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Billionaires are leaving NYC and in turn NYC lost over $300b in revenue.

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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
30,933
9,717
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Yea, both conserative and liberal news outlets all skew the numbers. They don't state the actual truth, but embellish it.
IMO, right wing sites are much more likely to misrepresent even the most trivial of issues and numbers. There are definitely left wing sites to be wary of as well. I tend to read a few different sites to get a good picture of what the facts.
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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Did you read James Altucher's blog post? It made the rounds on Facebook in the groups of New Yorkers considering leaving that's for sure. It's got a lot of garbage in it. He basically says that going forward everything is going to be remote, all the time, for literally everything. All schooling, jobs, even all entertainment. It's fucking asinine. He bases his argument on that humans, post Covid, will no longer want to congregate together for almost anything they used to before because they can do it on the internet now. He's an attention seeking troll.
Do you not agree that after COVID remote working full-time is going to skyrocket?

The previous hesitations were that people at home would be unproductive - but this whole situation has clearly proven that to be incorrect.

There was also previously questionable IT hesitation because they weren't sure that infrastructure could handle that many people not being on-site.


Companies are going to start evaluating how much they pay to rent a few floors of expensive ass downtown skyrises and are going to quickly find it isn't worth it in the slightest.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
7,168
2,347
136
I don't know if anyone has seen the argument James Altucher got into with Seinfeld. Basically, Seinfeld called James an idiot. James makes the point that NYC is going to pot because the wealthy are leaving, severe decrease in tax revenue, and a large group of essential workers are going to be cut. He seems to hate De Blasio as well. It is Fox Business, so they are going to push their agenda.

Post as many videos as you like.
The reality is still the same.

NY is extremely resilient
Well I looked up how many billionaires are in NYC. There are only 100.

TBH, I don't know any that have left NYC. I guess I was reacting to the heading. Instead of focusing on billionaires, we should put the focus on the millionaires. $1m or more. There are way more of these people, and my guess is many are leaving NYC. Why would Cuomo make the plea for those people to come back? His message wasn't directed at the middle class.
Millionaires?
Sure. Include Millionaires.
They are a dime a fucking dozen in NYC.
One moves out. 20 take their place.
While those 20 are get comfy...another 100 become millionaires.

Middle Class?
Have you never been to NYC?
For every person that leaves for cheaper shittier states 1000 people fight over the spot they left.

All the pandemic related issues are doing is creating opportunities for those who get shit done.
Restaurants closing in NYC means new restaurants coming soon.
Businesses closing means new businesses.

Instead of listening to assholes on youtube, hit a library.
Dig through historical editions of NYT.
 
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MrSquished

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2013
7,559
2,448
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Lol I've seen a lot of these kind of takes. While I think remote work will be more accepted to some degree I think the opposite is going to be true of everything else.
I exaggerated a bit but he does say that now that we all have lots of internet bandwidth, it's all going to change so drastically that NYC will not be able to continue. Facebook just leased 700K+ square feet in midown west of office space in Manhattan. They are betting on in person work coming back at a strong level, I'm sure with some changes. But I think I trust one of the most successful companies in planetary history over a blogger's doom and gloom instincts. People are social creatures. Work fulfills a lot of that. Plus collaboration is different in person vs remote. If you read about Apple's campus it's specifically designed to encourage both purposeful and accidental collaboration, that's how valuable the in-person experience is. College kids? You think they don't want to go to school in person? That's half the total experience. Not to mention it's just not nearly as effective remotely vs in person. Etc...
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,157
8,464
136
I exaggerated a bit but he does say that now that we all have lots of internet bandwidth, it's all going to change so drastically that NYC will not be able to continue. Facebook just leased 700K+ square feet in midown west of office space in Manhattan. They are betting on in person work coming back at a strong level, I'm sure with some changes. But I think I trust one of the most successful companies in planetary history over a blogger's doom and gloom instincts. People are social creatures. Work fulfills a lot of that. Plus collaboration is different in person vs remote. If you read about Apple's campus it's specifically designed to encourage both purposeful and accidental collaboration, that's how valuable the in-person experience is. College kids? You think they don't want to go to school in person? That's half the total experience. Not to mention it's just not nearly as effective remotely vs in person. Etc...
Yeah my husband works for a big tech co and the desire to get back into their campuses is palpable. I think longer term at least partial WFH will be much more accepted but I really doubt full remote will become close to the norm. Events like these don't kill cities as history amply attests.
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
19,263
10,071
136
Yeah my husband works for a big tech co and the desire to get back into their campuses is palpable. I think longer term at least partial WFH will be much more accepted but I really doubt full remote will become close to the norm. Events like these don't kill cities as history amply attests.
I work for a not so big tech company and there are many types of collaboration that just work better in person.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,157
8,464
136
I work for a not so big tech company and there are many types of collaboration that just work better in person.
Yeah a friend of ours works for a startup and that's for sure a theme. I think we need to be cautious about declarations everything has changed and will never go back.
 

MrSquished

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2013
7,559
2,448
136
Do you not agree that after COVID remote working full-time is going to skyrocket?

The previous hesitations were that people at home would be unproductive - but this whole situation has clearly proven that to be incorrect.

There was also previously questionable IT hesitation because they weren't sure that infrastructure could handle that many people not being on-site.


Companies are going to start evaluating how much they pay to rent a few floors of expensive ass downtown skyrises and are going to quickly find it isn't worth it in the slightest.
No I don't think full time work from home will skyrocket like some are predicting. Ditto with remote schooling. I think WFH will be integrated more into the work-week, but the cracks are starting to show in full time remote work. Maybe companies like Facebook are totally wrong. That's possible. I don't think a lot of people are built to be home all the time. Work is also social, collaborative and most humans like being around different humans.




Let me know when zoom calls can foster this type of atmosphere:

 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
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Do you not agree that after COVID remote working full-time is going to skyrocket?

The previous hesitations were that people at home would be unproductive - but this whole situation has clearly proven that to be incorrect.

There was also previously questionable IT hesitation because they weren't sure that infrastructure could handle that many people not being on-site.


Companies are going to start evaluating how much they pay to rent a few floors of expensive ass downtown skyrises and are going to quickly find it isn't worth it in the slightest.
So if it’s only about work why wouldn’t those skyrises in midtown just convert to condos?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
Yeah a friend of ours works for a startup and that's for sure a theme. I think we need to be cautious about declarations everything has changed and will never go back.
Yes I think people will look back in five years and remark on how little changed, actually.
 
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Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,594
471
126
Guys, the rich pay a way larger percentage of taxes than everyone else so long as you only count this one very specific tax and ignore all the others.

I am very smart.
Don't they also make a way larger percentage of money than everyone else? Funny how tax percentages work... multiply it by a far bigger number, and the result is still far bigger... who woulda thought? :p

(Before anyone says anything... yes, I am purposefully ignoring tax brackets for the prior remarks. But of course, we're also ignoring things like how capital gains are taxed at nearly half the rate.)

I really don't understand how some people seem to enjoy kicking the little guy (the low class, low wage earners). We live in a service economy that loves to use it and has reached an overall reliance upon it. However, people still choose to berate those that actually work in it. "Got enough time to complain? How about you get a real job! ...but not before you bag my groceries!!!"
 
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Nov 8, 2012
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No I don't think full time work from home will skyrocket like some are predicting. Ditto with remote schooling. I think WFH will be integrated more into the work-week, but the cracks are starting to show in full time remote work. Maybe companies like Facebook are totally wrong. That's possible. I don't think a lot of people are built to be home all the time. Work is also social, collaborative and most humans like being around different humans.




Let me know when zoom calls can foster this type of atmosphere:

Schooling is completely different - and I agree.

I can have discussions on work topics easily in Skype meetings. But most people can't stare at a boring screen with tons of distractions for 1-2 hours and your entire job is to listen and take notes.


Ultimately based on your article (particularly the WSJ one) - I can agree that certain things that require more deep collaboration across multiple teams of people can benefit from being on-site together.

The problem is - that isn't the case for the majority of a workforce. Majority of jobs interact with a handful of people - and the work isn't so much dependent upon other people.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,658
4,481
126
Fast forward 5 years when Republicans are complaining they lost Texas and Georgia because most of the New York and California transplants turned out to be liberal young people who want cheaper housing for their families.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
70,128
18,900
136
Don't they also make a way larger percentage of money than everyone else? Funny how tax percentages work... multiply it by a far bigger number, and the result is still far bigger... who woulda thought? :p

(Before anyone says anything... yes, I am purposefully ignoring tax brackets for the prior remarks. But of course, we're also ignoring things like how capital gains are taxed at nearly half the rate.)

I really don't understand how some people seem to enjoy kicking the little guy (the low class, low wage earners). We live in a service economy that loves to use it and has reached an overall reliance upon it. However, people still choose to berate those that actually work in it. "Got enough time to complain? How about you get a real job! ...but not before you bag my groceries!!!"
Yes, I agree!

That's my point, when you look at their percentage of taxes paid as compared to their percentage of national income as of last time I checked they still do pay a little higher percentage but it's really not very large.

This is frequently ignored by the tHe RiCh pAy AlL tHe TaXEs people because it's super inconvenient for their point. If we actually evened things out on the federal level the way they want that would mean low income people would pay a HIGHER percentage of their income in taxes than the rich.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,432
1,808
126
The 60s and 70s witnessed an urban to suburban shift, and the tech boom saw people drawn back to the amenities of urban living. Will the pandemic cause a lasting shift back to the suburbs? Too soon to say.

What is apparent is that NYC’s budget is going to take a broadside due to the loss of revenues and tourism, and I expect you will see brands start to cut down on their flagship stores, which serve more of a marketing than revenue generating function given the leasing costs.
 

MrSquished

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2013
7,559
2,448
136
The 60s and 70s witnessed an urban to suburban shift, and the tech boom saw people drawn back to the amenities of urban living. Will the pandemic cause a lasting shift back to the suburbs? Too soon to say.

What is apparent is that NYC’s budget is going to take a broadside due to the loss of revenues and tourism, and I expect you will see brands start to cut down on their flagship stores, which serve more of a marketing than revenue generating function given the leasing costs.
Cities and states are going to be smacked all around the country. Trump and company don't want the federal government to help bail them out, they see this as a purely blue vs red issue and want to see the cities go down in flames. Even though most cities are blue, and they drive most of the economy's engine, who cares, the base eats this shit up.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Why someone who doesn’t live in NYC or do business with Billionaires in NYC cares about this is beyond my understanding.

Since I posted here is my general thought. Uber wealthy seem to be more about keeping their excessive wealth that never could be spent than actually helping out wether that is paying taxes or donating or even generating good jobs. I would be perfectly comfortable losing those types.
 
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Reactions: ivwshane
Nov 8, 2012
17,643
3,411
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The 60s and 70s witnessed an urban to suburban shift, and the tech boom saw people drawn back to the amenities of urban living. Will the pandemic cause a lasting shift back to the suburbs? Too soon to say.

What is apparent is that NYC’s budget is going to take a broadside due to the loss of revenues and tourism, and I expect you will see brands start to cut down on their flagship stores, which serve more of a marketing than revenue generating function given the leasing costs.

Wut? People were never drawn back to urban living. Stupid hipsters wanted to - then when they actually started to make money, have a family, etc... they all did the same thing as previous generations... gtfo of their shitty downtown-ish apartment and buy a home in the 'burbs.

This hasn't changed anything recently.


.
 

MrSquished

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2013
7,559
2,448
136
Wut? People were never drawn back to urban living. Stupid hipsters wanted to - then when they actually started to make money, have a family, etc... they all did the same thing as previous generations... gtfo of their shitty downtown-ish apartment and buy a home in the 'burbs.

This hasn't changed anything recently.


.
The tech boom started around 1995 and lasted until the bubble burst 5 years later. You are posting an article from 2019 about 2018.
 
Nov 8, 2012
17,643
3,411
126
The tech boom started around 1995 and lasted until the bubble burst 5 years later. You are posting an article from 201 about 2018.
"Tech boom" I tend to refer to the likes of Napster, MySpace, Facebook, Netflix, Apple, etc.... The time period you're referring to is Dot com bust. Maybe I'm mistaken though?

Regardless, as a kid that grew up in the 90's - I definitely don't recall any push or drive to go back to urban living. Our suburbs expanded like crazy throughout my early years.
 
Feb 4, 2009
27,898
8,371
136
"Tech boom" I tend to refer to the likes of Napster, MySpace, Facebook, Netflix, Apple, etc.... The time period you're referring to is Dot com bust. Maybe I'm mistaken though?

Regardless, as a kid that grew up in the 90's - I definitely don't recall any push or drive to go back to urban living. Our suburbs expanded like crazy throughout my early years.
Bottom part is a local thing. WhenI was a young man in the 90s many people I knew wanted to live in the Boston or NYC.
Not all but more than a few.
Not saying what you stated is incorrect just saying it depends where you lived and what was considered a realistic move.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
35,157
8,464
136
Regardless, as a kid that grew up in the 90's - I definitely don't recall any push or drive to go back to urban living. Our suburbs expanded like crazy throughout my early years.
IIRC the south has seen the slowest downtown population growth since 1980 out of any region. The phenomenon is very real in Chicago where the area around the central business district went from under 20K to over 110K between 1980 and 2018. Companies moved in from the burbs, relocated from other cities, or opened secondary offices.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,658
4,481
126
The 60s and 70s witnessed an urban to suburban shift, and the tech boom saw people drawn back to the amenities of urban living. Will the pandemic cause a lasting shift back to the suburbs? Too soon to say.

What is apparent is that NYC’s budget is going to take a broadside due to the loss of revenues and tourism, and I expect you will see brands start to cut down on their flagship stores, which serve more of a marketing than revenue generating function given the leasing costs.
People are making permanent judgments on temporary crisis. This is nothing new:
1598643794821.png

Also, Silicon Valley, after dot com bust, rents went down in half. It bounced back stronger than ever. Some of the biggest and best companies came out of crisis when people could afford to live there and many had no opportunity costs from leaving cushy big company jobs.
Also, there is nothing wrong if NY and CA people distribute themselves around the country. It might save America from disintegrating from our political divisions. When big bad liberal elite tech guy is your neighbor and customer, and your kids go to same school and hang out, that's better than we are all in Silicon Valley and you are all in flyover country living in parallel universes moving in opposite directions.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,432
1,808
126
Wut? People were never drawn back to urban living. Stupid hipsters wanted to - then when they actually started to make money, have a family, etc... they all did the same thing as previous generations... gtfo of their shitty downtown-ish apartment and buy a home in the 'burbs.

This hasn't changed anything recently.


.
Yeah, but there’s a lot of hipsters
 

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