Big engines are back - With fuel efficiency rising, V8 brawn is hot option for cars, trucks

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: Ornery
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Even at higher fuel consumption, I'd rather have a low tech, cheap to fix V8, with some grunt, than a high tech, complex screamer, mounted sideways, with the tranny in the same compartment. Not too keen on CV joints, McPherson struts and timing belts, either.
Coal-fired or wood-fired engine? :p

Grain Fed :p
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Originally posted by: Lifer
Originally posted by: Ornery
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

good idea in theory, very hard to implement.
what's the "market rate" for gas? prices fluctuate so quickly.
how will you determine how much is a fair quota? some people just drive a lot more than others because they have to.
how will you identify an individual? they will have to present ID when purchasing gas?
etc., etc.
We've had gas rationing in the past, during the World War, when stamps were issued.

The market rate is what's on the pump. If you're govt. issued card is used up, you'll pay the going rate plus a fee. Easy!

Some drive more because they have to? Well, la-tee-da! Everybody's bitching about SUVs using too much gas. How about the DINKs living 50 miles from work, so they don't have to live with the dregs in the city? The soccer mom uses a few gallons per week in her SUV, while the tree huggers use a hundred gallons in the same time for their weekly commute! Everybody gets the same share of fuel in my plan. That's fair!
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,381
8,131
126
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Excellent idea. Probably one of the first times we've agreed in a car thread! :p

Only concern would be on businesses. I know that as a company, we probably drive in excess of 3,000,000 miles a year on all of our vehicles/
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
0
0
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Further evidence that tax rates on gasoline are too low in this country.

2003 Corvette Z06
405 HP / 400 ft-lbs
19/28 mpg

2004 S2000
240 HP / 162 ft-lbs
20/35 mpg

2003 Civic Si
160 HP / 132 ft-lbs
26/30 mpg

You were saying?

Viper GTS

Most of those V8s DON'T go into Corvettes. They go into trucks that haul air and SUVs that haul more air.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: Ornery
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Even at higher fuel consumption, I'd rather have a low tech, cheap to fix V8, with some grunt, than a high tech, complex screamer, mounted sideways, with the tranny in the same compartment. Not too keen on CV joints, McPherson struts and timing belts, either.
Coal-fired or wood-fired engine? :p

Grain Fed :p
A nice Chevy 350ci will be just fine, morons.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,862
84
91
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Further evidence that tax rates on gasoline are too low in this country.

naw, just further evidence we should go brutally occupy saudi arabia:) none of that pansy ass humanitarian iraqi sh*t! pimps gotta smack his b*tches around, show em whos boss!
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
0
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: Lifer
Originally posted by: Ornery
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

good idea in theory, very hard to implement.
what's the "market rate" for gas? prices fluctuate so quickly.
how will you determine how much is a fair quota? some people just drive a lot more than others because they have to.
how will you identify an individual? they will have to present ID when purchasing gas?
etc., etc.
We've had gas rationing in the past, during the World War, when stamps were issued.

The market rate is what's on the pump. If you're govt. issued card is used up, you'll pay the going rate plus a fee. Easy!

Some drive more because they have to? Well, la-tee-da! Everybody's bitching about SUVs using too much gas. How about the DINKs living 50 miles from work, so they don't have to live with the dregs in the city? The soccer mom uses a few gallons per week in her SUV, while the tree huggers use a hundred gallons in the same time for their weekly commute! Everybody gets the same share of fuel in my plan. That's fair!

Soccer moms are the ones who live in the suburbs, while "tree huggers" tend to live in cities. At least that's how it works in Texas.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,502
1
81
All it will take is gas to hit $3.00 a gallon for the demand for large V-8s to go south again.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Excellent idea. Probably one of the first times we've agreed in a car thread! :p

Only concern would be on businesses. I know that as a company, we probably drive in excess of 3,000,000 miles a year on all of our vehicles/
Apparantly, businesses don't waste gasoline like SUV drivers, so they could be exempt. I doubt they needed rationing stamps during the war either.

Guess my idea ain't so far fetched...
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: Ornery
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Even at higher fuel consumption, I'd rather have a low tech, cheap to fix V8, with some grunt, than a high tech, complex screamer, mounted sideways, with the tranny in the same compartment. Not too keen on CV joints, McPherson struts and timing belts, either.
Coal-fired or wood-fired engine? :p

Grain Fed :p
A nice Chevy 350ci will be just fine, morons.
No need to be a dick, we're just kidding. Sheesh. I don't give a rat's ass what people drive so long as they don't buy a huge car and then whine about gas prices.

edit- typo.

 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
OK, I take back the moron part, but nothing else I said.

I'd give up 25% of the mileage my current car gets, if I could replace the engine with something with more guts. And I don't mean bolting a turbo or blower on it either.
 

Viper GTS

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
38,107
433
136
Originally posted by: CChaos
Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Further evidence that tax rates on gasoline are too low in this country.

2003 Corvette Z06
405 HP / 400 ft-lbs
19/28 mpg

2004 S2000
240 HP / 162 ft-lbs
20/35 mpg

2003 Civic Si
160 HP / 132 ft-lbs
26/30 mpg

You were saying?

Viper GTS

What exactly is this supposed to represent? It seems you're just picking a few cars that support your point. But, here's what people are actually buying and driving:

Ford F150 16/19

Honda Accord 26/34

Toyota Camry 24/33

What was that supposed to represent? I thought it would be obvious...

Z06 = Chevy's performance jewel, big ass 5.7L V8 (what everybody likes to talk smack about)
S2000/Civic Si = Honda's performance jewels (save for the NSX, which is not a four cylinder), Honda is the master of the 4 cylinder engine

Of course a Civic DX is going to get better gas mileage than the Z06, but the margin is pretty pathetic considering what the vehicles are designed for & the power they produce.

Viper GTS
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
OK, I take back the moron part, but nothing else I said.
Fair enough. :)

I'd give up 25% of the mileage my current car gets, if I could replace the engine with something with more guts. And I don't mean bolting a turbo or blower on it either.
Why not? Either would give you a huge increase in oomph with probably a roughly 25% hit on mileage.

 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
I don't want the added complexity and cost of either of those. A nice big chunk of cubic inches would be cheap to keep (except for mileage), and have plenty of grunt.
 

WinkOsmosis

Banned
Sep 18, 2002
13,990
0
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Excellent idea. Probably one of the first times we've agreed in a car thread! :p

Only concern would be on businesses. I know that as a company, we probably drive in excess of 3,000,000 miles a year on all of our vehicles/
Apparantly, businesses don't waste gasoline like SUV drivers, so they could be exempt. I doubt they needed rationing stamps during the war either.

Guess my idea ain't so far fetched...

I support your rationing idea, but if the government were to implement such a thing, the quota would probably be above what a typical large SUV would get driving 70 miles a day. :|
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Ornery
I don't want the added complexity and cost of either of those. A nice big chunk of cubic inches would be cheap to keep (except for mileage), and have plenty of grunt.
You need to meet a friend of mine. He built up a monster normally-aspirated V8 for his Firebird. He actually had to detune it slightly as it was hard to keep the rear wheels from lighting up off the line. :D

No real tricks, just free-breathing and a lot of CIs.

 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
"quota would probably be above what a typical large SUV would get driving 70 miles a day. "

BINGO! That would do away with a lot of SUVs then, wouldn't it? And, it would do it in a fair fashion. We didn't really discuss how much the added fee would be. If it's only a few cents per gallon, some people would be happy to just pay it.
 

crab

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2001
7,330
19
81
I dunno...fuel rationing and higher taxes would screw over folks like myself who use a big vehicle for a legitimate purpose.
 

KokomoGST

Diamond Member
Nov 13, 2001
3,758
0
0
Originally posted by: Viper GTS

S2000/Civic Si = Honda's performance jewels (save for the NSX, which is not a four cylinder), Honda is the master of the 4 cylinder engine

Well, you forgot to qualify that with NA 4cylinder. Plenty of people would argue that Subaru, Mitsu, and Nissans 4bangers are better boosted apps.

Thanks to good torque, the ZO6 can be geared quite well for everyday driving and efficiency mainly. It's not every V8 that can do that though. I'm hoping that DC's Hemis are going to do the same in RL... good torque and top end power on paper so far.

I still am a bit unsure as to why some companies still continue to move away from boost. A boosted I6 can generally do the job of a V8.
 

LAUST

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
8,957
1
81
I agree, not only that but I life 30 minutes from work and there is no public transportation out
 
Last edited:

Shaftatplanetquake

Diamond Member
Aug 8, 2000
3,089
0
76
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: vi_edit
Honestly, I'd back a gasoline rationing program. Give everybody in the country a quota of gallons per year at the market rate, then add a fee to each gallon used above that. That's fair as fair can be!

Excellent idea. Probably one of the first times we've agreed in a car thread! :p

Only concern would be on businesses. I know that as a company, we probably drive in excess of 3,000,000 miles a year on all of our vehicles/
Apparantly, businesses don't waste gasoline like SUV drivers, so they could be exempt. I doubt they needed rationing stamps during the war either.

Guess my idea ain't so far fetched...

Ok, sure.

Here is another Link to a good news story from BeltwayBuzz.Com- the finest of all fine news sources.
 

CChaos

Golden Member
Mar 4, 2003
1,586
0
0
What do "performance jewels" have to do with fuel efficiency rising? The cars I posted are what people actually bought and drive. I didn't post an Insight or a Prius or a niche model, but 3 of the best selling cars in this country. That's the real state of the V8. Unless I'm missing something people didn't buy 1 million Corvettes last year, they bought a million F150s.

EDIT: Nevermind, I see many of you didn't read the article which is mostly about trucks and SUVs though it mentions the Hemi will be appearing in the new GMs soon. Yet another symptom of peope thinking bigger is better. "Woot, my Blazer gets twice the mpg it got 20 years ago. Now I get 20mpg!" Oh and I got the MPG figures from cars.com.
 

Ornery

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
20,022
17
81
OK, here's the real deal: Ration Books and Victory Gardens: Coping with Shortages
  • ...A pound of steak might cost 12 points while the same amount of hamburger or ham cost only 7; one pound of butter cost 16 points while a pound of margarine cost only 4. Canned sardines cost 12 points, canned milk 1 point, a pound of cheddar cheese went for 8 points. Each jar of baby food cost 1 point and a 14-ounce bottle of catsup was worth a whopping 15 points. The number of points and stamps required per item fluctuated, depending on the supply of the item...
I assume the tree huggers around here, want to penalize the SUV owners for wasting fuel. Kinda sucks when they discover they're using more fuel than the soccer moms, eh?

Guess the SUVs should cut back, so you'll have more, huh? I think that sucks. If you opt to make a long commute to work, you've already accepted a higher transportation cost. This reminds me of running electricity to remote areas of our country. Doesn't make much sense to run miles of cable to just a couple homes, does it? Is it fair to ask everybody else to shoulder the high cost of your utility poles, just because you chose to live in a remote area? I imagine, if those homeowners were willing to share a good portion of that cost, it would be fine. Same with fuel. If there's a shortage, why should you get more than the next guy, just because you chose to live far out?