ( lol )
 

njdevilsfan87

Platinum Member
Apr 19, 2007
2,285
225
106
For anyone else still clueless on why Bitcoin is worth $15K today and still continuing to rise - here you go:


And before anyone says what's stopping the government from creating their own crypto: government or bank created/controlled crypto does not work for 3 out of 4 of these use cases (it would only work for use case #1). Now take these derived fundamental values from just a fraction of actual uses cases (5-10% as shown in the video's charts) and add in an asset that people like to hoard and $100K becomes a conservative price estimate for Bitcoin over the next decade.
 
Last edited:

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,806
49
91
www.bing.com
I'm just trying to understand it's tangibility.
Why would someone invest VS. standard currency or minerals

How much does a bitcoin weigh, and what is it made of ? ( lol )
like 99.99% of my USD is just numbers in a database somewhere. No more tangible than the numbers in the BTC ledger.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
107,747
23,817
146
like 99.99% of my USD is just numbers in a database somewhere. No more tangible than the numbers in the BTC ledger.
Not really. 100% of your 99.99% of your USD can at any time, at your desire, be withdrawn as a paper note of guarantee by the United States. ....not really making a judgement either way here, just pointing out the very real difference.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,806
49
91
www.bing.com
Not really. 100% of your 99.99% of your USD can at any time, at your desire, be withdrawn as a paper note of guarantee by the United States. ....not really making a judgement either way here, just pointing out the very real difference.
Ironically, paper cash is immensely more risky, so not sure why you even brought it up. That cash burns up, you're effed. If you take it across a border or get pulled over, you are likely also effed. If I memorize my wallet key, I can take it anywhere and it cannot be confiscated, it cannot be seized.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
88,192
10,994
126
Not really. 100% of your 99.99% of your USD can at any time, at your desire, be withdrawn as a paper note of guarantee by the United States. ....not really making a judgement either way here, just pointing out the very real difference.
images (3).jpeg
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Noid

Noid

Platinum Member
Sep 20, 2000
2,305
117
106
like 99.99% of my USD is just numbers in a database somewhere. No more tangible than the numbers in the BTC ledger.
Not really. 100% of your 99.99% of your USD can at any time, at your desire, be withdrawn as a paper note of guarantee by the United States. ....not really making a judgement either way here, just pointing out the very real difference.
Rich .... or poor ... it's nice to have cash.
( cash in hands within a day, or a wire transfer in minutes )

What is the process to convert BitCoin ?
( and how long does it take ? )

Myself, I am still " clueless ".
( as to why to invest )

The only thing I can think of .... is ... legal weed sales.
Banks can not accept this income.
 
Last edited:

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,429
126
Ironically, paper cash is immensely more risky, so not sure why you even brought it up. That cash burns up, you're effed. If you take it across a border or get pulled over, you are likely also effed. If I memorize my wallet key, I can take it anywhere and it cannot be confiscated, it cannot be seized.
Yeah, and if someone else gets that wallet key, it's gone and you have zero recourse to get it back.

Anandtech has had these debates in the Bitcoin posts before. I think that it boils down to this... if you were going to have a crazy weekend in Vegas, which would you rather have: $10,000 cash, or $10,000 in Bitcoin? The answer is pretty obvious, most people going to take the cash because most businesses still don't take Bitcoin without requiring a cash conversion first.

Those few people who said that they want to get the hell of Vegas and "HODL" the Bitcoin also show the other side of the problem... The people who want Bitcoin aren't actually spending it. Bitcoin was designed to be a currency, but it is really more of a store of wealth now. It kinda failed as a currency... the transaction times are slow, its transaction fees are high, and there are other more efficient crypto alternatives out there now.
 

ponyo

Lifer
Feb 14, 2002
19,687
2,794
126
For the longest time I didn't understand the appeal of Bitcoin. But I do now, and I think it's smart of anyone with wealth to buy and hold Bitcoin with small percentage of their portfolio. Buy it and forget you even own it. Put the wallet away in bank safe deposit box and forget you even have it. Just like physical gold. Bitcoin is the digital gold.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,806
49
91
www.bing.com
Yeah, and if someone else gets that wallet key, it's gone and you have zero recourse to get it back.
So the same as cash? Except it's a lot easier to take cash from someone that it is to extract a password.

Anandtech has had these debates in the Bitcoin posts before. I think that it boils down to this... if you were going to have a crazy weekend in Vegas, which would you rather have: $10,000 cash, or $10,000 in Bitcoin?

The answer is pretty obvious, most people going to take the cash because most businesses still don't take Bitcoin without requiring a cash conversion first.
I guess it's obvious if you are totally uninformed? Every vegas casino will happily take your bitcoin for both hotel bills and chips, and have for a few years now. There are bitcoin capable ATMs all over the strip.

Those few people who said that they want to get the hell of Vegas and "HODL" the Bitcoin also show the other side of the problem... The people who want Bitcoin aren't actually spending it. Bitcoin was designed to be a currency, but it is really more of a store of wealth now. It kinda failed as a currency... the transaction times are slow, its transaction fees are high, and there are other more efficient crypto alternatives out there now.
It's currently acting more like the USD that the majority of the world sees: a reserve currency, not a day to day currency. That's why both countries and corps alike are converting cash holdings to BTC
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,806
49
91
www.bing.com
For the longest time I didn't understand the appeal of Bitcoin. But I do now, and I think it's smart of anyone with wealth to buy and hold Bitcoin with small percentage of their portfolio. Buy it and forget you even own it. Put the wallet away in bank safe deposit box and forget you even have it. Just like physical gold. Bitcoin is the digital gold.
my target is 2% of my portfolio. currently at 1.75, with very little invested. Been DCAing for about 4 years now, a current annual return rate of 110%
 

Noid

Platinum Member
Sep 20, 2000
2,305
117
106
Put the wallet away in bank safe deposit box and forget you even have it.
How much does a " wallet " weigh, and what is it made of ?

... is it not vulnerable to electrostatic shock ? heat or water ?
( tidal wave , gamma burst , volcano ... drop it in the toilet.... etc )

[ it's not investing, it's just dumb speculation ]
 
Last edited:

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,806
49
91
www.bing.com
How much does a " wallet " weigh, and what is it made of ?
The same as your bank account, whatever that is. You could say it is "made of" math. Your wallet address is defined in a global, open-source, decentralized ledger. Your wallet is only accessible using a passphrase or key that you create.

... is it not vulnerable to electrostatic shock ? heat or water ?
( tidal wave , gamma burst , volcano ... drop it in the toilet.... etc )
Some people keep them in pure digital form (some sort of magnetic storage) Some people write them on paper. Some people engrave their keys into stainless steel. Totally up to you.
 
Last edited:

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,429
126
Apparently strippers and slot machines in Vegas take crypto now. I learn something new every day 🙂
 

drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,314
108
116
Anyone heard talk of making bitcoin less resource intensive? I've seen some say 620 kwh for a single transaction. That could power a house for a month. Would it lead to another hard fork?
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,429
126
Anyone heard talk of making bitcoin less resource intensive? I've seen some say 620 kwh for a single transaction. That could power a house for a month. Would it lead to another hard fork?
The Bitcoin consensus protocol is basically controlled by a handful of Chinese mining conglomerates now. They don't want to move from Proof Of Work to Proof Of Stake like other cryptocurrencies are doing, because it would hurt their profits.

Bitcoin has already forked a few times in the past, though, so I guess that anything is possible. I really struggle to figure out how anyone who supports green technology can also support something as environmentally toxic as Bitcoin mining, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BudAshes

ASK THE COMMUNITY