Bioware details their writing process

[Axon]

 

[Red Hawk]

"You turned my fans against me!"

"You have done that yourself!"

 

[Axon]

okay, I'm done.

 

[Dumac]

Mass Effect 2 wasn't terribly original, but it wasn't BioWare's typical formula; that is, explore various areas in order to gather Macguffins (Star Maps in KotOR, military aid in Dragon Age Origins, or...plot stuff...in Mass Effect). One could say that squad members themselves are Macguffins in ME2, but they don't really drive the plot forward (except for Mordin) and you don't really explore areas to find them, you go on specific missions.

Exactly, its the same thing. Travel to x, y, and z to collect aid, yet before you get the aid you have to solve the local situation at hand. ME2 didn't feel any different to me. It was like DA:O btu instead of races you were collecting party members (the A team) and without the final climactic battle because the plot wasn't really forwaded at all in ME2.

As to the story of DAII, it wasn't BioWare's best, but it was still good IMO. The Qunari arc is legitimately great.

Sorry, but the story was not good IMO. They take away player choice in order to try to build a background for the character and a sense of progression, yet all throughout the story you are still doing the same fetch quest stuff. Nothing actually changes when you go from poor and weak to rich and powerful.

And the Quanari arc was beyond disappointing, lacking any real choice at all. Where is the option to side with the Quanari?

 

[CottonRabbit]

Sorry, but the story was not good IMO. They take away player choice in order to try to build a background for the character and a sense of progression, yet all throughout the story you are still doing the same fetch quest stuff. Nothing actually changes when you go from poor and weak to rich and powerful.

And the Quanari arc was beyond disappointing, lacking any real choice at all. Where is the option to side with the Quanari?

I bet if they had the types of choices that some players want, other players would accuse Bioware for cheapening the story and selling out to please the fans.

 

[Red Hawk]

Exactly, its the same thing. Travel to x, y, and z to collect aid, yet before you get the aid you have to solve the local situation at hand. ME2 didn't feel any different to me. It was like DA:O btu instead of races you were collecting party members (the A team) and without the final climactic battle because the plot wasn't really forwaded at all in ME2.

Except that's not the plot. That's the game's structure. The actual plot is the Illusive Man giving you leads on ways to investigate the Collectors. That's different than the structure of Knights of the Old Republic, where the Star Maps are directly needed to advance the plot, both structurally and narratively. I'd actually say gathering forces in Dragon Age has less to do with the plot, since ultimately you don't need the elves, dwarves, or mages for any main plot-related matter. In this sense, Mass Effect 2's squad members matter more to the plot, since you actually get to use them for specific things in the final mission.

And IMO the climax of ME2 is better built up and executed than the climax of ME1.

 

[Dumac]

I bet if they had the types of choices that some players want, other players would accuse Bioware for cheapening the story and selling out to please the fans.

No, they wouldn't, because that would make no sense. Choice is what Bioware became famous for, and you had little choice throughout all of DA2.

Except that's not the plot. That's the game's structure. The actual plot is the Illusive Man giving you leads on ways to investigate the Collectors. That's different than the structure of Knights of the Old Republic, where the Star Maps are directly needed to advance the plot, both structurally and narratively. I'd actually say gathering forces in Dragon Age has less to do with the plot, since ultimately you don't need the elves, dwarves, or mages for any main plot-related matter. In this sense, Mass Effect 2's squad members matter more to the plot, since you actually get to use them for specific things in the final mission.

And IMO the climax of ME2 is better built up and executed than the climax of ME1.

It is more than the structure; it becomes the plot. The plot is the events that make up the story, and most of the events revolve around your party members. The Illusive Man leads on the collectors are just excuses to do something - the party is where the story really takes place. I mean, I don't even remember any of the leads, yet I remember the party missions and conversation.

The game was all about assembling a dream team, with a short anticlimatic mission after and than a realization of "oh we are back to the end of ME1".

There was hardly any plot outside of that.

 

[exar333]

There is a reason the 'cliche' story is used for RPGs. The idea of a good RPG is that YOU (the player) choose your path. You generally have to have a generic background to allow for the player to pick any path. It would be 'odd' for a barbarian berserker, for example, to start out at a mage's school. You could certainly do it, but you know what I mean...

The bigger factor is the overall environment, characters, and story along the way. THAT is what makes the game. Meaningful choices, relationships, memorable characters (think Minsc or HK-47), great story, and fantastic gameplay make the game a classic. The origins and cliches are really not important, it's the player experience and gameplay. Re-playability is also important too; that is where the BG/NWN stands head-and-shoulders above the rest here IMHO.