My sister is starting her internship and she wants to bike to work, so I'll be buying her a bike. I know the saddles are different for women but are the bikes themselves different? Seems like there are more deals for men's bikes than women's bikes out there.
Bike question...
- Thread starter alphatarget1
- Start date
IHateMyJob2004
Lifer
- Sep 29, 2004
- 18,656
- 68
- 91
Depened on how much you are spending. If you are buying a real bike, simple ask at the Bike Shop. If you are going to Wal-Mart, no matter what you do, you are buying junk.
Dirigible
Diamond Member
- Apr 26, 2006
- 5,961
- 32
- 91
The typical woman has a shorter upper body and longer legs than a man of the same height. So there are woman-specific geometry bikes that'll have a shorter effective top tube length compared to the men's equivalent.
It's often easy to tweak "men's" bicycles with a shorter stem or other tricks to have it fit a woman well, though. And your sister may not have the same proportions as a typical woman. So it's by no means a given that she needs a woman-specific bike. Have her try out a bike to see if she finds it comfy.
How long is her commute? I'm more willing to ride a slightly misfit bike short distances than long ones. I commuted on a too-small bike for years because I had to park it outside and didn't care if it was stolen. Kept my nice and properly fitting bikes locked up at home.
It's often easy to tweak "men's" bicycles with a shorter stem or other tricks to have it fit a woman well, though. And your sister may not have the same proportions as a typical woman. So it's by no means a given that she needs a woman-specific bike. Have her try out a bike to see if she finds it comfy.
How long is her commute? I'm more willing to ride a slightly misfit bike short distances than long ones. I commuted on a too-small bike for years because I had to park it outside and didn't care if it was stolen. Kept my nice and properly fitting bikes locked up at home.
I'm thinking of getting one of these ones at REI.
http://www.rei.com/product/761420
http://www.rei.com/product/760850
Either one is within budget, I'd just swap out the tires for some city tires (and keep the tires for myself hehe).
Quick unrelated question: why do the road bikes at that website not have shocks? I ride a $70 walmart bike to campus each day (.5mi) and sometimes ride 15mi RT to the city on weekends. It is bumpy as hell. (anything more expensive will get stolen or vandalized). My sister has a better bike, but still cheap ($240) and it has shocks. I've ridden it a little bit and the ride sure is a lot smoother on the roads.
I'm a bike nub so maybe my question is silly.
I'm a bike nub so maybe my question is silly.
silverpig
Lifer
- Jul 29, 2001
- 27,703
- 12
- 81
You do NOT want shocks when riding on the road. The entire purpose of shocks is to dissipate energy and thus it makes the <legs go round> to <bike goes forward> relationship less efficient. Shocks are there for cushioning against rocks and roots when trail riding. On the road you want a very stiff hard frame with thin high pressure (100 psi or so) to eliminate the losses.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
yeh, make sure the tires are for riding on the road too. you don't want any tire that has "off-road" in it's description. those tires grip the ground more than she'd need and would make for more effort to get them to move on pavement.
do you have a Dick's Sporting Goods nearby? they have some decent women's bikes.
I'm kind of glad I got shocks for my fixie since the roads here are pretty bad, and I just turn the pretension higher so it's stiffer.
I don't know how it's going to be where she'll be riding.
Dirigible
Diamond Member
- Apr 26, 2006
- 5,961
- 32
- 91
Those bikes seem like they would work fine, as long as REI makes sure she gets the right size. They would not be my first choice, though. Like the others have said, mountain bikes aren't the most efficient for road commuting. Suspension bounce sucks energy that would be better used in forward motion, and the suspension also adds weight, making it harder to go up hills. I personally would rather not use a mountain bike as a commuter.
If you decide to go mountain bike anyway, it is doable, especially if you swap the knobbies for slicks as you say. If the ride is short and not too hilly, a mountain bike's inefficiency may be of little concern and it may have a more upright stance that non-cyclists may find more comfortable.
The longer and more hilly the route, the bigger preference I'd have for a more efficient non-mountain bike, so take her route into account.
Whatever you get, don't forget the helmet, mini-pump, tire levers, spare tube and patch kit! That's the absolute minimum you need for regular riding. Gotta have a helmet, and gotta be prepared to fix a flat. (Heck, I've got a couple spare mini-pumps lying around. If you're really in Contra Costa county and want one for free, you can PM me and I'll tell you where I live so you can pick one up. Course with gas prices the way they are, it may be cheaper to just buy one at REI.) Get a good lock too.
Womens bikes usually have the crossbar aiming down at a lower angle than the mens bikes. Which are normally pretty parallel horizontally. There are also different sizes that are used for different heights. Have your sister sit on a bike with the seat at the proper level, and her legs should be almost fully extended at the bottom of the pedal rotation.
Women can ride mens frames so as men can ride women frames. (same thing regard seats). And, the best fit depends on what type of rider & body your sister got.
IMHO, It is best to take her to a local bike shop and test ride a few bikes before you make the decision. And, it could be wise to try out a few hybrids.
Good luck.
IMHO, It is best to take her to a local bike shop and test ride a few bikes before you make the decision. And, it could be wise to try out a few hybrids.
Good luck.
I'd take the advice and look at a hybrid designed for women......and forget the dropped top tube. That's something that's just a carryover from "olden" times of skirts, etc. A dropped top tube bike is not as rigid in the front triangle as a standard built frame. Otherwise, men would be riding dropped top tube bikes. After all, if one happens to suddenly come off the saddle and hit the top tube, who is going to have the worse hurt....a woman or a man who has much more externally exposed bits 'n' pieces to hurt?
I'm riding a Cannondale R800 Feminine......frame size is a 50cm, but when compared to a man's version, the frame equates in geometry, sizes of top tube length, seat tube length, etc., to a 48cm. The head tube angle is slightly different, the shifters have a shorter reach, crank arms are shorter......a lot of very subtle differences that, in total, make for a very different fit on the bike.
But using a pure road bike for commuting through town, while is done every day by a whole host of people, isn't really the ideal solution. Road bikes are made for one thing, speed. They're made as light as possible, frame made as stiff as possible to put as much pedaling energy into moving the bike and not flexing the frame, and putting your body into as aerodynamic position as possible to reduce wind resistance losses.
But what makes road bikes great for racing or long, fast rides kind of makes them suck for getting through traffic. They can have twitchy steering (steep head angles)....you don't turn a road bike's front wheel to steer as much as you tend to just lean it to turn in corners. (This is why a lot of road bikes end up with what is known as indexed fork bearings.....the bearings in the head tube that support the fork and do the turning rarely move from straight ahead position, so eventually the ball puts a "dent" into the straight ahead position, indexing the bearings and fork to a straight ahead position. Can easily be felt.)
The energy efficient, stiff frame.....great for distance riding....will beat you to death on bad surface streets. The riding position is not the best for dealing with traffic and keeping a close eye out for car doors, peds, etc.
A hybrid, on the other hand, puts one in a much more upright riding position, better for scanning traffic ahead, watching out for suddenly appearing obstacles, etc. The steering is not as twitchy from a slacker head tube angle.....but the slower steering does put in a bit more "safety" into emergency maneuvers......harder to radically oversteer the bike, as one can do with a road bike. And putting a shorter stem on a man's road bike to fit a woman just compounds that problem.....makes the steering faster and can be much twitchier. (You want to try to have the handlebar bisect the front axle when seated and looking down. Handlebar "behind" the axle gives "faster" steering....needs less steering input to produce a given turn. Handlebar "ahead" of the axle gives slower steering....more input needed to produce a given turn.)
Honestly, a hybrid just makes more sense for a commuter/get around bike. More upgright seating, more appropriate steering, etc. And a good hybrid can be about as light as a fair road bike in weight. Depends a lot on frame material chosen and componentry put on it.
Oh, and there have been road bikes with shocks on them.....Cannondale put out the Silk Road series for a decade or so. Headshock front end w/carbon fiber fork, about 1-1.25" travel, and could be locked out to be completely rigid. Rock Shox put out the 700C Ruby front shock......fit road bikes and hybrids (where you typically saw the Ruby installed.) Again, 1-1.25" travel and had lockout. But both exacted a weight penalty and were not great solutions to bad roads...but they did work.
I think more comfort would be found if taking frame materials into consideration:
CroMo steel.....fairly flexible (given that flexible is a relative term), but typically heaviest of the used frame materials, until you get to Waterford-type frames and costs, meaning CroMo steel can be made light but takes a lot of work, butting, etc., which adds a lot of expense, not found in most typical bike store bikes. Almost no fatigue life issues, but does have a rust problem if not protected.....inside seat tube on top of bottom bracket shell is most common place for "hidden" rust......sweat, water from H20 bottles, etc., seeps down past the seat post and pools on top of the bottom bracket shell producing rust.
Aluminum....easiest material used to make a light, stiff frame. But has a perceived fatigue life issue (which can happen...saw a friend's Pinarello snap its chain stay just behind the bottom bracket). Also, one of the more difficult materials to weld correctly....very easy to overheat and burn through if not paying attention. 6000 series alu. has to be heat treated after welding to regain its strength, 7000 series doesn't, but 7000 is seen by some as being a more "brittle" metal.
Titanium.....strong, almost no fatigue issues (although Ti can fatigue and break eventually). Flexible and smooth riding in most cases. But expensive, not the lightest frame material, and few bike companies use it.
Carbon fiber.......strong, light, stiff, easily tuned when laying up to get whatever you want out of the frame. But expensive, can fracture and break.....can sometimes shatter in crashes but more likely to crack in that instance than shatter. Very good vibration damping properties.....
I'm riding a Cannondale R800 Feminine......frame size is a 50cm, but when compared to a man's version, the frame equates in geometry, sizes of top tube length, seat tube length, etc., to a 48cm. The head tube angle is slightly different, the shifters have a shorter reach, crank arms are shorter......a lot of very subtle differences that, in total, make for a very different fit on the bike.
But using a pure road bike for commuting through town, while is done every day by a whole host of people, isn't really the ideal solution. Road bikes are made for one thing, speed. They're made as light as possible, frame made as stiff as possible to put as much pedaling energy into moving the bike and not flexing the frame, and putting your body into as aerodynamic position as possible to reduce wind resistance losses.
But what makes road bikes great for racing or long, fast rides kind of makes them suck for getting through traffic. They can have twitchy steering (steep head angles)....you don't turn a road bike's front wheel to steer as much as you tend to just lean it to turn in corners. (This is why a lot of road bikes end up with what is known as indexed fork bearings.....the bearings in the head tube that support the fork and do the turning rarely move from straight ahead position, so eventually the ball puts a "dent" into the straight ahead position, indexing the bearings and fork to a straight ahead position. Can easily be felt.)
The energy efficient, stiff frame.....great for distance riding....will beat you to death on bad surface streets. The riding position is not the best for dealing with traffic and keeping a close eye out for car doors, peds, etc.
A hybrid, on the other hand, puts one in a much more upright riding position, better for scanning traffic ahead, watching out for suddenly appearing obstacles, etc. The steering is not as twitchy from a slacker head tube angle.....but the slower steering does put in a bit more "safety" into emergency maneuvers......harder to radically oversteer the bike, as one can do with a road bike. And putting a shorter stem on a man's road bike to fit a woman just compounds that problem.....makes the steering faster and can be much twitchier. (You want to try to have the handlebar bisect the front axle when seated and looking down. Handlebar "behind" the axle gives "faster" steering....needs less steering input to produce a given turn. Handlebar "ahead" of the axle gives slower steering....more input needed to produce a given turn.)
Honestly, a hybrid just makes more sense for a commuter/get around bike. More upgright seating, more appropriate steering, etc. And a good hybrid can be about as light as a fair road bike in weight. Depends a lot on frame material chosen and componentry put on it.
Oh, and there have been road bikes with shocks on them.....Cannondale put out the Silk Road series for a decade or so. Headshock front end w/carbon fiber fork, about 1-1.25" travel, and could be locked out to be completely rigid. Rock Shox put out the 700C Ruby front shock......fit road bikes and hybrids (where you typically saw the Ruby installed.) Again, 1-1.25" travel and had lockout. But both exacted a weight penalty and were not great solutions to bad roads...but they did work.
I think more comfort would be found if taking frame materials into consideration:
CroMo steel.....fairly flexible (given that flexible is a relative term), but typically heaviest of the used frame materials, until you get to Waterford-type frames and costs, meaning CroMo steel can be made light but takes a lot of work, butting, etc., which adds a lot of expense, not found in most typical bike store bikes. Almost no fatigue life issues, but does have a rust problem if not protected.....inside seat tube on top of bottom bracket shell is most common place for "hidden" rust......sweat, water from H20 bottles, etc., seeps down past the seat post and pools on top of the bottom bracket shell producing rust.
Aluminum....easiest material used to make a light, stiff frame. But has a perceived fatigue life issue (which can happen...saw a friend's Pinarello snap its chain stay just behind the bottom bracket). Also, one of the more difficult materials to weld correctly....very easy to overheat and burn through if not paying attention. 6000 series alu. has to be heat treated after welding to regain its strength, 7000 series doesn't, but 7000 is seen by some as being a more "brittle" metal.
Titanium.....strong, almost no fatigue issues (although Ti can fatigue and break eventually). Flexible and smooth riding in most cases. But expensive, not the lightest frame material, and few bike companies use it.
Carbon fiber.......strong, light, stiff, easily tuned when laying up to get whatever you want out of the frame. But expensive, can fracture and break.....can sometimes shatter in crashes but more likely to crack in that instance than shatter. Very good vibration damping properties.....
alkemyst
No Lifer
- Feb 13, 2001
- 83,769
- 19
- 81
bike shocks shouldn't make a difference on smoother terrain. They also waste energy a little.
Most of hte shocks on department store bikes are more gimmick than a true suspension. They sold suspension bike in places during the 60's and 70's that did nothing.
Demo24
Diamond Member
- Aug 5, 2004
- 8,356
- 9
- 81
The best idea is to only get shocks in the front, that way you can lift off the seat a bit for the bumps but your wrists/arms don't have to absorb all the impact. Also this way you won't loose the torque going to the wheels. I had a bike once with shocks at the front & rear and there was noticeable power loss. Thus for the next bike I only got shocks on the front and it's far more efficient and yet still comfortable. You won't really loose a lot of power with only front shocks, and it makes a big difference going over large bumps. If you stand then you can just absorb it with your legs, which is far less uncomfortable than using your arms.
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
Why don't you just get her an urban bike that comes with road tires like THIS or THIS?
You aren't going to get decent MTB tires on a $300 bike from REI anyway and she doesn't need the crappy suspension fork on that bike if all she's going to do is ride it around town. It just adds unnecessary weight to the bike.
Just take her to a real bike store and make sure they size the frame properly. Other than that, you don't really need anything special for just commuting, especially if it's likely to be stolen eventually anyways.
I'm not sure about tires though (i.e. mountain versus road). I have a cheapo mountain for road riding, and find it very comforting to have some extra traction and wider wheels. I rarely worry about crossing sewer grates, going through potholes and on sand/road debris. In my one year on the road so far, I've had one front wheel slide on sand in a wedge (was going so slow, I just had to put my foot down). Problem/annoyance is I have trouble just making 30Kmh and average only 20Kmh.
I'm not sure about tires though (i.e. mountain versus road). I have a cheapo mountain for road riding, and find it very comforting to have some extra traction and wider wheels. I rarely worry about crossing sewer grates, going through potholes and on sand/road debris. In my one year on the road so far, I've had one front wheel slide on sand in a wedge (was going so slow, I just had to put my foot down). Problem/annoyance is I have trouble just making 30Kmh and average only 20Kmh.
If you are worried about suspension on road bike, have your tires at 90-100 psi (140 psi would be too hard and bad grip I guess), get a GEL SEAT and BIKE SHORTS with gel padding. As well as gloves with some padding and you're set.
Throwmeabone
Senior member
- Jan 9, 2006
- 933
- 0
- 0
This is one of the most informative posts about bikes I have ever read! Thanks so much, I now truly understand the difference between road and hybrid bikes.
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