Bit of a Slap . .

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm one of those horrible nationalists who believes our government should not be doing a single dime of business with foreign companies. America should be spending American tax dollars in America, buying American made products, made by American workers who spend their American money in America...unfortunately, buying Chinese made goods...it doesn't matter if the plane is made by a company in a NATO country, nor if they build a plant in Bum-Fuck Alabama where workers may earn $9.00/hour...the government should NOT be buying foreign made...IMO, it's UN-AMERICAN!

I assume you're joking...?

I'm all about bringing jobs back to America, but your plan is idiotic for many, many reasons.

GAWD FORBID that a government actually support the workers in its own country...I don't care if there is a difference in price, our government should not be buying airplanes, uniforms, widgets, doodads, or doohickeys from any manufacturer outside the USA.
That however, is NOT license for the companies to steal, as apparently the Boeing contract seems to have been...THAT kind of activity should also carry SEVERE penalties.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm one of those horrible nationalists who believes our government should not be doing a single dime of business with foreign companies. America should be spending American tax dollars in America, buying American made products, made by American workers who spend their American money in America...unfortunately, buying Chinese made goods...it doesn't matter if the plane is made by a company in a NATO country, nor if they build a plant in Bum-Fuck Alabama where workers may earn $9.00/hour...the government should NOT be buying foreign made...IMO, it's UN-AMERICAN!

I assume you're joking...?

I'm all about bringing jobs back to America, but your plan is idiotic for many, many reasons.

GAWD FORBID that a government actually support the workers in its own country...I don't care if there is a difference in price, our government should not be buying airplanes, uniforms, widgets, doodads, or doohickeys from any manufacturer outside the USA.
That however, is NOT license for the companies to steal, as apparently the Boeing contract seems to have been...THAT kind of activity should also carry SEVERE penalties.

If these aircraft were being assembled outside the US you'd have a case, but they aren't. Boeing farms out a lot of their components and major assemblies to other nations/companies then ships it all back to WA for final assembly.

Granted I would prefer the money went to a US based company. Provided Airbus retains the contract they better STFU about US defense contracts being subsidies to Boeing. Otherwise we should really push home about direct European government subsides and bailouts when Airbus does a "Whoopsies, misjudged the market" and is billions in the red necessitating saving again.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: BoomerD

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'm one of those horrible nationalists who believes our government should not be doing a single dime of business with foreign companies. America should be spending American tax dollars in America, buying American made products, made by American workers who spend their American money in America...unfortunately, buying Chinese made goods...it doesn't matter if the plane is made by a company in a NATO country, nor if they build a plant in Bum-Fuck Alabama where workers may earn $9.00/hour...the government should NOT be buying foreign made...IMO, it's UN-AMERICAN!

I assume you're joking...?

I'm all about bringing jobs back to America, but your plan is idiotic for many, many reasons.

GAWD FORBID that a government actually support the workers in its own country...I don't care if there is a difference in price, our government should not be buying airplanes, uniforms, widgets, doodads, or doohickeys from any manufacturer outside the USA.
That however, is NOT license for the companies to steal, as apparently the Boeing contract seems to have been...THAT kind of activity should also carry SEVERE penalties.

I'd rather see the government buying Citroens than Fords, after what Ford did during WWII

 

[John P]

If these aircraft were being assembled outside the US you'd have a case, but they aren't. Boeing farms out a lot of their components and major assemblies to other nations/companies then ships it all back to WA for final assembly.

Who do you think BUYS these jets Boeing makes? The vast majority are bought by foreign airlines. Do you think for one second you can have a business model set up to build every single component in the USA and then sell it to a foreign market? The trick is to figure out how big a piece of the pie you can farm out vs how many orders you're gonna get. It's just a tad more complicated than ya'll are making it out to be..... lots of ignorance being shown on both sides of the argument.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: John P

If these aircraft were being assembled outside the US you'd have a case, but they aren't. Boeing farms out a lot of their components and major assemblies to other nations/companies then ships it all back to WA for final assembly.

Who do you think BUYS these jets Boeing makes? The vast majority are bought by foreign airlines. Do you think for one second you can have a business model set up to build every single component in the USA and then sell it to a foreign market? The trick is to figure out how big a piece of the pie you can farm out vs how many orders you're gonna get. It's just a tad more complicated than ya'll are making it out to be..... lots of ignorance being shown on both sides of the argument.

I don't know why you are putting words in my mouth because I proposed no such thing. Boeing's model is working and is now being imitated by Airbus who because of exchange rates now has to go one better and put up a final assembly line here to compete for commercial sales. In the case of the Air Force contract final assembly should be in the US as a condition of being awarded. If Airbus doesn't like that they should have withdrawn. This is a very common requirement for almost any foreign company hawking equipment to the US armed forces.

Without getting into some massive dissertation about supply chain and spreading risk to independent subcontractors I think I was as clear as I could be.

 

[sunzt]

Northrop Grumman, an American company, is Prime.

Northrop Grumman's employees will have a great program to work on and provide subcontracts to many other companies, many of which are American.

Northrop Grumman, an American company, will integrate all the classified and cool military hardware.

USAF benefits from a better design

US military benefits from a better USAF tanker

US workers benefit from 10's of thousands of more jobs and opportunities

US allies benefit from US investment

US allies benefit from jobs and opportunities


Conclusion: Win-win!

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: sunzt
Northrop Grumman, an American company, is Prime.

Northrop Grumman's employees will have a great program to work on and provide subcontracts to many other companies, many of which are American.

Northrop Grumman, an American company, will integrate all the classified and cool military hardware.

USAF benefits from a better design

US military benefits from a better USAF tanker

US workers benefit from 10's of thousands of more jobs and opportunities

US allies benefit from US investment

US allies benefit from jobs and opportunities


Conclusion: Win-win!

When a prime is not bending metal, it is just a $$ conduit to those that do so and raking off a percentage.

If the aircraft is built overseas and flown to the US for a final workup/installation of coponents, that does not qualify as bending metal.

Northrup is a figurehead for Airbus to justify allowing the contract to be bid and not complaining about it being a non-American company that won the order.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Common Courtesy

Originally posted by: sunzt
Northrop Grumman, an American company, is Prime.

Northrop Grumman's employees will have a great program to work on and provide subcontracts to many other companies, many of which are American.

Northrop Grumman, an American company, will integrate all the classified and cool military hardware.

USAF benefits from a better design

US military benefits from a better USAF tanker

US workers benefit from 10's of thousands of more jobs and opportunities

US allies benefit from US investment

US allies benefit from jobs and opportunities


Conclusion: Win-win!

When a prime is not bending metal, it is just a $$ conduit to those that do so and raking off a percentage.

If the aircraft is built overseas and flown to the US for a final workup/installation of coponents, that does not qualify as bending metal.

Northrup is a figurehead for Airbus to justify allowing the contract to be bid and not complaining about it being a non-American company that won the order.

The final assembly plant will be in Alabama and there is a 60% American parts sources required for the contract (IIRC). One of the main objectives of this exercise is for EADS to establish assembly in the US since our costs are lower than their European facilities in order to compete with Boeing. Once the beachhead is established they will likely start other lines when possible.

Airbus will be shipping in parts from all over the US and World to this Alabama plant much as Boeing does on the 787. Hell, Boeing is flying in the fuselage sections from Japan, Italy, and South Carolina in specially modified 747s.

 

[PottedMeat]

Anybody know if this is how they work the deal?

German A330 frames or Mobile Alabama A330 frames from EADS -> Grumman for USAF tanker conversion?

So once EADS builds a factory for A330s in Alabama they move on to make something else?