Biden's shotgun marriages of Vaccine companies / Vaccines for all US adults by end of May

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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
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You mean don't politicize the Trump vaccine?

I am so glad to stop hearing about that Turd everyday.
You were hearing about him because he had the bully pulpit, the WH, not because he had any qualifications, which he really didn't. He's gotten the hook (which he'll never admit because his brains are cheesecake). So, we don't hear from him much. "SO GLAD."
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
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The thing we can't forget, we just can't vaccinate the United States, we have to vaccinate the world. Other wise it will just mutate into something that is much worse, such as the South African variant. Pfizer is not a good option for vaccinating countries that do not have the infrastructure that we have.
Pfizer changed their protocols, their vaccine AFAIK now can be kept at temperatures similar to Moderna. J&J still needs refrigeration.

How the mutant strains versus vaccines plays out isn't figured out yet. They need more data. Meantime, the vaccine makers are working on changing their vaccines and developing boosters. The mRNA vaccines are particularly easy to tweak this way. AFAIK, the vaccine remains the same except they change the RNA pallet to reflect the strains out there.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
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This is the professional POV. I'm a "layman," although rather educated and pretty much paying a ton of attention to all this stuff.

There's so much info swirling around now about covid long haulers, and AFAIK little definitive knowledge. I did a fair amount of looking into that the last few days. Early on the emphasis (in the media at least) was deaths, right? The talk was, well, most people recover pretty quick, don't need hospitalization. Many even asymptomatic, big deal. But what I'm seeing now is that a fair to high percentage of people who contract covid-19 do not quickly recover but have lingering symptoms, months on, some for over a year and thinking is that many of these may well never recover completely from the infection. What exactly is going on there is mysterious. If it isn't, they're not letting on, at least I'm not seeing.

I'm seeing statistics like 10-30%, even higher for people who are never hospitalized, even people who never experience more than mild symptoms, even asymptomatic people.

Does vaccination exempt a person from long covid? I'm seeing no discussion of this and I figure it's because it's not clear if not unknown.

So, I'm frankly fearful of contracting covid-19, even after vaccination (I got my 2nd Moderna shot 3 days ago). So, I'm 100% certain (they say) that I won't need hospitalization, much less die if I get it. But, do they know if I'm protected from long-covid? I've heard no such thing.

Then there's the question of how this plays with the various vaccines and strains. Herd immunity is going to help, for sure. We've got a medical war on our hands.

Where did that 10-30% number come from? I'm sure some of that is just hypochondriacs seeking attention. The rest is most likely people who've been damaged, not that they have ongoing infection.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,007
8,041
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But, do they know if I'm protected from long-covid? I've heard no such thing.

I imagine that was answered by the concept of the vaccines reducing the likelihood of you having a severe case. Less severe means less damage done to the body during infection. No gaurentees in life, but it surely offers a considerable amount of increased immune response / "protection" from COVID.
 

Pohemi

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2004
9,457
12,991
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The rest is most likely people who've been damaged, not that they have ongoing infection.
I imagine that was answered by the concept of the vaccines reducing the likelihood of you having a severe case. Less severe means less damage done to the body during infection. No gaurentees in life, but it surely offers a considerable amount of increased immune response / "protection" from COVID.
Yeah the issue he was referring to is the continued symptoms, not a continued infection and viral-shedding, etc.

Many of those who've been hospitalized at some point with COVID-19 are having continuing issues including respiratory, cardiovascular, blood clotting, etc. that goes on long after the actual viral infection is done and over with.

That's a big concern now because it can affect so MANY different systems and organs in the body, and it's only been a year since the beginning of the outbreak. We're only starting to see and understand anything on a long-term scale.

You are correct I think in that the less severe the initial infection is, the less likely and severe any lingering, long-term effects will be in those subjects.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
Where did that 10-30% number come from? I'm sure some of that is just hypochondriacs seeking attention. The rest is most likely people who've been damaged, not that they have ongoing infection.
They do not know what's going on with the long haulers. Do your own research and do not jump to conclusions. The figures I posted (and you quoted) are quite conservative, actually. The figures for people who were hospitalized range from 50-80% becoming long haulers. Just because they don't detect the virus in these sufferers does not mean it isn't in their bodies. Many viruses hide in the human body for decades, for life actually, including the one that gives you shingles (which I had, incidentally, a very jolly affliction). You are apt to get that sometime later in life if you were exposed to chickenpox.

One of the sources I have accessed:

From the above is the following quote. Hit the links within it for in depth studies:
Published studies (see here and here) and surveys conducted by patient groups indicate that 50% to 80% of patients continue to have bothersome symptoms three months after the onset of COVID-19 — even after tests no longer detect virus in their body.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
I imagine that was answered by the concept of the vaccines reducing the likelihood of you having a severe case. Less severe means less damage done to the body during infection. No gaurentees in life, but it surely offers a considerable amount of increased immune response / "protection" from COVID.
That's just it. The severity of infection is not indicative of a person's probability of becoming a long covid sufferer. You're jumping to conclusions. Do your own research, this information is out there, that's the easy part, those kinds of statistics. The data they need to figure out what's really going on hasn't been gathered and analyzed yet.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
You are correct I think in that the less severe the initial infection is, the less likely and severe any lingering, long-term effects will be in those subjects.
You too are jumping to conclusions, using your lay intuition. It's not really panning out like that according to information I dug up the last few days.

From that Harvard Health link I posted in post #31 here:

Who is more likely to become a long hauler?
Currently, we can’t accurately predict who will become a long hauler. As an article in Science notes, people only mildly affected by COVID-19 still can have lingering symptoms, and people who were severely ill can be back to normal two months later.

However, continued symptoms are more likely to occur in people over age 50, people with two or three chronic illnesses, and, possibly, people who became very ill with COVID-19.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173

Some relatively young people with no health risks and in terrific shape are suffering mightily and long after covid infection, and without having what was thought to be a severe case.
 
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brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
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Bunch of news here (shotgun marriages):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...ohnson-and-johnson-covid-vaccine-partnership/


It also includes:
Johnson & Johnson (USA) + Merck (USA)
Johnson & Johnson + Sanofi ( France )
Pfizer ( USA) / BioNtech ( Germany ) + Sanofi ( France )
Pfizer / BioNtech + Novartis ( Switzerland )
Johnson & Johnson + Emergent ( USA, Netherlands, India )
Johnson & Johnson + Grand River Aseptic ( USA )
Johnson & Johnson + Catalent ( USA )
Moderna ( USA ) + Catalent ( USA )
AstraZeneca ( UK/India ) + Calalent ( USA )


also, we have news now that:
https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...pply-for-all-adults-by-may-prioritizes-teache



--------------------------
forum rules require I provide my own commentary:

This is real crisis leadership. Solving problems, rather then trying to convince everyone their is no problem.

By repeatedly invoking the defense production act, and leveraging international partners and allies Biden has done more to end this disaster in last 40 days then Trump ever did.

The USA is back, and the Biden administration is demonstrating what real leadership is.
Impressive stuff considering the vaccine didn't exist until after 1/20/2021.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
34,007
8,041
136
https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/the-tragedy-of-the-post-covid-long-haulers-2020101521173

Some relatively young people with no health risks and in terrific shape are suffering mightily and long after covid infection, and without having what was thought to be a severe case.

But weeks pass, and while the worst symptoms are gone, you’re not your old self — not even close. You can’t meet your responsibilities at home or at work: no energy. Even routine physical exertion, like vacuuming, leaves you feeling exhausted. You ache all over. You’re having trouble concentrating on anything, even watching TV; you’re unusually forgetful; you stumble over simple calculations. Your brain feels like it’s in a fog.

That sounds a lot like an elderly relative's long term condition after being hospitalized and treated for sepsis in 2016.

Some infections just do so much damage the body cannot recover. Discovering the root cause, physical location of the damage to elicit such a decline may prove useful in discovering if the condition can be treated.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
35,248
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Impressive stuff considering the vaccine didn't exist until after 1/20/2021.

Don’t be a moron and fall for that retarded Facebook post. Biden did not claim there wasn’t a vaccine when he took office, he claimed there were no vaccines in reserve which is typically done for emergency usage.
Yes Biden played loose with the facts, yes he chose poor words to describe what he mean. No it wasn’t an outrageous lie like the former President would tell.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,086
146
Bunch of news here (shotgun marriages):
https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...ohnson-and-johnson-covid-vaccine-partnership/


It also includes:
Johnson & Johnson (USA) + Merck (USA)
Johnson & Johnson + Sanofi ( France )
Pfizer ( USA) / BioNtech ( Germany ) + Sanofi ( France )
Pfizer / BioNtech + Novartis ( Switzerland )
Johnson & Johnson + Emergent ( USA, Netherlands, India )
Johnson & Johnson + Grand River Aseptic ( USA )
Johnson & Johnson + Catalent ( USA )
Moderna ( USA ) + Catalent ( USA )
AstraZeneca ( UK/India ) + Calalent ( USA )


also, we have news now that:
https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...pply-for-all-adults-by-may-prioritizes-teache



--------------------------
forum rules require I provide my own commentary:

This is real crisis leadership. Solving problems, rather then trying to convince everyone their is no problem.

By repeatedly invoking the defense production act, and leveraging international partners and allies Biden has done more to end this disaster in last 40 days then Trump ever did.

The USA is back, and the Biden administration is demonstrating what real leadership is.

apparently, when you invoke DPA, you actually have to do it, not just say you did, do nothing, and assume that enough people will believe you are doing something. (well, 74million did believe that lie, still do, I'm sure, so that's the kind of shit that surrounds us)
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,086
146
I've always hated the term "conservative." I've developed antibodies to it. I may not have a conservative cell in my body. I've never understood how "conservatives" managed to develop a hate "liberal" ethos. Just boggles my mind.

Newt turned them all into newts.
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,409
8,700
136
The USA is back, and the Biden administration is demonstrating what real leadership is.
While Trump was tweeting and going to endless pandemic defying rallies leading up the election, Biden was quietly campaigning from home and organizing behind the scenes, fully realizing that his task once elected (the polls had him majorly front running all the way to the wire) was to do just that:

...demonstrate what real leadership is.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
1,215
126
Don’t be a moron and fall for that retarded Facebook post. Biden did not claim there wasn’t a vaccine when he took office, he claimed there were no vaccines in reserve which is typically done for emergency usage.
Yes Biden played loose with the facts, yes he chose poor words to describe what he mean. No it wasn’t an outrageous lie like the former President would tell.
I like how you view misstatements by those 2 Presidents.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,248
16,716
136
I like how you view misstatements by those 2 Presidents.

Did Mexico build & happily pay for a boarder wall?
Did Covid/China flu magically disappear last summer?
Did the former President replace ACA with something that is cheaper and easier to understand and has lower deductibles and more hospital choices and more Doctor choices and everyone would be covered?
Did Hillary get locked up?
Yeah there is a difference.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
36,129
30,521
136
You mean don't politicize the Trump vaccine?

I am so glad to stop hearing about that Turd everyday.
Oh no you don't. I hope you remember:
EwKNxHEXEAA0La3.jpg
 
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