Big time Mexican cartel leader killed

[Double Trouble]

Looks like the Mexican navy did a good job on this one, with additional intel provided by the US DEA.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/12/17/mexico.cartel.leader.killed/index.html

Of course this creep will be replaced by some other scum, that's the nature of it, but still... one less bad guy.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

First this action to be truly effective they need to also target the family members and their narco wealth using RICO style laws. doing so serves as a double whamming of enforcing death sentence on the cartel leader himself and the potential finical ruin (due to asset and money confiscation) for those who benefit from his illegal dealings.

 

[dahunan]

Big time Cartel created because of failed War On Drugs

Big time cartel murders tons of innocent people all the time because of failed War On Drugs

War on Drugs creates jobs and keeps weapons suppliers happy on one side.. while it destroys communities and countries FAR MORE on the other

Making drugs illegal makes them PROFITABLE... legal would make them less interesting and exciting and way less profit

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Big time Cartel created because of failed War On Drugs

Big time cartel murders tons of innocent people all the time because of failed War On Drugs

War on Drugs creates jobs and keeps weapons suppliers happy on one side.. while it destroys communities and countries FAR MORE on the other

Making drugs illegal makes them PROFITABLE... legal would make them less interesting and exciting and way less profit

When exactly did the drug war start? Reagan appointed the first Drug Czar. Is that when? Because if that is true, the cartels were already around and they were already HUGE before that. They were killing LOTS of people both in the US and in SA. They had weapons too.

In Miami in the 60's and 70's they might have well been legal for all the attention that was paid to them. Cocaine cartels owned the cops and judges. They were well paid to look the other way. Things were far worse then than they are today with the WOD... If anything the WOD was a response to the violence and crime that came with allowing the free flow of cocaine into Florida.

In essence, we've already seen what allowing the free trade of drugs does. It ain't pretty.

Cocaine Cowboys... Best documentary I've ever seen.

 

[Zorkorist]

We haven't seen the free trade of drugs since maybe 1900 or so.

Since BEFORE prohibition, Puritan America has attacked drugs.

Today we don't have the free trade of drugs...

So, basically, I have no idea what you are talking about.

IF drugs were legal, and traded fairly, this dude would not have died.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

We haven't seen the free trade of drugs since maybe 1900 or so.

Since BEFORE prohibition, Puritan America has attacked drugs.

Today we don't have the free trade of drugs...

So, basically, I have no idea what you are talking about.

IF drugs were legal, and traded fairly, this dude would not have died.

Step back and open your mind a little bit.

In the 60's and 70's in Florida, cocaine might as well have been legal. The cops and judges were all bought and paid for... Just another cost of doing business for the cartels. They operated without fear of prosecution. This is the closest analog we have to openly legalizing drugs. Sure, coke wasn't technically legal so it's not a perfect comparison... But what's the difference between legal and being able to do whatever you want without fear of legal consequence?

 

[Zorkorist]

I lived in Florida in the 70s, and what you are saying is hog-wash.

Drugs, besdies being illegal have had a stigma attached to them.

There trade has not been free, and to suggest it was is ludicrous.

Even the term "Hippy" was an attack on drugs and their users.

 

[JEDIYoda]

I lived in Florida in the 70s, and what you are saying is hog-wash.

Drugs, besdies being illegal have had a stigma attached to them.

There trade has not been free, and to suggest it was is ludicrous.

Even the term "Hippy" was an attack on drugs and their users.

Your the one who is so sadly mistaken!

 

[sandorski]

Reagan declared the "War on Drugs", but it was mostly just an escalation of something that had been going on for decades. Either way, it has been a failure.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

I lived in Florida in the 70s, and what you are saying is hog-wash.

Drugs, besdies being illegal have had a stigma attached to them.

There trade has not been free, and to suggest it was is ludicrous.

Even the term "Hippy" was an attack on drugs and their users.

There's two sides to this...

1. The pseudo-legalization of drugs in Miami in the 60's and 70's per the criteria I listed above.
2. Blaming the war on drugs for the existance of drug cartels and their violence

It is a fact that the cartels and dealers in Miami operated freely during that time.

It is also a fact that the cartels and their violence existed before Reagan made it US policy in 1986 to chase the cartels down in their own countries.

The title, "War on Drugs©" was coined by Reagan when he decided to send US military and law enforcement personnel into other countries to disrupt operations and chase down the 'bad guys' using preemptive tactics.

We can look at Miami in the 70's as an example of what happens when law enforcement looks the other way in regards to drug activity.

It's a myth to say that these cartels and this violence didn't exist prior to the War on Drugs.

 

[Zebo]

We should end the war but I have no illusions. Criminals will find other illegal ways to make money. Extortion, kidnapping, bank robbery, home invasions, murder for hire and so on. Until we adopt a criminal justice system like Saudi Arabia high levels of crime is here to stay.

 

[Zorkorist]

This is the nation that attempted to prohibit liquor in the 1930s. To say that we haven't attacked drugs at every opportunity, is ludicrous.

Yes, special times and places have happened, but as a whole, Drugs have neither been legal nor traded freely.

It is changing, at least here in Colorado, where we have "Medical Marijuana" stores... but it is driving the politicians absolutely batty.

 

[theflyingpig]

We should end the war but I have no illusions. Criminals will find other illegal ways to make money. Extortion, kidnapping, bank robbery, home invasions, murder for hire and so on. Until we adopt a criminal justice system like Saudi Arabia high levels of crime is here to stay.

Exactly. The reason why these cartels have so much power is because we give it to them. Our weakness is their strength. The only way to defeat them is to slaughter them all. Everyone associated with them must die. The people must be made to understand that doing business with the cartel is a death sentence. We should bomb their homes and burn the fields where they cultivate their crops. They must be hunted down like animals. Sadly, we will never do what is necessary to defeat these criminals. Our nation will continue this foolish war for decades to come. Billions will be spent by us, and billions will be earned by the cartels. They will profit from our weakness. These words, of which I have spoken are facts, which cannot be denied. Everyone knows this.

 

[Zorkorist]

We should end the war but I have no illusions. Criminals will find other illegal ways to make money. Extortion, kidnapping, bank robbery, home invasions, murder for hire and so on. Until we adopt a criminal justice system like Saudi Arabia high levels of crime is here to stay.

You are right in saying there will still be criminals, committing crimes, but, drug crimes, and the "war on drugs" will be over.

After our justice system is freed from going after drug users, maybe they can focus on public executions, stonings, etc.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

This is the nation that attempted to prohibit liquor in the 1930s. To say that we haven't attacked drugs at every opportunity, is ludicrous.

Yes, special times and places have happened, but as a whole, Drugs have neither been legal nor traded freely.

It is changing, at least here in Colorado, where we have "Medical Marijuana" stores... but it is driving the politicians absolutely batty.

I'm in Alaska right now. MJ is all but legal here. I really don't care about pot. But it's a big stretch between legalizing pot and legalizing DRUGS.

Do we really want cocaine, heroin, meth and other drugs like this to be legal?

 

[Zorkorist]

Exactly. The reason why these cartels have so much power is because we give it to them. Our weakness is their strength. The only way to defeat them is to slaughter them all. Everyone associated with them must die. The people must be made to understand that doing business with the cartel is a death sentence. We should bomb their homes and burn the fields where they cultivate their crops. They must be hunted down like animals. Sadly, we will never do what is necessary to defeat these criminals. Our nation will continue this foolish war for decades to come. Billions will be spent by us, and billions will be earned by the cartels. They will profit from our weakness. These words, of which I have spoken are facts, which cannot be denied. Everyone knows this.

You are just sick, and can't see the simple solution, which is, to legalize drugs.

 

[theflyingpig]

You are just sick, and can't see the simple solution, which is, to legalize drugs.

Fool. That is the second step of the plan. What do you think cartels are going to do once drugs are legalized? Go legit? You are a fool if you think so. They are criminals and will continue to operate criminal enterprises. They must be slaughtered without mercy. Everyone knows this.

 

[Zorkorist]

I'm in Alaska right now. MJ is all but legal here. I really don't care about pot. But it's a big stretch between legalizing pot and legalizing DRUGS.

Do we really want cocaine, heroin, meth and other drugs like this to be legal?

Yeah baby...

Don't forget LSD

mmmm LSD.

 

[dahunan]

Reagan declared the "War on Drugs", but it was mostly just an escalation of something that had been going on for decades. Either way, it has been a failure.

FAKEgan declared the War On Drugs while supporting drug lords that landed his punkass in court



When you see the pain and destruction and absolute horror the war on drugs has caused innocent people you will never agree with it

Is it led by religious bastards?

 

[dahunan]

I'm in Alaska right now. MJ is all but legal here. I really don't care about pot. But it's a big stretch between legalizing pot and legalizing DRUGS.

Do we really want cocaine, heroin, meth and other drugs like this to be legal?

lol.. how about that ALCOHOL in alaska.. It is prohibited in many many places and people who use it and/or distribute it are felons

 

[dahunan]

TELL ME.. how much would drugs be worth if they weren't illegal?

 

[Zebo]

Exactly. The reason why these cartels have so much power is because we give it to them. Our weakness is their strength. The only way to defeat them is to slaughter them all. Everyone associated with them must die. The people must be made to understand that doing business with the cartel is a death sentence. We should bomb their homes and burn the fields where they cultivate their crops. They must be hunted down like animals. Sadly, we will never do what is necessary to defeat these criminals. Our nation will continue this foolish war for decades to come. Billions will be spent by us, and billions will be earned by the cartels. They will profit from our weakness. These words, of which I have spoken are facts, which cannot be denied. Everyone knows this.

+1 Yup and they are growing more powerful and deadly by the day. I read they are recruiting and hiring former special forces. Getting ordnance, communications equipment and explosives from governments in South America. Are more organized and embedded than mafia ever was. There is no winning unless you declare total war on them.

 

[Zorkorist]

In George Orwell's "1984" there was SOMA. A state sponsered drug.

He, Orwell, was so right.

The State will battle all "free" drugs, with their own drug.

It's only a matter of time.

Meanwhile, the State gives us a "War on Drugs," which is absolutely, sick.

 

[Zorkorist]

lol.. how about that ALCOHOL in alaska.. It is prohibited in many many places and people who use it and/or distribute it are felons

Alabama is the same way, dry.

Too sick to discuss.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

lol.. how about that ALCOHOL in alaska.. It is prohibited in many many places and people who use it and/or distribute it are felons

Yeah... compare the sexual assault, assault, murder and missing persons rates between dry villages and damp or wet villages... You'd understand why. The sexual assault rates in predominantly native/wet communities are insane compared to the population at large.

And not that you care... but it's the communities that set their dry/damp/wet status. It's not a 'puritain' thing... alcohol is just that much of a problem.

But this is WAAAAAY off my argument with dahunan who accused the WOD of creating the cartels and my contntion that the cartels created the WOD.