Big 3 CEOs are begging again, this time they're doing it in style.

[SSSnail]

Saw this on the news. They're DRIVING to DC in hybrid cars... Isn't this a shenanigan created to offset their previous criticism? More importantly, will ANYONE buy it? Oh, and of course they're asking for MOAR MONEY. Skoorb is right.

 

[boomerang]

I guess it takes a while for the news to reach the West coast?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2253385&enterthread=y

 

[fleshconsumed]

Maybe now that they finally experience the quality of the cars they build first hand, maybe they will do something about it.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe now that they finally experience the quality of the cars they build first hand, maybe they will do something about it.

I don't think anyone will deny how bad their cars have been. However, the new models are quite different. Ford and GM have done major overhauls of their lines in the past two or three years. Hell, any car that recently replaced an old one makes the old one look like such a joke.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Saw this on the news. They're DRIVING to DC in hybrid cars... Isn't this a shenanigan created to offset their previous criticism? More importantly, will ANYONE buy it? Oh, and of course they're asking for MOAR MONEY. Skoorb is right.

Yea all that money is a LOAN

Lemme spell it out again...L-O-A-N This isn't a free handout like the financial service industry got.

Anyways, its better than taking corporate jets but either way the focus isn't on these silly issues. The focus needs to be that 2 out of the 3 will be bankrupt(Chap 7 or 11) within 1 to 3 months.

And if those 2 go down, so will the 3rd.

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe now that they finally experience the quality of the cars they build first hand, maybe they will do something about it.

I don't think anyone will deny how bad their cars have been. However, the new models are quite different. Ford and GM have done major overhauls of their lines in the past two or three years. Hell, any car that recently replaced an old one makes the old one look like such a joke.

That's mostly true for American cars; not for most other makes.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe now that they finally experience the quality of the cars they build first hand, maybe they will do something about it.

I don't think anyone will deny how bad their cars have been. However, the new models are quite different. Ford and GM have done major overhauls of their lines in the past two or three years. Hell, any car that recently replaced an old one makes the old one look like such a joke.

Today, the "big 3" make cars that are as good as Honda and Toyota cars. You demonstrate the problem well though, perception.

What is funnier, statistically, the average price paid for a car from Honda and Toyota is $3-$4K MORE than the average price paid for a car from the big 3.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe now that they finally experience the quality of the cars they build first hand, maybe they will do something about it.

I don't think anyone will deny how bad their cars have been. However, the new models are quite different. Ford and GM have done major overhauls of their lines in the past two or three years. Hell, any car that recently replaced an old one makes the old one look like such a joke.

Today, the "big 3" make cars that are as good as Honda and Toyota cars. You demonstrate the problem well though, perception.

What is funnier, statistically, the average price paid for a car from Honda and Toyota is $3-$4K MORE than the average price paid for a car from the big 3.

Well, a couple things. It's really a "big 2." Chrysler is, as it stands, pretty screwed. They are not in the same league as, well, anyone. Quite frankly, they're still producing the crap people make fun of American companies for producing.

But yeah, the price paid is one of the major issues. I pointed that out to someone in another thread about VW. They're still pretty healthy (I.e. profitable), but they have major labor and inefficiency issues, but they can still get a premium for their vehicles. GM and Ford can't. They have to take big hits because the perception is still that they sell crap. GM and Ford keep winning awards and winning surveys saying their vehicles are as good or, in some cases, the best in their class, but the perception of junk is still there.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Saw this on the news. They're DRIVING to DC in hybrid cars... Isn't this a shenanigan created to offset their previous criticism? More importantly, will ANYONE buy it? Oh, and of course they're asking for MOAR MONEY. Skoorb is right.

Yea all that money is a LOAN

Lemme spell it out again...L-O-A-N This isn't a free handout like the financial service industry got.

Anyways, its better than taking corporate jets but either way the focus isn't on these silly issues. The focus needs to be that 2 out of the 3 will be bankrupt(Chap 7 or 11) within 1 to 3 months.

And if those 2 go down, so will the 3rd.

it's actually not better than taking corporate jets from anything other than a marketing perspective. when you're paying someone ~$10,000 an hour, wasting 2 days traveling when you could just fly for ~$20,000 ends up costing these companies more.

as i explained in the last thread, at the rates these guys are being paid, just being able to avoid airport security likely paid for the cost of travel by private jet. not to mention all the veeps, secretaries, and assorted whoever that probably went with them. but no, congress had to turn the whole thing into a circus.

Originally posted by: Strk

Well, a couple things. It's really a "big 2." Chrysler is, as it stands, pretty screwed. They are not in the same league as, well, anyone. Quite frankly, they're still producing the crap people make fun of American companies for producing.

no doubt. merc knew they were going to sell chrysler and so put nothing into chrysler's small and midsized cars. the avenger/sebring is possibly the worst car on the market. i have to wonder what sort of 'discount' cerberus was able to get after seeing the new sebring. 'uh, yeah, we're going to need you to come down in price about 2 billion after seeing that piece of trash.'

But yeah, the price paid is one of the major issues. I pointed that out to someone in another thread about VW. They're still pretty healthy (I.e. profitable), but they have major labor and inefficiency issues, but they can still get a premium for their vehicles. GM and Ford can't. They have to take big hits because the perception is still that they sell crap. GM and Ford keep winning awards and winning surveys saying their vehicles are as good or, in some cases, the best in their class, but the perception of junk is still there.

what is ironic is that VW makes not particularly reliable cars. the cars look nice inside and they please all the dashboard strokers, and that is enough for a jetta to sell at a several thousand dollar premium to a focus.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: DeathBUA

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Saw this on the news. They're DRIVING to DC in hybrid cars... Isn't this a shenanigan created to offset their previous criticism? More importantly, will ANYONE buy it? Oh, and of course they're asking for MOAR MONEY. Skoorb is right.

Yea all that money is a LOAN

Lemme spell it out again...L-O-A-N This isn't a free handout like the financial service industry got.

Anyways, its better than taking corporate jets but either way the focus isn't on these silly issues. The focus needs to be that 2 out of the 3 will be bankrupt(Chap 7 or 11) within 1 to 3 months.

And if those 2 go down, so will the 3rd.

it's actually not better than taking corporate jets from anything other than a marketing perspective. when you're paying someone ~$10,000 an hour, wasting 2 days traveling when you could just fly for ~$20,000 ends up costing these companies more.

as i explained in the last thread, at the rates these guys are being paid, just being able to avoid airport security likely paid for the cost of travel by private jet. not to mention all the veeps, secretaries, and assorted whoever that probably went with them. but no, congress had to turn the whole thing into a circus.

Yea I realize that. Like I said the focus needs to be on the issues...instead like you said, congress turned it into a circus.

 

[BoberFett]

For chrissake, let's be logical. CEOs don't punch a clock. They're not paid hourly. A CEO of a major corporation is paid for their genius strategery, a large part of which is public image. When it comes to begging for money from me, you're damn right their time is better spent crammed into a tiny car groveling at the feet of my representative than it is playing golf.

 

[MovingTarget]

Although I think that it is great that they are driving to this meeting with cars that their respective companies make, I think that this "hybrid" thing is a sham. I would be more impressed if said hybrids were more affordable/accessible to the average person or company employee. That being said, they should've travelled in their companies econoboxes, which are much more affordable and available.

 

[Slew Foot]

This is so pathetic, Skoorb (and many others) were right. Now the bailout has grown to 40+ billion, and it looks like theyre going to get it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-...out-Money?tickers=GM,F

Hey Washington, where's my bailout for not being a stupid dumbshit all these years?

 

[compuwiz1]

The original 25B was just a teaser amount to get their foots in the door. Now for the bait and switch.......

Hey, they're in the car business, you know. :laugh:

 

[crystal]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
Maybe now that they finally experience the quality of the cars they build first hand, maybe they will do something about it.

I don't think anyone will deny how bad their cars have been. However, the new models are quite different. Ford and GM have done major overhauls of their lines in the past two or three years. Hell, any car that recently replaced an old one makes the old one look like such a joke.

Today, the "big 3" make cars that are as good as Honda and Toyota cars. You demonstrate the problem well though, perception.

What is funnier, statistically, the average price paid for a car from Honda and Toyota is $3-$4K MORE than the average price paid for a car from the big 3.

It calls brand loyalty. Let say 10 yrs ago, their POS car gave them so much headache they went out and brought a foreign car that serves them well all that time. Now it is time to get a new car, would they likely pick something they know from personal experience a good product or pick something else because some statistic said it was as good? The big 3 need to put something else that will blow the competitors out of the water before the consumers will take a second look at their products. Good or as good will not cut it.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
This is so pathetic, Skoorb (and many others) were right. Now the bailout has grown to 40+ billion, and it looks like theyre going to get it.

http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-...out-Money?tickers=GM,F

Hey Washington, where's my bailout for not being a stupid dumbshit all these years?

LOAN LOAN LOAN LOAN LOAN.

Yes it's a 'bailout' but no it's not free money.

Guess what? They have to pay it BACK unlike AIG/Citi/etc who just took the money and ran off to hoard more.

 

[BoberFett]

Loans are only loans when it gets paid back. Do you honestly believe we can keep these companies alive at the rate they're losing money?

 

[Jaskalas]

If these large companies ?too big to fail? are bought and paid for, then it is ALL of us who will fail next. Cut your losses now before we?re all dragged under, if our $5 trillion hasn't already.

 

[CrackRabbit]

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Loans are only loans when it gets paid back. Do you honestly believe we can keep these companies alive at the rate they're losing money?

Ford, yes.
GM, possibly. If they do some major restructuring, like killing a couple of brands.
Chrysler, No way in hell.

 

[Zedtom]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Loans are only loans when it gets paid back. Do you honestly believe we can keep these companies alive at the rate they're losing money?

Ford, yes.
GM, possibly. If they do some major restructuring, like killing a couple of brands.
Chrysler, No way in hell.

Keeping a company alive that has too much excess inventory usually requires a clearance sale. If they want to get the cash flowing again they are going to have to cut prices.

Ford: Sell Saab.
GM: Sell Volvo, spin off Saturn, (that has a nice ring to it!)
Chrysler: Get lost! Every private company in America will be looking for a handout.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Loans are only loans when it gets paid back. Do you honestly believe we can keep these companies alive at the rate they're losing money?

Ford, yes.
GM, possibly. If they do some major restructuring, like killing a couple of brands.
Chrysler, No way in hell.

Chrysler has been on death row for some time now. Ever since Daimler bailed, they are nothing but a shell of their former self, who's assets...or should I say liabilities are being controlled by a holding company. [Cerberus]

When I heard about the new limited lifetime powertrain warranty, I could not help but laugh, knowing they would never be around to honor it.

So as far as Chrysler, it's a dead horse. I agree that Ford has the best shot at making a recovery. GM, could as well but I am not that confident.

 

[todpod]

Originally posted by: Zedtom

Originally posted by: CrackRabbit

Originally posted by: BoberFett
Loans are only loans when it gets paid back. Do you honestly believe we can keep these companies alive at the rate they're losing money?

Ford, yes.
GM, possibly. If they do some major restructuring, like killing a couple of brands.
Chrysler, No way in hell.

Keeping a company alive that has too much excess inventory usually requires a clearance sale. If they want to get the cash flowing again they are going to have to cut prices.

Ford: Sell Saab.
GM: Sell Volvo, spin off Saturn, (that has a nice ring to it!)
Chrysler: Get lost! Every private company in America will be looking for a handout.

GM has Saab and Ford has Volvo