Big Medicine driving up prices?

[Darwin333]

You're thinking outside the party lines. Stop that.

lol, I know, how dare me! I must repent before they don't let me back in and I don't get an invitation to the free buffets.

 

[kache]

I'd rather have a public health care system and no regulations nor subsidies on the private sector than have this fascist shit like Obamacare, licensure, and public-private partnerships everywhere.

The problem with having a public health care system is that taxes would go up and then the govt would be trying to compete with the market. So a wall between State and medicine would be nice but it's not going to happen in America since Dr. Paul didn't become President and since his son isn't a libertarian.

Normal taxes would not go up, because with a public healthcare system the government can tax stuff that directly impacts health, like sigarettes, alcohol, drugs, fat foods, ecc... and pump all that money into healthcare.

 

[Incorruptible]

I would be curious to see actual numbers on costs of gov't provided healthcare in the following categories:

- abortions
- elderly
- illegals

I'd bet the illegals expense is magnitudes more expensive than abortions and probably more expensive than elderly. Many illegals use the ER for every healthcare need and leave without paying the bill.

And thats the problem with these morons, they dont even pay into the system and they are such a burden. Those dumb liberals want to keep them so let them pay for the healthcare

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Normal taxes would not go up, because with a public healthcare system the government can tax stuff that directly impacts health, like sigarettes, alcohol, drugs, fat foods, ecc... and pump all that money into healthcare.

But it all quacks like a duck. It's still increasing what govt takes. In the end it's the same. It would be necessary to pay, but thanks for not pretending it would be free.

 

[kache]

But it all quacks like a duck. It's still increasing what govt takes. In the end it's the same. It would be necessary to pay, but thanks for not pretending it would be free.

It would be cheaper than the current insurance system, especially if you don't have auto-destructive tendencies.

 

[techs]

I'd bet the illegals expense is magnitudes more expensive than abortions and probably more expensive than elderly. Many illegals use the ER for every healthcare need and leave without paying the bill.

There are far, far more Americans without health insurance who use the ER and don't pay than there are illegals.

 

[Ausm]

The democrats could have fixed that in the healthcare bill if they weren't in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies themselves.

Well at least the Democrats had the balls to make the move on rectifying our fucked Healthcare system.

 

[tweaker2]

Oh it was "compromise" all right but the compromise was between the actual Obama administration and big Pharma......

But who cares about facts right? Just throw the blue dogs under the bus and throw a little blame at the group that didn't vote for it and were never ever going to vote for it at the same time. Awesome.

Interesting. I'd be more than happy to modify my position if you'd care to provide links.

So, I'm now wondering whose interests the Blue Dog Dems and the Repubs who caved and voted to pass the ACA actually represented in the negotiations? Big Pharma maybe? Oh and let's not forget the health insurance folks. I wonder who represented them, or did they skip over the legislative process and went straight to Obama like you're insinuating Big Pharma did?

 

[Ausm]

Interesting. I'd be more than happy to modify my position if you'd care to provide links.

So, I'm now wondering whose interests the Blue Dog Dems and the Repubs who caved and voted to pass the ACA actually represented in the negotiations? Big Pharma maybe? Oh and let's not forget the health insurance folks. I wonder who represented them, or did they skip over the legislative process and went straight to Obama like you're insinuating Big Pharma did?

Good luck with getting any links.

 

[Darwin333]

Normal taxes would not go up, because with a public healthcare system the government can tax stuff that directly impacts health, like sigarettes, alcohol, drugs, fat foods, ecc... and pump all that money into healthcare.

Those things are already taxed.

 

[Darwin333]

Well at least the Democrats had the balls to make the move on rectifying our fucked Healthcare system.

That wasn't the point, the point is the Democrats or more specifically Obama EXACTLY resemble your following post that you tried to pin solely on the Republicans:

The Republicons love reaming Americans on drug prices that why they have consistently blocked all Legislation to negotiate drug prices for Medicare which would save BILLIONS of dollars.

So evidently the Democrats love reaming Americans on drug prices too? Right?

 

[Darwin333]

Good luck with getting any links.

LOL! I didn't post the link to him because in my previous post I had posted the link to YOU. You are something else..... lmfao

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Google says that the high end of abortion cost $500 and .gov statistics said there were 1.2M abortions in 2007. I don't know how many the .gov paid for but I guarantee it wasn't anywhere close to all. However, if it DID pay for every last one of them that would be $600M so I have to figure we could possibly save somewhere south of $100M. Unfortunately, if the .gov is picking up some or all of the bill it means the person is very likely poor. Since poor AND a child automatically qualifies both the child and parent for medicaid I don't see how it would reduce federal healthcare costs.

Just my .02. I am not trying to argue the morality, simply the numbers.

Abortions... morally I think they are wrong.

At the same time, the people that are getting them done I go *whew* - we avoided a huge ass problem there

 

[Darwin333]

Interesting. I'd be more than happy to modify my position if you'd care to provide links.

So, I'm now wondering whose interests the Blue Dog Dems and the Repubs who caved and voted to pass the ACA actually represented in the negotiations? Big Pharma maybe? Oh and let's not forget the health insurance folks. I wonder who represented them, or did they skip over the legislative process and went straight to Obama like you're insinuating Big Pharma did?

Be happy to, I didn't post the link because I had already posted it in my previous reply to Ausm but here it is again. Just google "Obama pharma deal" if you don't like the actual source (not sure which side likes which ones since I don't give half a damn about either side).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_258285.html

According to the article and everything that I have read they went directly to Obama and made a deal with him. Looks like there is also a leaked email that provides the specifics of the deal. They made some concessions but none that really help the American people as much as allowing us to import drugs or price negotiation.

 

[Ausm]

LOL! I didn't post the link to him because in my previous post I had posted the link to YOU. You are something else..... lmfao

Where?

 

[DAGTA]

There are far, far more Americans without health insurance who use the ER and don't pay than there are illegals.

That wasn't my focus. I think most of the USA (those that don't live in California, Arizona and Texas) would be shocked to learn how much money is lost to illegals in ERs every year.

 

[Darwin333]

Where?

There are only 40 posts in the thread.... Is it that hard to look? Post #16

 

[1prophet]

Ummm, I guess you're specifically referring to the DINO Blue Dog Dems from Repub controlled states? And I'm logically assuming you're also referring to what the Dems had to give up in the spirit of "compromise" to what the Repubs vehemently insisted upon that you're now blaming the Dems for?

They didn't need to give up anything, they could have stuck it in incognito , remember Pelosi said "But we have to pass the [health care ] bill so that you can find out what is in it."

 

[1prophet]

Well at least the Democrats had the balls to make the move on rectifying our fucked Healthcare system.

Fix the economy first (Clinton got in because of the economy stupid, Obama because of the economy and the war) , but alas they didn't learn from history went after their pet projects and agendas and we ended up with a repeat of the 1994 mess where republicans took control of congress.

But it shouldn't surprise anyone, because most corporate brainwashed Americans with their immediate gratification mentality as well as their forgetfulness of history never think things through and end up crying about the injustice of it all and look for someone to blame and today's politicians are a reflection of that.

 

[nehalem256]

Well at least the Democrats had the balls to make the move on rectifying our fucked Healthcare system.

Except the problem is they did lack the balls to make a move rectifying the health system. Arguably what they really did was make it more fucked up.

Considering that as per the OP they have never expressed any desire to fix the root cause of the issue this is not surprising.

 

[Smoblikat]

Thanks to obamacare we can expect more of this.

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Except the problem is they did lack the balls to make a move rectifying the health system. Arguably what they really did was make it more fucked up.

Considering that as per the OP they have never expressed any desire to fix the root cause of the issue this is not surprising.

I agree and the root cause of these issues is addressing the actual reasons for the cost increases which lead to higher prices. What democrats did was avoid taking about the reasons behind the costs of healthcare itself in this nation and instead focused the debate on prices in order to sway the public. Meanwhile the root causes behind the increased costs for healthcare in this nation have not been addressed and thus those costs are worming their way up to the surface in the form of higher prices (in other nations where prices are capped they work their way up by creating shortages in affected industries or they create a need for rationing).

 

[Pneumothorax]

Abortions... morally I think they are wrong.

At the same time, the people that are getting them done I go *whew* - we avoided a huge ass problem there

Yup as long as there's welfare, food stamps, and feeding an unwanted future criminal until 18, I say we make abortion paid by the Feds. It's cheaper than the above. Heck, it'll at least remove another potential Democrat voter.

 

[tweaker2]

Be happy to, I didn't post the link because I had already posted it in my previous reply to Ausm but here it is again. Just google "Obama pharma deal" if you don't like the actual source (not sure which side likes which ones since I don't give half a damn about either side).

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_258285.html

According to the article and everything that I have read they went directly to Obama and made a deal with him. Looks like there is also a leaked email that provides the specifics of the deal. They made some concessions but none that really help the American people as much as allowing us to import drugs or price negotiation.

Thanks Darwin.

 

[Darwin333]

Thanks Darwin.

My pleasure. My point is not that Republicans are good and Dems are bad. Its simply that they are both in the pockets of mainly the same people.