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Bill to ban "machines designed for the manufacturing of frames or receivers for firearms"

herm0016

herm0016

Diamond Member
I am guessing this will never see the light of a vote, and i believe that is a proper way to handle something ridiculous like this.

actual bill: https://raskin.house.gov/sites/raskin.house.gov/files/Stop Home Manufacture of Ghost Guns Act.pdf

either, the bill aims to ban the sale of all metal working tools to an individual because they could be used for making a gun, or it is totally useless. you can literally make a receiver for a AK with a shovel, hammer, and drill for instance.

There is one? manufacture of a small CNC machine branded for finishing 80% parts, but there are hundreds of small CNC machines that are capable, but not necessarily branded for making gun parts. How about 3d printers?

i also wonder if the amendments section changes it to ban the sale of machines to make ammo also, as it is mentioned.
 
ATPN does not know how to respond to a post without a polarizing source or heavy political leaning? that's all i'm getting here. though, i already knew that.
 
shortylickens said:
that is ANY machine.
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The bill specifies that it's referring to "a device designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be used primarily to make, or convert a product into, a frame or receiver for a firearm" or "any combination of parts designed or intended for use in making a device described in [the previous descriptor] and from which such a device may be readily assembled." [emphasis added]

I have no idea whether this is a good or necessary thing, but it's very clearly talking about machines specifically designed to make firearms, not ones that one could conceivably use to jimmy something up.
 
ewdotson said:
The bill specifies that it's referring to "a device designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be used primarily to make, or convert a product into, a frame or receiver for a firearm" or "any combination of parts designed or intended for use in making a device described in [the previous descriptor] and from which such a device may be readily assembled." [emphasis added]

I have no idea whether this is a good or necessary thing, but it's very clearly talking about machines specifically designed to make firearms, not ones that one could conceivably use to jimmy something up.
Click to expand...

there may be one or 2 machines that were specifically designed to make a firearm, but are also useful for other things. you can also make a fire arm with a router and some wood templates from a 80%. The manufactures just use off the shelf CNC machines. its not some kind of high tech super non-trivial process.

its not like saying you cant buy high speed centrifuges for enriching uranium. that is a specific piece of equipment used for very few jobs.

"remade" does that include programming? so if i program a CNC to make a lower receiver, then is the machine itself subject to the ban, and all other machines where that program could be used?

Nobody had to "jimmy" something up. these machines are built to make anything you can imagine out of a hunk of plastic/metal/etc.
 
And, based on the letter of the bill, those machines should be fine since their *primary* use isn't making firearms.

I'm definitely *not* saying that this is necessarily a smart or necessary bill. I don't have anything like the expertise necessary to have an opinion. I'm just saying there's a difference between "this device is specifically designed to make firearms or to make a device to make firearms" and "this is a device one could conceivably use to make firearms".
 
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ewdotson said:
And, based on the letter of the bill, those machines should be fine since their *primary* use isn't making firearms.
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You would have to try hard to make a one trick pony out of any 3D printer or CNC machine. Like only have the design in firmware.
 
brycejones said:
Let the pearl clutching begin
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Yep forget all about corruption, healthcare, COVID response, climate change, net neutrality, and everything else. This is the true threat and so we must vote straight Republican once again. This message brought to you by GOYA.
 
Sounds like the only viable solution is a complete ban of guns at the state level and a federal law making transportation of guns across state lines a federal crime.

Gun nutters will inevitably end up fulfilling their own prophecy.
 
herm0016 said:
I am guessing this will never see the light of a vote, and i believe that is a proper way to handle something ridiculous like this.

actual bill: https://raskin.house.gov/sites/raskin.house.gov/files/Stop Home Manufacture of Ghost Guns Act.pdf

either, the bill aims to ban the sale of all metal working tools to an individual because they could be used for making a gun, or it is totally useless. you can literally make a receiver for a AK with a shovel, hammer, and drill for instance.

There is one? manufacture of a small CNC machine branded for finishing 80% parts, but there are hundreds of small CNC machines that are capable, but not necessarily branded for making gun parts. How about 3d printers?

i also wonder if the amendments section changes it to ban the sale of machines to make ammo also, as it is mentioned.
Click to expand...
Clearly the author of the bill has no knowledge of machine tools, or what they're capable of doing. The most that will happen is a packaging and marketing change for a few suppliers.
My hunch it was done as something to point at and claim they we're fighting the gun nuts.
 
dank69 said:
Yep forget all about corruption, healthcare, COVID response, climate change, net neutrality, and everything else. This is the true threat and so we must vote straight Republican once again. This message brought to you by GOYA.
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you do notice that you guys are the only ones being useless in the thread.
 
Overly broad, unenforceable, unrealistic, clueless, knee-jerk for-show legislation FTW!

Jeebers... Who wrote that nonsense? They should be recalled by their own voters.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Oh no, not a bill being filed... Maybe a worthwhile discussion could be had if it actually gained traction.
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you could help contribute to a worthwhile discussion, but you choose not to.


can anyone find statistics on how many home made fire arms are used in crimes?
 
As I understand this with the note I haven’t read it is if I have a machine to let’s say manufacture shovels I’m compliant, the moment I modify it to make rife parts I’m no longer compliant.
 
herm0016 said:
you could help contribute to a worthwhile discussion, but you choose not to.


can anyone find statistics on how many home made fire arms are used in crimes?
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This whole thread is set up as some chicken little crying session, considering that this bill is basically DOA. Plus, it looks like only ~4-6% of all bills get a vote in each session of the Congress, hence my comment that you should come back when it actually gains traction.
 
not that i'm well-versed in the manufacture of firearms, but i would hazard a guess that a good amount of the machines they use are generic - it's the tooling that's specific to firearms manufacture. mills, drills, lathes, forges, etc. - all can be used to make any variety of things. anyone with more experience want to chime in on this?

the next closest thing - short of a complete ban with buyback - introduce something akin to the... NFA was it? that controlled the production of machineguns. In other words, no new firearms can be manufactured outside of those for police/defense work. Of course that would probably get struck down in court pretty fast, which is why they're going the manufacture route I take it. Another thought is ban all semi-autos. That means bolt action rifles, revolvers, and pump action shotguns are all still legal. The rate of fire is in part what makes semi autos deadly in mass-shooting scenarios, and in that regard a pistol and rifle fire just as fast (however fast you can pull the trigger). This would probably not pass the heller test "in common use" for better or worse. But would still provide a legal avenue for firearm ownership. "Shall not be infringed", after all, does not mean "shall not be regulated"
 
Fenixgoon said:
not that i'm well-versed in the manufacture of firearms, but i would hazard a guess that a good amount of the machines they use are generic - it's the tooling that's specific to firearms manufacture. mills, drills, lathes, forges, etc. - all can be used to make any variety of things. anyone with more experience want to chime in on this?
Click to expand...

THATS WHAT I BEEN FUCKING SAYING!
 
Greenman said:
Clearly the author of the bill has no knowledge of machine tools, or what they're capable of doing. The most that will happen is a packaging and marketing change for a few suppliers.
My hunch it was done as something to point at and claim they we're fighting the gun nuts.
Click to expand...

He's trying to fight the creation of ghost guns. That's what 80% lowers & the machinery to finish them are all about, untraceable firearms. It's a dodge. I can buy 100% serialized AR lowers as cheaply as 80% lowers and I don't need a $2000 machine to finish them. 80% lowers are not considered to be firearms, just ordinary items of commerce. It's the same with all the other bits necessary to create a modern killing machine. It's def a thing out there on the fringe. Because gun grabbers, or something.

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It's all ass backwards. Classify partially finished lower receivers as firearms that must be serialized & sold the same way as other firearms. Done.
 
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