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Bill Maher gives a lesson on one way Democrats can toughen up

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
25,103
9,970
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Best line from his diatribe. "Democrats bring a hug to a knife fight". I've been saying this for a while, start playing HARDBALL

 
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nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
6,059
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I think that Democrats are afraid that small-d democracy is in danger, and that playing too rough will end up killing it off, i.e. neither party will even attempt to work towards the greater good. And I think that the Democrats who are afraid of this are probably correct to be afraid.

But, at some point the stark difference between a typical, sometimes-corrupt political party and one that has long stopped caring about its descent into open small-f fascism has to be made. Highlighted. And citizens who care, asked to make a choice.

That the President has a close ally who is a known and open mercenary, and that mercenary operator is openly collaborating with openly proud ratfuckers like Project Veritas, should give anyone who cares about small-d democracy pause.

This is just a few steps away from a political secret police, out to sabotage the other political party. This isn't about pearl-clutching. If Obama or any other Democrat had done anything remotely similar, there'd be no end to the "they're coming to take our guns" talking points we're saddled with every 4-8 years that a Democrat continues not taking anyone's guns.

Bill Maher isn't a complete and total buffoon, but he tends to play one on TV. He's half-right. The differences need to discussed openly, but becoming like the Republican party to fight it, is not the answer.
 

GodisanAtheist

Platinum Member
Nov 16, 2006
2,547
1,037
136
I think that Democrats are afraid that small-d democracy is in danger, and that playing too rough will end up killing it off, i.e. neither party will even attempt to work towards the greater good. And I think that the Democrats who are afraid of this are probably correct to be afraid.

But, at some point the stark difference between a typical, sometimes-corrupt political party and one that has long stopped caring about its descent into open small-f fascism has to be made. Highlighted. And citizens who care, asked to make a choice.

That the President has a close ally who is a known and open mercenary, and that mercenary operator is openly collaborating with openly proud ratfuckers like Project Veritas, should give anyone who cares about small-d democracy pause.

This is just a few steps away from a political secret police, out to sabotage the other political party. This isn't about pearl-clutching. If Obama or any other Democrat had done anything remotely similar, there'd be no end to the "they're coming to take our guns" talking points we're saddled with every 4-8 years that a Democrat continues not taking anyone's guns.

Bill Maher isn't a complete and total buffoon, but he tends to play one on TV. He's half-right. The differences need to discussed openly, but becoming like the Republican party to fight it, is not the answer.
- The Dems will always be stuck between that rock and hard place. The Pubs have absolutely no qualms about killing "small-d democracy" (not a flattering term for it) and winning elections because of it. I understand Maher's argument here: like a surgeon that has to hurt someone to fix them, Democrats have to use the rigged system as it is to undo it.

In a twisted sort of way, the Republicans have built the path to follow to win in the American system. We can let them follow it and whatever will come of it, or Democrats can use that same system but to a better end.
 

sportage

Diamond Member
Feb 1, 2008
8,899
1,167
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I thought Bill was higher than usual.
He seemed a bit off. He claims he only smokes after the show but I’m guessing he took a few hits before the show.
Probably some Knee jerk reaction to Donald Trump.
While Democrats seem pretty messed up this election cycle we must remember the republicans back in 2016. All of Trump’s opponents hated Trump and Trump hated them. And the RNC was convinced It would never be Donald Trump. Never never never.
And look at them now, those republicans. Who could have ever imagined?
It will most likely come down to Joe Biden, and we may be surprised how Democrats come together. All Bernie Sanders need do is say a kind word directed at Joe and maybe those Sanders people will come along too?
Everything comes down to how much Democrats really want to beat Trump, and that has yet to be determined. If they want it bad enough even an old white guy like Joe Biden can seem quite appealing.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,515
3,281
126
Isn't the value of money that you are able to buy the favor of fools. Isn't politics the business of buying the greater number of fools who will vote? In what universe can you impress people with character or sincerity or truth. The whole point of voting is to vote for the one who will make you rich too, not somebody who wants to turn away money. Don't think of voters as people of character. Campaign as if you were calling hogs.

 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
16,562
5,855
136
Maher touched on something that wasn't popular with people I know; my refusal to completely condemn Bloomberg due to his vow of financially supporting whomever got the nomination. I'll cuss him out if he welches on it, sure, but until then I maintain assets like his being available to defeat this traitor is a good thing.

I thought his comments wrt Obama were on point.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,991
1,656
126
Isn't the value of money that you are able to buy the favor of fools. Isn't politics the business of buying the greater number of fools who will vote? In what universe can you impress people with character or sincerity or truth. The whole point of voting is to vote for the one who will make you rich too, not somebody who wants to turn away money. Don't think of voters as people of character. Campaign as if you were calling hogs.

The most consistent and noticeable theme on this board is when people post that they believe in a certain thing, but they think that a candidate should do or say the opposite to fool the rubes into voting for them.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,661
4,483
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The whole "I won't take money from the rich" is stupid. Isn't the whole point of progressive politics to take money from the rich to help the poor?
 
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ondma

Golden Member
Mar 18, 2018
1,741
556
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I very strongly agree. Yes, Democrats want to lessen the influence concentrated money has on politics. Guess what though, you have to win first.
Money is important, but even worse is that the dems have lost touch with the middle class and are too focused on political correctness or the latest social reform of the day. Not that there is anything wrong per se with that, but they need to address the desperation of the disenfranchised lower and middle classes. Scaramuchi is certainly a sleezebag, but one thing he said on last weeks Bill Maher show was very insightful. That was how Trump won in part because he was able to tap into the economic and social desperation of the lower and middle class. Now the Dems need to attack that, and point out how Trump has not lived up to any of those promises, but instead pushed through a huge tax cut for the rich and give crumbs at best to the middle class.

It is really ironic that the Democratic party's full name is Democratic Farmer Labor party, of which both the farmer's and working middle class have abandoned them in droves and support Trump either enthusiastically or for the more rational, begrudgingly.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
67,840
2,945
126
Embrace the Corruption, is a losing proposition. Bernie has no shortage of Cash, because he has no shortage of Integrity.
 
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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
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The whole "I won't take money from the rich" is stupid. Isn't the whole point of progressive politics to take money from the rich to help the poor?
Taking millions of dollars in dark money to stop universal health care = "taking money from the rich to help the poor".
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,515
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Money is important, but even worse is that the dems have lost touch with the middle class and are too focused on political correctness or the latest social reform of the day. Not that there is anything wrong per se with that, but they need to address the desperation of the disenfranchised lower and middle classes. Scaramuchi is certainly a sleezebag, but one thing he said on last weeks Bill Maher show was very insightful. That was how Trump won in part because he was able to tap into the economic and social desperation of the lower and middle class. Now the Dems need to attack that, and point out how Trump has not lived up to any of those promises, but instead pushed through a huge tax cut for the rich and give crumbs at best to the middle class.

It is really ironic that the Democratic party's full name is Democratic Farmer Labor party, of which both the farmer's and working middle class have abandoned them in droves and support Trump either enthusiastically or for the more rational, begrudgingly.
I have been telling my liberal friends here what fskimospy mentioned above without emphasis on needing money to win because the way to win isn't with more money, it's with the emphasis of your messaging. Democrats, as you point out, are focused to tightly on identity politics in my opinion and on those others left out poor, instead of the economic injustice that destroys democracy and ordinary people's lives. It should not too great an effort,, I think, to point out to the population at large, that it is every color of the economically disadvantaged that need Democrat's help. When you focus on one segment of the population that has been fucked over like Blacks and Hispanics or Muslims, the feeling of fear among poor Whites is easily manipulated to make them feel their wallets are going to be stripped of what little they have to feed 'worthless Other People'.

Democrats have a brain defect and a hidden contempt for people they label as stupid, deplorable, or white trash. Democratic and Republican messaging together cause people to feel their inner negativity with the back and forth hostility they engender.

PS: Yang's idea of a universal income would change the world, create tangible good, and greatly reduce citizen insecurity but it can't go a single step because everybody thinks it will be them who pays others. Why isn't every Democrat on earth out there pushing that? Who is really stupid?

When we lived in tribes everybody contributed in their role as their sex and age warranted and everybody belonged. We live now in the service of money and if we have it we flatter ourselves on our phony self worth and lose the sense of reciprocity.
 
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woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
11,846
6,301
136
I have been telling my liberal friends here what fskimospy mentioned above without emphasis on needing money to win because the way to win isn't with more money, it's with the emphasis of your messaging. Democrats, as you point out, are focused to tightly on identity politics in my opinion and on those others left out poor, instead of the economic injustice that destroys democracy and ordinary people's lives. It should not too great an effort,, I think, to point out to the population at large, that it is every color of the economically disadvantaged that need Democrat's help. When you focus on one segment of the population that has been fucked over like Blacks and Hispanics or Muslims, the feeling of fear among poor Whites is easily manipulated to make them feel their wallets are going to be stripped of what little they have to feel 'worthless Other People'.

Democrats have a brain defect and a hidden contempt for people they label as stupid, deplorable, or white trash. Democratic and Republican messaging together make people cause people to feel their inner negativity.

PS: Yang's idea of a universal income would change the world, create tangible good, and greatly reduce citizen insecurity but it can't go a single step because everybody things it will be them who pays others. Why isn't every Democrat on earth out there pushing that? Who is really stupid?
Bloomberg bought his way to about 20% nationally without appearing at one debate. Money is a necessary if insufficient condition to win an election.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,183
3,823
136
The whole "I won't take money from the rich" is stupid. Isn't the whole point of progressive politics to take money from the rich to help the poor?
That's what Robbing Hood always said! :p
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,183
3,823
136
Taking millions of dollars in dark money to stop universal health care = "taking money from the rich to help the poor".
All of us on the "left" want universal health care, but there's a roadmap to get there,, because politics is always and ever the art of the possible, that involves more than one stop along the way. This roadmap does NOT involve making Bernie Sanders the Democratic candidate for the Presidency.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,183
3,823
136
Embrace the Corruption, is a losing proposition. Bernie has no shortage of Cash, because he has no shortage of Integrity.
But among the American electorate, after the Repub slur machine got done with this "aged, JEWISH communist rumored to have sex with goats" he would end up with a shortage of VOTES. And THAT would give us second term Trump.

Wake up and smell our existential emergency. Please hold your ideologically pure nose and help the rest of us elect Joe. Please! Your country needs you. We need you.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
44,183
3,823
136
Best line from his diatribe. "Democrats bring a hug to a knife fight". I've been saying this for a while, start playing HARDBALL
It's been asymmetric warfare for decades now. Robert Frost, of all people, had it right: A Liberal is a man, " Too broad minded to take his own side in a quarrel."

Folks, we cannot afford to let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The Democratic Party is so far from "perfect" it's laughable. And yet, after George Bush "stole" his second election, I changed my registration from Independent to Democratic simply to remind me that the barbarians are now inside the gate and we all need to grab a pitchfork and fight the hell back!

I LOVE Bill Maher! To say that I don't always agree with him might well be an understatement, but I'm beyond glad his voice has a platform to be heard.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
66,515
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Bloomberg bought his way to about 20% nationally without appearing at one debate. Money is a necessary if insufficient condition to win an election.
My aim is to tell the truth as I know it. One aspect of truth might be that nobody knows anything who thinks they know things. The truth you have given me here is in my opinion a truth that is true only in a world that is asleep to reality. I think you would be somewhat repelled by what you call truth if you knew the state of consciousness it is true in.

Imagine that instead of the world in which the laws of money apply, you are dreaming and being used as a battery, trapped inside a program you can see only by it's rules of the game. What kind of mind can't be influenced by money bought propaganda, that is unable to be influenced by ego need. To what party do the people who would free minds belong? Do you think they can free them with money?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
67,840
2,945
126
But among the American electorate, after the Repub slur machine got done with this "aged, JEWISH communist rumored to have sex with goats" he would end up with a shortage of VOTES. And THAT would give us second term Trump.

Wake up and smell our existential emergency. Please hold your ideologically pure nose and help the rest of us elect Joe. Please! Your country needs you. We need you.
This is the same BS excuse made last time. It's just a Strawman. Meanwhile Biden's brain is deteriorating right in front of our eyes.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,754
544
126
This is the same BS excuse made last time. It's just a Strawman. Meanwhile Biden's brain is deteriorating right in front of our eyes.
Exactly. I'm not even a Bernie supporter but the party gets so wrapped up in an amorphous idea of who other people will vote for trying to win over a few unreliable independents instead of expanding its base. Face the facts. You need someone who excites people. Obama (for some reason) excited people. Trump excites people. Hillary did not particularly excite anyone and Biden certainly does not. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good? Don't let the unsupported notion that a candidate will be palatable to others be the enemy of the good either.
 
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Mar 11, 2004
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That's nice. You know what'd be even nicer? If Maher walked the walk instead of being full of shit himself.

Let's see: trashes Turmp for lackadaisacal response to Coronavirus, then proceeds to do a diatribe chastising people for freaking out about the Coronavirus. Ok, mr "vaccines aren't that good!"
Says Democrats have to fight themselves as well as Republicans, proceeds to trash Democrats. Well gee, maybe lead by example? Nah, fuck that, he's got a clownshow to run.
Decries modern media and access to it, proceeds to put Vice News behind a paywall.

That's just the shit I recall from the past few years.

Eat shit, Maher, and eat shit anyone that buys his bullshit preaching to the choir act. You're being duped. Give it another decade and I bet Maher openly is Republican while claiming he just had to after the Democrats ____ like a bunch of other hypocritical dipshits (remember when people on here said they couldn't vote Democrat because they didn't know what they stood for because they apparently couldn't be bothered to visit their website? Or consider actual recent history about how Democrats act while in office?). Even more he'll probably claim he switched because liberals are "too PC" because people got sick of him doing stuff like mocking people who have accused him of sexual harassment, while he tries pulling moral majority on others for the same behavior.

I think its telling that someonesmind once proclaimed that he watches Maher religiously. That should be an indicator.

I don't get it, Maher is basically the talk show host equivalent of McCain. A completely consummately full of shit asshole that some of you fall over yourselves to prop up when he's just an asshole at every given opportunity, and is almost nothing but a hypocrite at every given turn to actually do more than bluster.

Exactly. I'm not even a Bernie supporter but the party gets so wrapped up in an amorphous idea of who other people will vote for trying to win over a few unreliable independents instead of expanding its base. Face the facts. You need someone who excites people. Obama (for some reason) excited people. Trump excites people. Hillary did not particularly excite anyone and Biden certainly does not. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good? Don't let the unsupported notion that a candidate will be palatable to others be the enemy of the good either.
If you're struggling to find out why Obama "excited people" then I really don't know what to say. Although I think you're perfectly highlighting the fucking problem here, as you're right, Obama wasn't an exciting President beyond two things, him being the first black man to be President (gee, you think that might've been one reason people were excited about him?), and two, the hype of his first campaign which had very little to do with him and everything to do with young marketing people tapping into him being a statesman that didn't make the President into a fucking joke (something we hadn't had since what, goddamned Eisenhower?), immediately after what was considered one of the most unfathomably clownshow circus acts in American history (while McCain did his best to go "yep, more Bush Jr, also I'm old and grumpy cause I'm old!" after Bush Jr policies literally triggered the 2nd worst financial crisis in American history, now take it away brainless Sara Palin! Real tough choice there...). No, what we need are rational politicians that don't have to resort to "exciting" and stop giving a shit about dumbass superficial fucking nonsense. We need to stop duping ourselves and "holding out for a hero" to save us because we keep voting for "exciting" or "charismatic" because we want to make everyone but ourselves accountable for politics being shit.

FYI, lots of people didn't vote for Turmp because he was "exciting" they voted for him in spite of him being "exciting" (read: asshole). Lots of them explicitly even told us that. Because they value single issues (like well to do pushing for tax cuts to enrich themselves at others' expense, or banning abortion via trying to stack the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v Wade, or gun rights despite something like over 80% of Americans - including gun owners - saying they feel there should be stronger regulations on gun ownership; oh and I guess we'll keep ignoring how Turmp literally worked with a foreign government to mess with the election - but yep let's just keep flinging that diarrhea shit diaper at the wall and agreeing with the Republicans that well if Hilary wasn't just so darn unlikable!). Which hell there were some that didn't think he'd actually keep being that big of an asshole if he won. They are probably the ones most embarrassed.

Wanna know why Sanders got steamrolled by Clinton in 2016? Because Bernie was almost all hype and people could see through it. He had ideas but very little policy for enacting those ideas. Things changed in those 4 years, and Sanders had lots of people doing hard work to formulate actual policy to support his ideals. Want to know why he's been struggling in 2020? We're getting very little of that, and instead we're getting 2016 hype Bernie coupled with an extra dash of Turmp "its fixed against me!" nonsense. Bernie should get back to focusing on policies. That's what will win Democrats, that's why early on it looked like he might run away with things and Biden was considered all but done. Early on, people were talking policies. People seriously discussed even candidates that they viewed as having no chance at winning because they wanted to talk about how their policy ideas might influence the overall party platform. Now its fighting about Bernie getting screwed and if people are just voting for Biden because he's allegedly more palatable to the masses, while not even discussing why that might be. That's sad as shit.

What it comes down to is that people know, despite all the buffoonery that is Biden on stage, that Biden acted sensibly when it came to policy in recent history. Wanna know the biggest complaint I hear in real life about Turmp on a regular basis? Not that they're sick of the clownshow, but they're sick of the fact that he has little policy beyond "Fuck You!", all he does is say that things suck while having no plan for making things better. Not for health care, not for people struggling economically (those people are especially sick of hearing how great the economy is doing, to say nothing of the people that lost their jobs despite the supposedly great economy including the company they worked for doing so well that they paid a bunch of money to their shareholders then proceeded to lay off thousands).

Honestly, I find both Biden and Bernie incredibly unexciting and think they're both buffoons playing a role when a camera is on them. I feel like they're quite different when its not (in a good way). I get it, they're doing the dog and pony political show. Spare me that shit thank you. Based on policy, I'd personally take Bernie over Biden for sure. But I also think Biden can work the political machine better than Bernie. That counts for something no matter how much you hand waive it away as people trying to appease Republicans or undecided voters or whatever shallow angle I keep seeing people claim.

Here's something to keep in mind. People can see that the Republicans just enacted all the same shit that led to the Great Recession (while having an even bigger dumbass who's prone to outright insane behavior), and they can tell where things are headed. They know how Biden acted when faced with the situation post 2008. All many people are hearing from Bernie are radical ideas that are going to rock the boat, and they can see choppy water ahead. I think its time for Bernie to chill out, tone down the rhetoric and explain what he's going to do for the people treading water now. You don't stand up and start shouting, you sit the fuck down and calm things. We're going to need that. That's what people are seeing in Biden and not seeing in Bernie.

Last thing. Let the Republicans bleat and bleat while Turmp goatfucks them off the cliff. Don't try to outdo their clownshow.
 

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