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Biden to announce vaccination mandate for all federal employees and contractors today

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
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Today Jul 29, Biden is supposed to announce that federal employees and contractors will have to be vaccinated or face consequences - which are not supposed to include firing - but more like masking and testing (perhaps at their own expense). Many private companies are already going this route. These include Facebook, Google, Netflix, BlackRock, Morgan Stanley, Saks Fifth Avenue, the Washington Post, Ascension Health, MGM, and Lyft. Each of these has it's own requirements.

My question, and I have searched without coming up with any definitive answer, is, for this purpose, do US congressional members and US Senators count as federal employees? If they do, I'm not sure what kind of plans for enforcement are envisioned for these groups. So far there are Republicans who are already not complying with the current masking requirements and repercussions are nil. There is one Republican Congressman who refuses to abide by the masking rule and is being fined for it but can't have his salary garnished because he upped his tax withholding so that he only gets $1 in salary (which won't help stem the spread of covid but does get points for clever).






 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.


 
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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
9,238
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.
Unless, you know, you still want to try to avoid getting infected still. Hardly insanity, unless you're just injecting your own ego into everything as usual.
 

NWRMidnight

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
1,617
1,187
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.


Being vaccinated doesn't mean you can't get the virus, nor does it mean you are not a carrier of the virus to pass it on to the unvaccinated. But of course, if you understood this, and understood the science behind a vaccination, and what it's purpose is, you wouldn't be here posting this crap.
 

Saylick

Golden Member
Sep 10, 2012
1,056
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.
Vaccines aren't some kind of magic bullet. The best ones are only 95% effective at best at preventing serious complications and are not a guarantee of protection. Wearing a mask after getting vaccinated is called redundancy. Why have air bags and seat belts if cars are designed with crumple zones? Why have backup systems in airplanes when one will suffice? Why peddle bullshit when everyone on the forums mocks you when you do?
 

ewdotson

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2011
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My question, and I have searched without coming up with any definitive answer, is, for this purpose, do US congressional members and US Senators count as federal employees?
I'm reasonably confident that within this context, "federal employees" means folks working for the executive branch. The president wouldn't have any authority to set rules like this for the legislative or judicial branches.
 
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dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
29,139
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.


Thanks for the advice, Tucker.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,514
12,051
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I'm reasonably confident that within this context, "federal employees" means folks working for the executive branch. The president wouldn't have any authority to set rules like this for the legislative or judicial branches.
This is correct but all the executive agencies and contractors does add up to millions of people.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,370
25,126
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.
As others have mentioned being vaccinated doesn't mean you can't be infected or transmit the virus, and wearing a mask is incredibly easy and low cost. The people whining about it are just entitled babies.

In addition, mask mandates and wearing a mask is very helpful for other people as universal masking means they don't have to spend time and energy figuring out who is vaccinated and maskless, therefore low risk, and who is unvaccinated and maskless, therefore high risk.

None of this is hard to understand if you take 30 seconds to think about it, but I guess thinking isn't your strong suit.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,514
12,051
136
Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.


Following host country health policy seems like a reasonable choice when visiting.

https://www.cnnphilippines.com/news/2021/6/21/Palace-wearing-face-shields-outside-not-mandatory.html

Duterte says face shields must still be worn indoors, outdoors
 
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ewdotson

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2011
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This is correct but all the executive agencies and contractors does add up to millions of people.
Oh, sure! It's not a trivial thing at all. I admit I'm a bit worried about the possibility of an immediate court challenge, but IANAL.
 

MovingTarget

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2003
8,992
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Good. While this step by the Biden administration is admirable, I for one look forward to the day when vaccination against Covid-19 is mandatory, the only exceptions being strictly medical. I am constantly aghast at how much our society has been collectively shooting itself in the foot during the pandemic when it comes to preventing disease. We need to get our acts together here because it is only a matter of time before a virus far worse comes along.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,370
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Oh, sure! It's not a trivial thing at all. I admit I'm a bit worried about the possibility of an immediate court challenge, but IANAL.
The courts have really become a national disgrace in the last year in terms of how they have gutted longstanding government powers to control disease. Just totally shameful. The unions have also beshitted themselves, saying they will fight vaccine mandates. Apparently the unions are more concerned about the right to endanger your coworkers than the right to be safe at work.

I think a good compromise/court strategy is to do what NYC and California are doing. Say everyone has a choice between weekly (or I would say maybe they should up it to daily) COVID tests or the vaccine. It's up to you.
 

NWRMidnight

Golden Member
Jun 18, 2001
1,617
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Oh, sure! It's not a trivial thing at all. I admit I'm a bit worried about the possibility of an immediate court challenge, but IANAL.
On what grounds? It's already been determined that employers can require vaccinations, all federal employees are employed by the federal government. Also, Biden's mandate doesn't require them to be vaccinated, but if they chose not to, they are required to be tested every week and follow other protocols. Point is, they can file all the suits they want, they won't go anywhere.
 
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Stokely

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2017
1,117
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The big difference from the past is that these vaccines haven't (yet) been fully approved. Legally it doesn't matter, but that seems to be the big excuse being used.

Once they are approved, I wonder if we'll see a huge landslide where all the cowardly employers don't want to be the last ones holding out.

Of course, in states like FL where I live, the Governor will fight to the death over masks and vaccines--against them--and surely both reward any companies that refuse to mandate them and try to punish those that do. Welcome to life in a red state, where science and public safety is the enemy.
 

allisolm

Elite Member
Administrator
Jan 2, 2001
23,970
2,209
136
Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.
I didn't ask anyone who was vaccinated to wear a mask. I don't believe the Biden plan to be announced asks anyone who was vaccinated to wear a mask. The companies who have instituted policies aren't asking anyone who has been vaccinated to wear a mask. As far as I can tell, the representative I mentioned is not vaccinated. I don't know what you're so het up about, but you do you. It's what we've come to expect.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
27,898
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Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.


Long as you take people's word they have been vaccinated it isn't. If unvaccinated shitheads would be honest we wouldn't have to do this.

It's a science and a morality thing. We fail on the latter.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
67,522
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I think one person's right not to wear a mask or get a vaccination ends when it threatens other peoples' right not be be infected by a deadly disease. I believe also that what constitutes a deadly threat to the lives of others if claimed as a personal right can easily be determined by objective science and that those who favor their own personal desires over the public welfare can't be counted on as being objective and must be forced to comply by the will of scientifically objective people. Conservatives always judge things by whether they flatter their egos whereas the scientifically and objectivity trained look as the real facts. It isn't right to have the emotionally selfish and immature dictating national policy and because they can be vicious about what they imagine is their right they need force of law as a countermeasure.

They will, of course, see this as the imposition of dictatorship because they project their own will to dictate their right to kill others in lieu of feeling any personal shame for their childish egotism.

If there were any real threat of dictatorship it would take a completely different form. The scientific community would order their extermination to protect the gene pool under the pretext their stupidity was genetic, a simple projection of what they actually will do to themselves if scientists say, sure you get to kill your self your family and your neighbors. Have at it. Refuse vaccinations.
 
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balloonshark

Diamond Member
Jun 5, 2008
5,018
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Doesn't a government or business have a right to ensure that it's able to keep performing its duties? I mean doesn't the right want to continue protecting our borders and fighting terrorism or are they going to continue to be hypocrites about everything?
 
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Amol S.

Golden Member
Mar 14, 2015
1,398
314
136
Wearing a mask after vaccination is pretty much the definition of insanity.

At that point you aren't after science or facts - you're just a moron that doesn't understand what vaccinations are or how they function.


Anyhow, forcefully doing this hasn't - and will continue to not work. People want a public perception of safety - and doing things like wearing a mask after being vaccinated is a surefire way to indicate to individuals that it isn't even worth it.


Has that person taken the vaccine? Philippines require masks, so a no mask mandate only would apply to US, not Phillipenes.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,751
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I didn't ask anyone who was vaccinated to wear a mask. I don't believe the Biden plan to be announced asks anyone who was vaccinated to wear a mask. The companies who have instituted policies aren't asking anyone who has been vaccinated to wear a mask. As far as I can tell, the representative I mentioned is not vaccinated. I don't know what you're so het up about, but you do you. It's what we've come to expect.
YOU didn't but the white-house is.
1627591638977.png



See this for why you are all going against the science and into the realm of stupidity.

 

ewdotson

Golden Member
Oct 30, 2011
1,295
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On what grounds? It's already been determined that employers can require vaccinations, all federal employees are employed by the federal government. Also, Biden's mandate doesn't require them to be vaccinated, but if they chose not to, they are required to be tested every week and follow other protocols. Point is, they can file all the suits they want, they won't go anywhere.
I'd assume some sort of obviously fallacious privacy grounds or the like. To be clear, I don't think a suit along those lines would have much of a chance of succeeding, but as fski kind of alludes to - all it takes is it running into the wrong FedSoc asshole to delay its implementation. And this is a place where timelines matter.
 

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