"Big Ten votes to add USC, UCLA as members starting in 2024" - AP

UsandThem

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https://apnews.com/article/sports-college-california-f81832a258fc3bed53ef86ff0ba25291
The Big Ten is building on previous expansion into the nation’s largest media markets, and the move allows the conference to keep pace with the SEC as one of the most powerful entities in college sports.

The Big Ten will gain blueblood programs in football (USC) and basketball (UCLA) and big-name brands that will enhance the value of the conference’s new media rights package currently being negotiated.
As a fan of Ohio State, and growing up in Big10 country, I'm not a fan of all these major moves of schools from historical conferences / alignments.

From major schools like Texas and Oklahoma going to the SEC, to now UCLA and USC heading to the BIg10, for me it really takes away from the sport. And I imagine the major conference realignments are only just beginning, as it's all about what kind of TV deals the conferences have, and how much is paid to individual teams.
 
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Exterous

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Yeah Big 16! or something...
Maybe they can both be added to the Big 10 West - at least for football. The championship game is usually a letdown for whoever wins the East. 2012 was the last time someone from the West won. 2004 was the last time someone other than Wisconsin from the West won

But its going to be an interesting world in college sports with transfer portals, athlete endorsements etc for the next couple of years while this shakes out
 

zinfamous

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This is dumb shit. So dumb. I still can't get over bullshit like Pittsburgh and fucking Notre Dame (well, half of Notre Dame, because they are just basic bitches) being in the ACC. fucking horseshit.
 
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HoleInTheEarth

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Everyone is just trying to compete against the SEC. Teams moving is going to eventually kill some conferences.
 

PowerEngineer

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This is just another indication of just how ridiculous so-called college sports has become. Whatever happened to that original justification of sports as an extracurricular activity that helped round out a college education? Now major sports (especially football and basketball) have become moneymaking entities divorced in every way other than name from the colleges they supposedly represent. Too bad most alumni are more interested in the competitiveness of their Alma Mater's sports teams than the quality of its academics. Few of the "student" players on scholarships are actually there to get a college education. Isn't it insane that the highest paid state employees are almost always college football coaches? The best you can say about this is that college sports is already so bad that nothing they can do can make it any worse.
 

jpiniero

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This is just another indication of just how ridiculous so-called college sports has become. Whatever happened to that original justification of sports as an extracurricular activity that helped round out a college education? Now major sports (especially football and basketball) have become moneymaking entities divorced in every way other than name from the colleges they supposedly represent. Too bad most alumni are more interested in the competitiveness of their Alma Mater's sports teams than the quality of its academics. Few of the "student" players on scholarships are actually there to get a college education. Isn't it insane that the highest paid state employees are almost always college football coaches? The best you can say about this is that college sports is already so bad that nothing they can do can make it any worse.
Eh, it's good marketing and gives the rest of the student body some entertainment. Most schools run their athletic department privately too, the UC schools pretty much have to.

The real scandal is giving scholarships out to the non revenue sports when they are such a money sink. Oh and the tax fraud.

The Big 10 is (ahem) Big on only having AAU schools. Could be good for USC and UCLA with research and grants.
 

Muse

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Funny thing is schools that don't make it to the playoffs still produce all star pros. You can make it in pro sports without having played in winning college programs. Witness Steph Curry, Aaron Rodgers, etc.
Eh, it's good marketing and gives the rest of the student body some entertainment. Most schools run their athletic department privately too, the UC schools pretty much have to.

The real scandal is giving scholarships out to the non revenue sports when they are such a money sink. Oh and the tax fraud.

The Big 10 is (ahem) Big on only having AAU schools. Could be good for USC and UCLA with research and grants.
Scandal? :rolleyes: Without the revenue from the major sports the smaller ones shrivel and in many cases die.
 

Exterous

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Without the revenue from the major sports the smaller ones shrivel and in many cases die.
Title IX would make that a little challenging as well since there must be equal sports participation opportunities regardless of how much income is generated by said sports
 

Torn Mind

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This is just another indication of just how ridiculous so-called college sports has become. Whatever happened to that original justification of sports as an extracurricular activity that helped round out a college education? Now major sports (especially football and basketball) have become moneymaking entities divorced in every way other than name from the colleges they supposedly represent. Too bad most alumni are more interested in the competitiveness of their Alma Mater's sports teams than the quality of its academics. Few of the "student" players on scholarships are actually there to get a college education. Isn't it insane that the highest paid state employees are almost always college football coaches? The best you can say about this is that college sports is already so bad that nothing they can do can make it any worse.
Sports are a resume add for up-and-coming students.... extreme examples are top draft picks. That in itself carries a level of respect even for many busts....and thus opportunities for a job

Always has been about the money though. All that equipment and training isn't free.

Advertising the college name can hook a youth into looking into it.

Just like in a different life, I might have prepared myself much better to going out-of-state to Michigan for it's iconic and certainly identifiable theme song. Or UC Santa Barbara because of Jim Rome.
 

jpiniero

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Title IX would make that a little challenging as well since there must be equal sports participation opportunities regardless of how much income is generated by said sports
That's part of it yeah.

Had to look it up... do you want to know how much USC is charging next year? 80+ grand including room and board. No that's not a joke. At least the Football and Basketball players are generating revenue for the school.
 

Muse

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That's part of it yeah.

Had to look it up... do you want to know how much USC is charging next year? 80+ grand including room and board. No that's not a joke. At least the Football and Basketball players are generating revenue for the school.
tuition?
 

IronWing

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That's part of it yeah.

Had to look it up... do you want to know how much USC is charging next year? 80+ grand including room and board. No that's not a joke. At least the Football and Basketball players are generating revenue for the school.
For the money invested, research professors provide a much better rate of return than athletics.
 
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HoleInTheEarth

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So, the 83k is that plus room and board?
It's no joke. We're doing the whole college campus visits and applications will start in Aug-Nov.

Two of our recent visits....
University of Chicago (6th ranked) - $82k+
Vanderbilt University (12th) is somewhere in the $85-$92k range. You're also required to stay on campus all 4 years.

If you want to go to a really good school, you're looking at $400K over 4 years. Plus, there is the study abroad aspect at some point. It's ridiculously expensive these days.
 
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TheVrolok

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It's no joke. We're doing the whole college campus visits and applications will start in Aug-Nov.

Two of our recent visits....
University of Chicago (6th ranked) - $82k+
Vanderbilt University (12th) is somewhere in the $85-$92k range. You're also required to stay on campus all 4 years.

If you want to go to a really good school, you're looking at $400K over 4 years. Plus, there is the study abroad aspect at some point. It's ridiculously expensive these days.
That is absolutely insane. That's more than than I paid for medical school which itself was ludicrously priced. I haven't even been out of school a generation yet.

Student loan system is an absolute disaster and schools are sustained by nonsense policy leading to, reductively, free money - for them.
 

Exterous

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It's no joke. We're doing the whole college campus visits and applications will start in Aug-Nov.

Two of our recent visits....
University of Chicago (6th ranked) - $82k+
Vanderbilt University (12th) is somewhere in the $85-$92k range. You're also required to stay on campus all 4 years.

If you want to go to a really good school, you're looking at $400K over 4 years. Plus, there is the study abroad aspect at some point. It's ridiculously expensive these days.
Not necessarily - esp if you have a good in-state public University. University of Michigan is $35k/year for in-state including tuition. So you can get a 4 year for $115,000 doing 2 years on campus. Out of state is also under $300k for 4 years at the No 1-3 (depending on review) ranked public university.

Several top public schools (These tend to fall in the top 5 public schools) out of state costs for a 4 year degree with zero effort to minimize housing or any financial aid:
UCLA: $272k
UC Berkely: $276k
UM: $282k
UNC: $216k

Most 4 year public (and many private) institutions will let you transfer from a community college at year 2. So you get your gen ed credits at the cheaper community college before transferring. Heck many have specific feeder schools where they offer guarantees on credit transfers

And those are just coarse rankings anyway. If you know your program of choice those might not be the best schools for you. In the state of Michigan Eastern Michigan University is the #1 university for teaching so it would be $120k a year instead of $282k for UM for out of state. Yeah it doesn't have the name behind it but anyone in the state and surrounding areas knows that Eastern has the way better program.
 
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Exterous

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That is absolutely insane. That's more than than I paid for medical school which itself was ludicrously priced. I haven't even been out of school a generation yet.

Student loan system is an absolute disaster and schools are sustained by nonsense policy leading to, reductively, free money - for them.
You'll want to look closely at your state's funding of education because, in many situations, its not free money but using tuition to replace what the state previously supplied. For example in the state of Michigan the state government found pretty direct correlations:
1656935552610.png

Fun fact: Michigan spends more on prisons than supporting Universities
 

HoleInTheEarth

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Not necessarily - esp if you have a good in-state public University. University of Michigan is $35k/year for in-state including tuition. So you can get a 4 year for $115,000 doing 2 years on campus. Out of state is also under $300k for 4 years at the No 1-3 (depending on review) ranked public university.

Several top public schools (These tend to fall in the top 5 public schools) out of state costs for a 4 year degree with zero effort to minimize housing or any financial aid:
UCLA: $272k
UC Berkely: $276k
UM: $282k
UNC: $216k

Most 4 year public (and many private) institutions will let you transfer from a community college at year 2. So you get your gen ed credits at the cheaper community college before transferring. Heck many have specific feeder schools where they offer guarantees on credit transfers

And those are just coarse rankings anyway. If you know your program of choice those might not be the best schools for you. In the state of Michigan Eastern Michigan University is the #1 university for teaching so it would be $120k a year instead of $282k for UM for out of state. Yeah it doesn't have the name behind it but anyone in the state and surrounding areas knows that Eastern has the way better program.
I'm well aware he could go to a lower ranked or in-state public school and pay less. Also, my son is already doing dual enrollment where he is taking college courses (local community college) for his senior year, that will count towards his college credits.

The point really wasn't that all colleges are that expensive, but it's amazing how much some of the top-tier schools cost these days. Heck, even pay $300k for 4 years is pretty out there for a public college. It's not the only colleges we've visited, and we've been to 5-6 others in the $35k+ range and have more lined up. We've also discussed starting at a good in-state college and then transitioning to somewhere with a great pre-med program. It's all fluid at this point and an eye-opener touring the campus and hearing some of these things.
 

Exterous

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I'm well aware he could go to a lower ranked or in-state public school and pay less. Also, my son is already doing dual enrollment where he is taking college courses (local community college) for his senior year, that will count towards his college credits.

The point really wasn't that all colleges are that expensive, but it's amazing how much some of the top-tier schools cost these days. Heck, even pay $300k for 4 years is pretty out there for a public college. It's not the only colleges we've visited, and we've been to 5-6 others in the $35k+ range and have more lined up. We've also discussed starting at a good in-state college and then transitioning to somewhere with a great pre-med program. It's all fluid at this point and an eye-opener touring the campus and hearing some of these things.
I'd argue that a top ranked public school still qualifies as a 'really good school' as you put it. As for that $300k that's if you just take the most expensive possible route for those schools and expend zero effort to bring it down. Not to mention there's very few situations where you really need to go to the Ivy's or similarly expensive private school and, if you are in that area, well your eventual income should more than offset the cost.
 

zinfamous

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For the money invested, research professors provide a much better rate of return than athletics.
yeah, something like 95% of ADs, which are usually separate from the academic departments and shared budgets, pretty much break even in the end. Very few are actually profitable, and even the gross revenue the top programs bring in always pales in comparison to research bucks brought in by 100s of billions $$$ available in NIH and other private or public grant agencies.

I don't really mind the idea of college athletes getting paid, even on top of tuition, because they are still being exploited considering the actual revenue they do bring in to the AD, but I also think the NCAA mostly needs to go or be completely neutered, because this bullshit myth they try to maintain about "non-professional students" is absolute horseshit for the biggest programs. I think the Div 1 sports and teams should be fully separated from the schools themselves, and run as their own independent franchises...that can keep the name of the University for history and fan purposes; but of course they then have to pay a huge annual licensing fee to the University if they want to maintain that name, which they all would of course do. saying...3-5 million a year? whatever their useless, horribly overpaid coaches are typically paid. ;)
 
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