Yep, and as someone else said, they are around 15k to start.
You can buy a 540cid engine from a reputable builder with more HP than those factory ones.
But I wouldn't put a Chevy engine in this old Pontiac.
You can buy a 540cid engine from a reputable builder with more HP than those factory ones.
But I wouldn't put a Chevy engine in this old Pontiac.
Guess not. Yeah that was a joke BTW.
I have a 64 Dodge with a 450hp 383 under the hood (the dyno sheet says it makes over 400lbs of torque from 3000rpm on up to a max of 478lbs. That was with a misadjusted carb and it has a better ignition now. Probably closer to 500hp now. That's a 383 with aluminum heads. Around 9.25:1 comp ratio. I could put 87 in this thing if I wanted.
Anyway, there's a lot of goodies under this thing - 5spd Tremec, "AlterKtion" coil-over suspension, Wilwood disc brakes etc.
But the good part is the car wasn't cut up in any way. It can all be returned to stock.
Eh, there's no real point in the above post - I was just bragging.
Would be interested in seeing how streetable those motors actually are.
If you want to keep a stock look then don't do the blower. You can get some good numbers with some engine work. Get some Eddelbrock heads and paint them blue heh, heh.
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Cubic Inches.
Yeah, and some people say there's no substitute for them.
Some people.Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Cubic Inches.
Yeah, and some people say there's no substitute for them.
There's no replacement for displacement.
But I'd look at a Chevy engine. You can get a 454 Generation VI crate motor that does 450 hp/ 500 ft lbs stock for $<5000. Spend $2000 in more toys and you could be approaching 700 hp.
But I'd look at a Chevy engine. You can get a 454 Generation VI crate motor that does 450 hp/ 500 ft lbs stock for $<5000. Spend $2000 in more toys and you could be approaching 700 hp.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
Originally posted by: Howard
Some people.Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Cubic Inches.
Yeah, and some people say there's no substitute for them.
There really isn't, power-wise. Put the same gadgets and go-fast parts on a 2.0L and a 5.0L and the 5.0L will produce more power.
I thought bigger displacement engines were more efficient than equivalently powerful supercharged... Supercharging is not very efficient. You cram more air into the engine, but then on the burn stroke, there's less volume before the exhaust valve opens and the rest of the energy is lost.
An engine extracts energy from burning fuel when the piston moves down from the expanding air/fuel. If you're burnign the same amount of fuel, but the cylinder is smaller, more energy is wasted.
Negative.
The more air you can pack into a cylinder, the more fuel you can inject. The result is more power. This is why forced induction works.
The more air you can pack into a cylinder, the more fuel you can inject. The result is more power. This is why forced induction works.
I would say, a stock, hardened motor with NOS. Nothing like a sleeper to make a believer out of the Rice crowd.
But hey, what do I know? I'ld install a BOSE system if that's what you wanted in your HT, too.
But hey, what do I know? I'ld install a BOSE system if that's what you wanted in your HT, too.
I'm a big fan of EFI myself.
You can make a cammed up motor behave on the street with EFI. Very tuneable.
Different fuel maps for the strip or street. Nice and snappy.
You can make a cammed up motor behave on the street with EFI. Very tuneable.
Different fuel maps for the strip or street. Nice and snappy.
Well, of course. For any given [arbitrary] amount of tuning on two engines of the same type, the engine with the larger displacement will always produce more power. But to achieve the same power level, one can decrease the necessary displacement by a large amount.Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Originally posted by: Howard
Some people.Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Cubic Inches.
Yeah, and some people say there's no substitute for them.
There really isn't, power-wise. Put the same gadgets and go-fast parts on a 2.0L and a 5.0L and the 5.0L will produce more power.
Thanks for all the opinions guys. No matter which way I go, I will not do any cutting of any original parts.
You can purchase a crate motor from Original parts group that puts out 475 HP, 500 Lbs.-Ft torque for around $6000.00. And with a cam change, and a couple other minor modifications it can put out around 550 HP and 550+ lbs./ft. torque, in a very streetable engine that runs on pump gas, and sounds brutal through 3" exhaust pipes. I have personal experience with this particular setup. The Edelbrock Aluminum heads make a world of power difference.
OK, a little lesson on volumetric efficiency:
A supercharger does make the engine more efficient. There is a point at which your throttle plates are open enough for the supercharger to draw enough air to be able to compress the mixture in the cylinders ie: actually start producing boost. With a typically sized supercharger, lets say a 8-71 on a 455, this point will be near WOT. At any point below this, the supercharger is, in effect, not doing anything and your engine will act as if it is not supercharged. In fact, the spinning rotors will promote a better mix of fuel and air, and you will many times achieve gas mileage around 3-5% better than stock.
Of course, this all changes when the throttle is open enough to allow the supercharger to start producing boost. Then more air and fuel get pumped in to the chambers than would normally be possible with atmospheric pressure. More air and fuel = More power, and an engine that acts like it has grown into its bigger brother.
If superchargers were not an efficient method of producing power, then the factories would not be using them. And this is not to promote Supercharging vs. Turbocharging vs. Nitrous.
And the whole nitrous thing could be added to either setup later. That is a discussion for another time.
A stroked 400 or 455 pontiac could make 500+ horsepower very easily, while still remaining able to drive cross country with the A/C running and carrying 5 people.
You can purchase a crate motor from Original parts group that puts out 475 HP, 500 Lbs.-Ft torque for around $6000.00. And with a cam change, and a couple other minor modifications it can put out around 550 HP and 550+ lbs./ft. torque, in a very streetable engine that runs on pump gas, and sounds brutal through 3" exhaust pipes. I have personal experience with this particular setup. The Edelbrock Aluminum heads make a world of power difference.
OK, a little lesson on volumetric efficiency:
A supercharger does make the engine more efficient. There is a point at which your throttle plates are open enough for the supercharger to draw enough air to be able to compress the mixture in the cylinders ie: actually start producing boost. With a typically sized supercharger, lets say a 8-71 on a 455, this point will be near WOT. At any point below this, the supercharger is, in effect, not doing anything and your engine will act as if it is not supercharged. In fact, the spinning rotors will promote a better mix of fuel and air, and you will many times achieve gas mileage around 3-5% better than stock.
Of course, this all changes when the throttle is open enough to allow the supercharger to start producing boost. Then more air and fuel get pumped in to the chambers than would normally be possible with atmospheric pressure. More air and fuel = More power, and an engine that acts like it has grown into its bigger brother.
If superchargers were not an efficient method of producing power, then the factories would not be using them. And this is not to promote Supercharging vs. Turbocharging vs. Nitrous.
And the whole nitrous thing could be added to either setup later. That is a discussion for another time.
A stroked 400 or 455 pontiac could make 500+ horsepower very easily, while still remaining able to drive cross country with the A/C running and carrying 5 people.
You're telling me that the supposedly superior fuel atomization allows for 3-5% better mileage even factoring in the parasitic drag?
Interesting logic.
Yes, it can, when the Engine is not under boost conditions (The supercharger is trying to draw more air than the throttle opening will permit) the engine can also act like a pump, 'pulling' on the rotors, so to speak. Most highway driving is done with the intake manifold under vacuum. And there is very little parisitic drag in that case.
This is incorrect, at least to a point. Grab the pulley on the 8-71 blower you mentioned and tell me it doesn't take a good bit of power to turn it.
Also, a blown engine like that has more power all the time. The air is being forced in at all times.
How much depends on what pulleys you're running.
I don't agree at all that it would be anywhere near 3-5 percent more efficient. And even if it was, the power to turn it would cancel out any gains in efficiency.
Sorry, but the GMC blowers aren't known for efficiency.
But really, this conversation is completely irrelevant; You aren't going to get crap for gas mileage in a 500hp engine. It won't matter.
My advice is still to go with the big engine. Less to go wrong, and at the 500hp level, there is plenty to go wrong, believe me.
Another point about forced induction which will help some people here who are trying to understand this topic:
Whether it's turbo or supercharged: All you are doing is making the engine act like it has more displacement than it really does.
That's it.
In reality, forced induction is a way to work around having a limit on displacement. If you're limited to a 350cid small block, and you want power like it's a 454 big block, super/turbocharge or nitrous inject it.
An engine is essentially an air pump, to which you add fuel and spark to make the explosion that drives the pistons.
The more air you can pump, the bigger the explosion, and the more power you have.
You can only get so much air into a certain size engine......without some external help. This is where forced induction comes in. That is, forcing more air into the engine than it could suck in on its own.
Turbo/supercharging, and nitrous are 3 ways of doing just that. They each have benefits and drawbacks, but in reality, all they are doing is forcing more oxygen into the engine so you can add more fuel and have a bigger bang.
Whether it's turbo or supercharged: All you are doing is making the engine act like it has more displacement than it really does.
That's it.
In reality, forced induction is a way to work around having a limit on displacement. If you're limited to a 350cid small block, and you want power like it's a 454 big block, super/turbocharge or nitrous inject it.
An engine is essentially an air pump, to which you add fuel and spark to make the explosion that drives the pistons.
The more air you can pump, the bigger the explosion, and the more power you have.
You can only get so much air into a certain size engine......without some external help. This is where forced induction comes in. That is, forcing more air into the engine than it could suck in on its own.
Turbo/supercharging, and nitrous are 3 ways of doing just that. They each have benefits and drawbacks, but in reality, all they are doing is forcing more oxygen into the engine so you can add more fuel and have a bigger bang.
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