Big news: Apple to use Samsung CPU's in 2015

[Germanic]

Basically the explanation for this is:

Samsung's technology is ahead of TSMC's technology:

• Samsung has already upgraded to the 14nm architecture manufacturing process which is extremely advanced even by future standards
• TSMC is still at 20nm and analysts predict that it won't even be in the process of developing 14nm technology by 2015
• A reconciliation between Samsung and Apple is expected in the future

http://www.gsmarena.com/after_tsmc_affair_apple_might_return_to_samsung_in_2015-news-6382.php

After TSMC affair Apple might return to Samsung in 2015

Apple and Samsung are having very public fights in courts around the globe, but the two companies were working quite well together with Samsung supplying components for Apple's gadgets. Inevitably, the legal spats lead to talk that Apple will be moving on to TSMC for its next chip orders.
Cupertino did indeed cut down the reliance on Samsung, the orders for 20nm Apple A8 chipsets was given to TSMC. This is next year's chipset as TSMC is still working on test 20nm chips, it remains to be seen just what Apple will use for this year's iDevices (presumably TSMC, but on a bigger process).
However, it seems that it's not over between Samsung and Apple - The Korea Economic Daily is reporting that the South Korean giant will be making the next chipsets, the Apple A9, that will power the iPhone 7 (or is it 6S?) in 2015.
Samsung's advanced 14nm process, which is ahead of what TSMC will have to offer in 2015, is named as the reason behind Apple's reconciliation with the Koreans.

Hey so maybe it's not going to be a bad future for both Apple and Samsung after all

Seriously these two companies make the best smartphones, period. Without them, we wouldn't have many other decent options.

 

[Oyeve]

Nice.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

hug it out!

 

[bearxor]

While I agree that Samsung is ahead of TSMC, I had always expected that any move away from Samsung would be gradual. I'd expect TSMC to make lower volume chips and for Apple to let Samsung make the chips for it's high volume devices like the flagship iPhone and iPad products. Expect TSMC to make older A5 chips for the Apple TV and iPod Touch. Maybe A6 chips for new versions of the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini.

I still expect Apple to either purchase or heavily invest in to a fab they could have more control of but, even if they did that right now, it would be another 3-5 years before they'd start making chips for high volume devices out of it.

 

[Jodell88]

While I agree that Samsung is ahead of TSMC, I had always expected that any move away from Samsung would be gradual. I'd expect TSMC to make lower volume chips and for Apple to let Samsung make the chips for it's high volume devices like the flagship iPhone and iPad products. Expect TSMC to make older A5 chips for the Apple TV and iPod Touch. Maybe A6 chips for new versions of the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini.

I still expect Apple to either purchase or heavily invest in to a fab they could have more control of but, even if they did that right now, it would be another 3-5 years before they'd start making chips for high volume devices out of it.

I just cannot see Apple owning their own fab.

 

[bearxor]

Now that Cook's in charge, I think it's more a possibility than ever.

And I don't know if they'd every outright own it, or if they'd become minority partners with someone on it. Like between 30-40% ownership.

 

[dagamer34]

Now that Cook's in charge, I think it's more a possibility than ever.

And I don't know if they'd every outright own it, or if they'd become minority partners with someone on it. Like between 30-40% ownership.

They've already tried to buy up fans from TSMC to exclusively make their own chips, but they said no.

 

[Dari]

Nothing I see in that silly article is official. And, seeing as to how Apple wants nothing to do with Samsung, it makes no sense that they would turn around and give them the business after one silly year. Especially after Samsung raised the price on them last year.

 

[dguy6789]

Doesn't seem surprising at all that Apple would go back to Samsung.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Doesn't seem surprising at all that Apple would go back to Samsung.

Me neither. Jobs is long dead and iOS is copying Android now so the period of lawsuits should be over.

 

[dawheat]

Didn't apple recently go back to samsung for displays after trying to shift away? Not very surprising though I'd expect stronger contractual language around ip walls.

 

[lothar]

While I agree that Samsung is ahead of TSMC, I had always expected that any move away from Samsung would be gradual. I'd expect TSMC to make lower volume chips and for Apple to let Samsung make the chips for it's high volume devices like the flagship iPhone and iPad products. Expect TSMC to make older A5 chips for the Apple TV and iPod Touch. Maybe A6 chips for new versions of the iPhone 5 and iPad Mini.

I still expect Apple to either purchase or heavily invest in to a fab they could have more control of but, even if they did that right now, it would be another 3-5 years before they'd start making chips for high volume devices out of it.

Apple has already tried that and failed.
As long as Morris Chang is the head at TSMC, that's not going to happen.
This isn't the 90's any longer...Most foundries aren't going to accept those types of deals because they want their own flexibility too rather than to be tied to one company.

I don't see a point in Apple buying small companies like UMC and others because they don't have anywhere near enough capacity for Apple, and UMC lags behind Intel, Samsung, IBM and Global Foundries in terms of process technology.

TSMC and Apple recently signed a supply agreement and that agreement took longer than expected to close due to power consumption issues with TSMC’s 20nm process. TSMC also had execution issues at 40nm, 32nm and was slow to ramp at 28nm.

So yes...It makes perfect sense why Apple would go back to Samsung. Apple did the same thing last year as well when Sharp and LG failed LCD quality testing for the iPad after they had hastily dropped Samsung prior.

 

[lothar]

Didn't apple recently go back to Samsung for displays after trying to shift away? Not very surprising though I'd expect stronger contractual language around ip walls.

Walls won't do much. Yeah, yeah...These foundry companies will claim that they will/always create a "firewall" between their foundry business and their other companies, but that rarely ever happens.

There's a reason most companies(Texas Instruments for example) don't deal with Samsung fabs...
But it seems for Apple, the benefits outweigh the risks.
Do you want a reliable partner that can make millions of chips for you while potentially knowing information about your future products or do you want an unreliable partner who won't be able to make enough chips for you to sell your product and earn a profit?

 

[Mopetar]

I think if Apple wanted to get into their own chip fabrication, they'd just buy Intel. They have almost enough cash on hand to do it without problem. They won't for a long list of reasons, but it wouldn't surprise me if they started investing in more chip companies.

 

[Dari]

The notion that Apple will go into foundries is crazy. It's manufacturing and Apple wants nothing to do with that. Also, it is not a core part of their business. They engineer and design, not produce.

 

[Mopetar]

The notion that Apple will go into foundries is crazy. It's manufacturing and Apple wants nothing to do with that. Also, it is not a core part of their business. They engineer and design, not produce.

If it makes business sense they will. They're producing a lot of devices every year, and at some point having their own foundry makes sense from an economic point of view.

I think the biggest hangup at this point is that their traditional devices are x86 and their mobile devices are ARM. If they every go down one path for all devices or figure out how to make some kind of hybrid, they'll purchase their own foundry.

They're already designing chips. Is it so hard to imagine that eventually they may want to make them as well?

 

[bearxor]

The notion that Apple will go into foundries is crazy. It's manufacturing and Apple wants nothing to do with that. Also, it is not a core part of their business. They engineer and design, not produce.

I think that if Apple decides they need to do it in order to protect their business, they will.

I believe that Apple believes that the future is portable devices and not what we would term as desktop or laptop computer currently.

There's already rumors swirling that they're going to buy UMC. The rumors of Apple looking to further control their supply chain are constantly popping up. So much so, that I can't really believe people are dismissing it out right.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that I'm expecting it and won't be too surprised if it does. I think the odds go way down if Apple has to build one from scratch vs buying or heavily investing in an already operating company.

 

[Dari]

I think that if Apple decides they need to do it in order to protect their business, they will.

I believe that Apple believes that the future is portable devices and not what we would term as desktop or laptop computer currently.

There's already rumors swirling that they're going to buy UMC. The rumors of Apple looking to further control their supply chain are constantly popping up. So much so, that I can't really believe people are dismissing it out right.

I'm not saying it's going to happen, just that I'm expecting it and won't be too surprised if it does. I think the odds go way down if Apple has to build one from scratch vs buying or heavily investing in an already operating company.

These foundries require massive investments for every generation of products and just to upkeep. It's not in their interest. Also, Apple is all about efficiency and having a foundry makes them less efficient not more.

Finally they may have the money to make such an investment. But, just like someone taking a picture with an iPad, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Besides, Apple makes small investments and purchasing a foundry goes against their philosophy.

 

[poofyhairguy]

They do have the money to do it though.

 

[bearxor]

These foundries require massive investments for every generation of products and just to upkeep. It's not in their interest. Also, Apple is all about efficiency and having a foundry makes them less efficient not more.

Finally they may have the money to make such an investment. But, just like someone taking a picture with an iPad, just because you can doesn't mean you should. Besides, Apple makes small investments and purchasing a foundry goes against their philosophy.

I don't necessarily completely disagree with you. But... Where there's smoke, there's sometimes there's fire.

They do have the money to do it though.

I don't think they have the talent though. That's why I think they'd be infinitely more likely to invest or outright purchase existing instead of starting fresh.

 

[grkM3]

I knew this would get Dari going Lol

Samsung has got 14 nm on schedule and how awesome would it he if they bought and amd built there CPUs using there new fabs?

 

[lothar]

Buying Intel won't do much for Apple.
Intel and Apple use almost the same amount of CPU chips per year. If Apple bought Intel, they won't have any extra capacity to continue making x86 processors while making one for Apple.

I think I read somewhere that:
iPhone + iPad + Apple TV + iPod + "whatever other Apple products that I forgot" + accounting for a switch to ARM for Mac desktop/laptop = the entire number of x86 processors Intel manufactures per year (mobile+desktop+server).
Basically, you'd just be shifting money elsewhere while making the same amount of profit or even less. You might as well just continue making x86 processors given the fact that Intel already gets a 60% gross margin from making them, how much gross margin increase would Apple be expecting by buying Intel to shift from Samsung? Apple's gross margin is 37%...There's no way buying Intel would increase their gross margin to near 60% that Intel already earns.
Someone breakdown the iSupply numbers for the iPhone...I think the whole components of the iPhone cost $200 with the SoC costing $17.50 or so.

So basically, they'd be purchasing Intel for at least $165 billion(Intel's current market cap is $121 billion and I'd assume Apple would have to pay at least a 25-30% premium to today's closing stock price) just to save $17.5 per iPhone/iPad chip?

Purchasing Intel for $165 billion just to save the $8-10 billion(of that, only $5 billion is processor, the remaining is screens/flash/DRAM which buying Intel won't achieve) per year that Apple already pays to Samsung? It would take 20 years to recoup their investment(and that is only if they don't invest a single dime for any new fabs or upgrade them).

In short; Apple buying Intel, Samsung, or TSMC won't ever happen.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...13882349940500.html+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[Mopetar]

Buying Intel won't do much for Apple.

Buying them outright wouldn't, but if they were to buy some stake in Intel it might be worthwhile.

Intel and Apple use almost the same amount of CPU chips per year. If Apple bought Intel, they won't have any extra capacity to continue making x86 processors while making one for Apple.

The number doesn't much matter. ARM CPUs are much smaller dies, so you can fit more on a wafer. Furthermore, this assumes that Apple wouldn't continue making x86 dies with the newest process while using the older processes for ARM chips.

Really, Apple wouldn't want much from Intel beyond their state-of-the-art fabrication processes. There might be some strategic value in them throwing 10 billion dollars at Intel in order to get access to them in quantity, but it's unlikely that Intel would be willing to play ball unless Apple were somehow willing to switch their entire product lineup to using x86 or some other Intel design.

I would completely write it off, if not for the fact that Apple has switched architectures before on multiple occasions and it probably wouldn't be a huge pain for them to get iOS working on x86. It's still unlikely though, at least at the present time.

In another few years things could change and Intel might have a truly great ARM competitor.

 

[BladeVenom]

If Apple wanted to own their own fabs, they should have bought Globalfoundries when AMD spun it off.

 

[Germanic]

I can see Apple buying TSMC. TSMC is a relatively small company compared to Intel/Samsung.

But Apple buying Intel or Samsung? Wont happen.