Biden moves to mandate vaccines for large part of workforce

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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,161
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Too bad our wingnut supreme court will probably 100% definitely axe it.

I don't think so. This concerns public health and not nor should it be political. We have many who try to make this political but if and when this hits the Supreme Court I'd think the high could will side with the good of the country and safety of the citizens. Kinda like with Obamacare, the court knew in reality that Obamacare was not political, and to rule against Obamacare would have placed many Americans in danger of losing health insurance entirely. The court did the right thing with ACA, and they will do the right thing with Covid. Get those mother F-kers vaccinated.

There are so many days and instances where America should feel damn lucky and grateful that Joe Biden is the president and Donald Trump IS NOT. This Biden speech was just another example of a president doing the right thing even if some Americans are too stupid to see it.

All I hear from my Trumpie family is how mad they are because StarBucks is understaffed and the wait is too long, or the shelves at Walmart need to be better stocked, or that restaurants are closing way too early, and how prices are going out of control. Well..................... this could all be avoided and the situation much improved if only THOSE DAMN COMPLAINERS would get vaccinated so that things could return back to normal. Shelves once again stocked, restaurants staffed, drivers delivering, and prices lowering. Like, THERE IS a connection here.... people. You ignorant ass anti-vaxxers.

Basically, Joe Biden told them ignorant asses to go fuck themselves, those anti maskers and anti vaxxer's. Once again, a great speech from a great president.
 

nOOky

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2004
3,001
2,012
136
I have thought all along that we needed a federal mandate to combat the pandemic. Think of all the lives that could have been saved.

If you are old enough and do not have a medical condition that would prohibit getting a vaccination you should be required to get one.


Have you been drinking? I was chatting with our head of HR the other day. We are still in a bind as far as hiring employees, so the worry is that we'd lose people as some of our workers would refuse the test and would be forced to quit. Ideally if that was the situation everywhere that would eliminate that, but these are private companies, not yet requiring employees to be vaccinated in this state (MN).
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
50,768
136
Have you been drinking? I was chatting with our head of HR the other day. We are still in a bind as far as hiring employees, so the worry is that we'd lose people as some of our workers would refuse the test and would be forced to quit. Ideally if that was the situation everywhere that would eliminate that, but these are private companies, not yet requiring employees to be vaccinated in this state (MN).
That’s the benefit of a federal mandate though, it applies to everyone. (Or in this case a very large percentage of people)

So unless they are going to quit and stop working entirely they are stuck with vaccination and testing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
50,768
136
There is no mainstream religion that has dictates against vaccines.
While this is true, there’s no requirement for it to be a mainstream religion, only that your belief is ‘sincerely held’ and let’s be honest, that’s almost impossible to disprove. This is of course the obvious flaw in recent Supreme Court decisions that let religious people opt out of any laws they don’t feel like following. You can just make it up!

That being said, that’s why places are removing religious exemptions for vaccines or making those exemptions unpaid leave, etc. We won’t fire you, you just won’t get paid anymore and won’t come to work indefinitely. There’s no requirement for a religious exemption.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,671
28,824
136
I heard Biden mentioned Fox News for having a strict vaccine policy. He should have also said...

"despite the contradicting messages from some of their on air people"
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,671
28,824
136
While this is true, there’s no requirement for it to be a mainstream religion, only that your belief is ‘sincerely held’ and let’s be honest, that’s almost impossible to disprove. This is of course the obvious flaw in recent Supreme Court decisions that let religious people opt out of any laws they don’t feel like following. You can just make it up!

That being said, that’s why places are removing religious exemptions for vaccines or making those exemptions unpaid leave, etc. We won’t fire you, you just won’t get paid anymore and won’t come to work indefinitely. There’s no requirement for a religious exemption.
If the federal government can dictate to the Rastafarians I don't see a problem with vaccines for any religion
 
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Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
Have you been drinking? I was chatting with our head of HR the other day. We are still in a bind as far as hiring employees, so the worry is that we'd lose people as some of our workers would refuse the test and would be forced to quit. Ideally if that was the situation everywhere that would eliminate that, but these are private companies, not yet requiring employees to be vaccinated in this state (MN).

Same here. Lots of concern on moving on a mandate, particularly with the tight labor market, otoh lots of concern with loss of employees with the continued threat of covid and all the uncertainty around when/how this actually ends and what an even more threatening variant could mean.

We've had a number of cases amongst employees and a few hospitalizations. Fortunately nothing linked to workplace directly, we've put in a robust response, but nobody wants to keep pushing it and people are ready to get back to normal operations (as well as be able to bring more people back on site.)

I'm in the science industry, and we're also seeing a number of companies already moving fwd with mandates, but it's slow and uneven.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
50,768
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If the federal government can dictate to the Rastafarians I don't see a problem with vaccines for any religion
I agree with you and courts have upheld vaccine mandates without religious exemptions. That being said, this one makes national Republicans mad so I'm not convinced SCOTUS won't just make up some new law to declare it invalid because reasons.
 

SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,395
6,144
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I don't think so. This concerns public health and not nor should it be political. We have many who try to make this political but if and when this hits the Supreme Court I'd think the high could will side with the good of the country and safety of the citizens. Kinda like with Obamacare, the court knew in reality that Obamacare was not political, and to rule against Obamacare would have placed many Americans in danger of losing health insurance entirely. The court did the right thing with ACA, and they will do the right thing with Covid. Get those mother F-kers vaccinated.

Supposedly Roberts was going to overturn the ACA through ruling the mandate unconstitutional and just keep the Medicaid expansion but Ginsburg traded the Medicaid expansion for the main law surviving. No way I trust a court where that alcoholic wingnut Kavanaugh in the swing vote.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
50,768
136
Supposedly Roberts was going to overturn the ACA through ruling the mandate unconstitutional and just keep the Medicaid expansion but Ginsburg traded the Medicaid expansion for the main law surviving. No way I trust a court where that alcoholic wingnut Kavanaugh in the swing vote.
I think this basic framing is right. We need to stop pretending that some sort of consistent and coherent interpretation of the law is what drives SCOTUS decisions, it's a political process, the same as Congress.
 
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SteveGrabowski

Diamond Member
Oct 20, 2014
7,395
6,144
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I think this basic framing is right. We need to stop pretending that some sort of consistent and coherent interpretation of the law is what drives SCOTUS decisions, it's a political process, the same as Congress.

Kavanaugh is as much a partisan as Alito and Uncle Thomas are. Disgusting that a hitman on Kenneth Starr's bullshit conspiratorial fishing trip into Clinton is a supreme court justice for life.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,671
28,824
136
Supposedly Roberts was going to overturn the ACA through ruling the mandate unconstitutional and just keep the Medicaid expansion but Ginsburg traded the Medicaid expansion for the main law surviving. No way I trust a court where that alcoholic wingnut Kavanaugh in the swing vote.
That's the kind of shit going on in the halls of Congress. No way it should happen on the bench.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
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Kavanaugh is as much a partisan as Alito and Uncle Thomas are. Disgusting that a hitman on Kenneth Starr's bullshit conspiratorial fishing trip into Clinton is a supreme court justice for life.
He could be, but being a bigger hack than Alito is essentially impossible because Alito has already maxed that part out. Thomas is an obvious Republican partisan but there are a very small number of issues he appears to have genuine principles on that occasionally lead him to side against the wishes of the Republican Party. I feel like if I were to use a rubric of 'what Republicans want' I would predict Thomas like 95% of the time, but Alito 100%. To me he is the absolute worst justice, and that's a title with a lot of competition.
 
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Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,215
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Once again with the bullshit religious exemption.

As I have said before, I'd be fine with it if it ALSO came with an exemption that you can't receive modern medical care. You can sit with your yogi/priest/shaman/whatever and have them help you pray away the covid.

Moronic.

Not that any of it probably matters here in FL and other shitheaps like Texas. They'll fight this tooth and nail and find a way to string it out to the point where it won't happen. I wonder if there will be an exchange of people--those from sane states that don't want the vaccine can come to the south and west where they are throwing tantrums over "freedom". I'll change places with them (will be moving north relatively soon once junior is in college).
 
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Feb 4, 2009
35,227
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Once again with the bullshit religious exemption.

As I have said before, I'd be fine with it if it ALSO came with an exemption that you can't receive modern medical care. You can sit with your yogi/priest/shaman/whatever and have them help you pray away the covid.

Moronic.

Not that any of it probably matters here in FL and other shitheaps like Texas. They'll fight this tooth and nail and find a way to string it out to the point where it won't happen. I wonder if there will be an exchange of people--those from sane states that don't want the vaccine can come to the south and west where they are throwing tantrums over "freedom". I'll change places with them (will be moving north relatively soon once junior is in college).

Honestly even this could be dealt with by simply saying all unvaccinated or anyone on you policy pay x times more per month.
We already know unvaccinated hospital visits cost $50-something thousand more than a vaccinated covid hospital stay.
We already know unvaccinated visit the hospital around 6 times the rate of the vaccinated.
We know unvaccinated go on ventilators at about 10 times the rate of vaccinated.
These extra carry cost of a non vaccinated person shouldn’t be too hard to figure out.
We already bill smokers more for health coverage.
 

Stokely

Platinum Member
Jun 5, 2017
2,215
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No argument from me. Already I have to take action to opt out of being a smoker--that's the fricking default during our yearly signup at work--to avoid paying more each year for insurance. Covid should be treated the same, and then some.

Ideally for my own sake and those I care about I want these morons to get vaccinated. But if they won't, then bring out the stick because the carrot ain't working.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
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No argument from me. Already I have to take action to opt out of being a smoker--that's the fricking default during our yearly signup at work--to avoid paying more each year for insurance. Covid should be treated the same, and then some.

Ideally for my own sake and those I care about I want these morons to get vaccinated. But if they won't, then bring out the stick because the carrot ain't working.
I think conservatives seriously underestimate the popularity of this move. Like around 70% of adults have gotten at least one shot. If you've been vaccinated yourself odds are really high that you're getting more and more pissed about the people who aren't fucking with your life.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
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No argument from me. Already I have to take action to opt out of being a smoker--that's the fricking default during our yearly signup at work--to avoid paying more each year for insurance. Covid should be treated the same, and then some.

Ideally for my own sake and those I care about I want these morons to get vaccinated. But if they won't, then bring out the stick because the carrot ain't working.
Congress can absolutely pass such laws. The problem is Bden bypassed Congress.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
749
254
96
I don't think so. This concerns public health and not nor should it be political. We have many who try to make this political but if and when this hits the Supreme Court I'd think the high could will side with the good of the country and safety of the citizens. Kinda like with Obamacare, the court knew in reality that Obamacare was not political, and to rule against Obamacare would have placed many Americans in danger of losing health insurance entirely. The court did the right thing with ACA, and they will do the right thing with Covid. Get those mother F-kers vaccinated.

There are so many days and instances where America should feel damn lucky and grateful that Joe Biden is the president and Donald Trump IS NOT. This Biden speech was just another example of a president doing the right thing even if some Americans are too stupid to see it.

All I hear from my Trumpie family is how mad they are because StarBucks is understaffed and the wait is too long, or the shelves at Walmart need to be better stocked, or that restaurants are closing way too early, and how prices are going out of control. Well..................... this could all be avoided and the situation much improved if only THOSE DAMN COMPLAINERS would get vaccinated so that things could return back to normal. Shelves once again stocked, restaurants staffed, drivers delivering, and prices lowering. Like, THERE IS a connection here.... people. You ignorant ass anti-vaxxers.

Basically, Joe Biden told them ignorant asses to go fuck themselves, those anti maskers and anti vaxxer's. Once again, a great speech from a great president.
I will make sure to reply back to you once court declares it unconstitutional. The diffeernce is that ACA was passed by congress and this was not.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,581
50,768
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I will make sure to reply back to you once court declares it unconstitutional. The diffeernce is that ACA was passed by congress and this was not.
The ACA involved a huge amount of new regulations for the health care sector. Do you know how Congress enacted these regulations? By empowering federal agencies to create them, they didn’t write them themselves.

You know what else works exactly like that in regards to workplace safety? OSHA.
 

nOOky

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2004
3,001
2,012
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I think conservatives seriously underestimate the popularity of this move. Like around 70% of adults have gotten at least one shot. If you've been vaccinated yourself odds are really high that you're getting more and more pissed about the people who aren't fucking with your life.

Seriously, why aren't more of these conservatives unhappy with their party? They are being told by upper leadership to not wear masks, the vaccine violates their freedom, the whole nine yards. The only people it's affecting are them, they are the ones dying off from it. Would they go on a roller coaster ride and reject the safety harness because they think it's the fucking nanny state? They post things like "we used to drink out of garden hoses as kids and not wear a helmet while riding a bike but they don't remember their parents protecting them by getting them vaccinated against polio?

I still have a hard time fathoming the depths of the stupidity...
 
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