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Biden falsifying rape and murder #'s to fuel passage of Jobs Act

Attic

Attic

Diamond Member
I've never thought highly of Biden, and for good reason.

A couple quotes from factcheck.org, a non partisan site that tries to hold politicians accountable. Site does a good job by focusing on the truthfulness of their statements.


We’ve continued to dig into the statistics for crime-ridden Flint because we caught Vice President Joe Biden misrepresenting them repeatedly as he argued for passage of the administration’s jobs legislation.
...
Speaking in Flint on Oct. 12, Biden said murder and rape statistics skyrocketed in that city from 2008 to 2010 (even though, as we reported, FBI data show rapes in Flint declined during that period). Biden then added: “God only knows what the numbers will be this year in Flint.”
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http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-flint-fiasco-continued/

initial article: http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-whopper-in-flint-mich/
 
I know I know, how do you know a politician is lying?,... his lips are moving.

Though Biden's effort here truly contemptible.
 
Attic said:
I know I know, how do you know a politician is lying?,... his lips are moving.

Though Biden's effort here truly contemptible.
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You think that misrepresenting crime statistics in order to pass a bill to help people get jobs is 'truly contemptible'? To me that implies that you think it's much worse than the average lies a politician says.

Now don't get me wrong, Biden is dumb for saying this, but in recent years I can think of dozens of lies politicians have said that are way more contemptible than this one.
 
eskimospy said:
You think that misrepresenting crime statistics in order to pass a bill to help people get jobs is 'truly contemptible'? To me that implies that you think it's much worse than the average lies a politician says.
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This is worse than an average lie. This is trying to scare the public into thinking murderers and rapist will be having happy hour if the jobs bill does not pass.

Same thing with the color coded terrorists alert... need public approval on something.. oops we have condition orange now.
 
rudder said:
This is worse than an average lie. This is trying to scare the public into thinking murderers and rapist will be having happy hour if the jobs bill does not pass.

Same thing with the color coded terrorists alert... need public approval on something.. oops we have condition orange now.
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What I think he was going by was the old data that poverty and crime are highly linked to one another. (this appears to not be the case in the way that was though however, with the current recession throwing a wrench into that)

Meh, scaring people with crime statistics is bad and all, but there have been far worse lies in pursuit of far worse goals I think.
 
eskimospy said:
You think that misrepresenting crime statistics in order to pass a bill to help people get jobs is 'truly contemptible'? To me that implies that you think it's much worse than the average lies a politician says.

Now don't get me wrong, Biden is dumb for saying this, but in recent years I can think of dozens of lies politicians have said that are way more contemptible than this one.
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You're right, lets not focus too much on this. We got bigger things to worry about, like those pesky tea baggers.
 
This is actually quite fascinating. Factcheck's non-partisan competition is Politifact, and they rated his statements as "mostly true":

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...says-murders-and-rapes-increased-flint-mich-/

It looks like there are three sources of information on crime in Flint: from the FBI, from the State Police, and from the City of Flint. Apparently the FBI, for example, uses a narrower definition of "rape" and hence reports fewer rapes than local authorities.

I haven't read both articles thoroughly as I'm readying for bed, but it looks like different agencies use different methods of calculating crime statistics and this yields varying results. What this means is that politicians can cherry pick their data when they want to make a point. That is most likely what Biden was doing here.
 
Attic said:
I've never thought highly of Biden, and for good reason.

A couple quotes from factcheck.org, a non partisan site that tries to hold politicians accountable. Site does a good job by focusing on the truthfulness of their statements.




http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-flint-fiasco-continued/

initial article: http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-whopper-in-flint-mich/
Click to expand...


Guess What Republicans lie too, If you want to see 800+ pages examples checkout the link in my sig 😉
 
It's not as bad as trying really really really hard to make ONE many MANY things;
- Socialist Overlord
- Capitalist Yes Man
- Kenyan
- Terrorist
- Overzealous Terrorist/American Citizen Killer
- Weak
- Overpowering

You idiots need to pick one and just go with it. Flip flopping back and forth makes you look pretty stupid.
 
I dont think Biden is lying, he is too stupid to lie, I believe he believes in everything he says. The problem is he listens to left wing Glenn Becks only. Pray to God everyday for Obama's good health...
 
rudder said:
This is worse than an average lie. This is trying to scare the public into thinking murderers and rapist will be having happy hour if the jobs bill does not pass.

Same thing with the color coded terrorists alert... need public approval on something.. oops we have condition orange now.
Click to expand...
Where does it rank compared to say, Iran has "massive stockpiles" of WMDs and UAVs poised to strike America's heartland?


By the way, if you read the whole Factcheck "continued" link, it says Biden was correct that murders increased, though he exaggerated the degree. ("Murder was up 66 percent, according to State Police figures ...)

Biden was wrong about rapes, but the city of Flint said it gave him bad data, giving him total sexual assault data for 2010 instead of just rapes. ("Biden claimed rapes in Flint were up from 91 in 2008 to 229 in 2010, an increase of 152 percent, during his visit to the city. How could he have been so wrong? City spokeswoman Dawn Jones told us the city had supplied Biden with 2010 figures for “rape” that actually reflected all crimes involving 'criminal sexual contact.'") Once again, Biden exaggerated the degree of increase, even considering the wrong data.

So Biden was certainly dishonest, though it was through exaggeration rather than outright lying. The measure of Biden's integrity here will be whether he continues to make these inaccurate claims now that they've been called out.
 
You have to look at the surrounding area too. There's Burton, Grand Blanc, Swartz Creek, etc. You'd have to run the numbers on that whole area before calling him a bold face liar. It is all generally known as "Flint".
 
Lithium381 said:
he was confronted afterwards, tried to deny it then got angry that he got called out on it
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Yep, and this was more entertaining to watch than him foaming at the mouth during the actual speech. Gotta hand it to our VP, he's one hell of an entertainer. 😀
 
Attic said:
I've never thought highly of Biden, and for good reason.

A couple quotes from factcheck.org, a non partisan site that tries to hold politicians accountable. Site does a good job by focusing on the truthfulness of their statements.




http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-flint-fiasco-continued/

initial article: http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-whopper-in-flint-mich/
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If you are going to make these kinds of statements facts should be in order. I'm not excusing it. Looks like Joe had a 90% chance if being inaccurate.

In other BREAKING NEWS a Biden spokesperson issued a release "The Vice-President's statement was not meant to be factual"
 
HomerJS said:
If you are going to make these kinds of statements facts should be in order. I'm not excusing it. Looks like Joe had a 90% chance if being inaccurate.

In other BREAKING NEWS a Biden spokesperson issued a release "The Vice-President's statement was not meant to be factual"
Click to expand...

if the VP of the united states is going to address the nation, his statements better damn well be factual
 
Attic said:
I've never thought highly of Biden, and for good reason.

A couple quotes from factcheck.org, a non partisan site that tries to hold politicians accountable. Site does a good job by focusing on the truthfulness of their statements.




http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-flint-fiasco-continued/

initial article: http://factcheck.org/2011/10/bidens-whopper-in-flint-mich/
Click to expand...

What numbers are they using, crimes reported, criminal prosecutions or convictions? The numbers all come up different, the FBI does not even count rapes the same way.
 
Lithium381 said:
if the VP of the united states is going to address the nation, his statements better damn well be factual
Click to expand...




...unless his name is Dick Cheney.


But this isn't some piddling little war with trillions of dollars spent and thousands of lives lost, this is the real deal guys - details about a Jobs Bill. Glad to see our priorities are on an even keel once again.
 
woolfe9999 said:
This is actually quite fascinating. Factcheck's non-partisan competition is Politifact, and they rated his statements as "mostly true":

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...says-murders-and-rapes-increased-flint-mich-/

It looks like there are three sources of information on crime in Flint: from the FBI, from the State Police, and from the City of Flint. Apparently the FBI, for example, uses a narrower definition of "rape" and hence reports fewer rapes than local authorities.

I haven't read both articles thoroughly as I'm readying for bed, but it looks like different agencies use different methods of calculating crime statistics and this yields varying results. What this means is that politicians can cherry pick their data when they want to make a point. That is most likely what Biden was doing here.
Click to expand...

Politifact lowered their rating of Biden's statements.

Last week, we asked for feedback on our Mostly True rating of a comment by Vice President Joe Biden on crime statistics in Flint, Mich. -- a rating that clashed with how other fact-checking organizations rated similar claims by Biden on this topic.

We received several dozen responses from readers, and many of them offered thoughtful critiques of our work. Since then, we found more definitive evidence that Biden's numbers on rape are wrong. We have re-reported this item and given it a new rating of Half True.
Click to expand...

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...s-speak-out-about-our-ruling-biden-flint-cri/
 
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