Biden being #metoo'ed (kinda...)

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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
Neither side is immune to mobs. Franken wasn’t held to a moral or ethical standard any more than the Salem witches were. Dogma is a somewhat new facet to the Democrats.
What the fuck is this idiotic hyperbole?
First, like you give a flying fuck about Franken.
Second, you blew entirely past everything I posted to make this ridiculous comparison. Franken did not lose life, liberty, or property. He wasn't burned at the stake. What happened is that the party and the people who gave him his job no longer wanted him in that position.
There is no 'right' to serve as a US Senator.
 
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Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
Even employers have to follow a process or face the liability of improperly tipping the scales.
Pathetically weak dodge. You said only courts of law should make this call and now you're backpedaling.
I think you need to come to grips with the fact that people can and should face accountability for their actions outside of courts of law.
So if that, for example, you work for a company and publicly insult or defame a sizable number of your co-workers and/or customers, that the people of that company may choose to exercise their right to voluntarily disassociate themselves for you. Or if you hold public office, and engage in behavior that the people who elected you into that office find to reprehensible, immoral, or unethical, that the people who elected you to that office have the right to remove you from it.
You're hiding behind buzzwords, like 'mob' and 'dogma,' and hyperbole, like Salem witch trials, to try to justify why you believe that some freedoms should exist without social consequence and responsibility. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. Nor should it.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
What the fuck is this idiotic hyperbole?
First, like you give a flying fuck about Franken.
Second, you blew entirely past everything I posted to make this ridiculous comparison. Franken did not lose life, liberty, or property. He wasn't burned at the stake. What happened is that the party and the people who gave him his job no longer wanted him in that position.
There is no 'right' to serve as a US Senator.
I actually greatly respect Franken, as he was an effective voice against Trump, and did so without throwing anyone else under the bus. The people had very little to do with his stepping down. If you closely look at his communications, he started by doing the respectful thing in supporting the investigation, but in his announcement to step down, you can hear his exasperation with how the social media mob turned on him, led by his own peers who benefitted from taking him down.

Pathetically weak dodge. You said only courts of law should make this call and now you're backpedaling.
I think you need to come to grips with the fact that people can and should face accountability for their actions outside of courts of law.
So if that, for example, you work for a company and publicly insult or defame a sizable number of your co-workers and/or customers, that the people of that company may choose to exercise their right to voluntarily disassociate themselves for you. Or if you hold public office, and engage in behavior that the people who elected you into that office find to reprehensible, immoral, or unethical, that the people who elected you to that office have the right to remove you from it.
You're hiding behind buzzwords, like 'mob' and 'dogma,' and hyperbole, like Salem witch trials, to try to justify why you believe that some freedoms should exist without social consequence and responsibility. Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. Nor should it.
I use hyperbole because on some topics, Democrats have absolutely become inflexibly dogmatic. Yes, a company can remove someone for violating their code of conduct. Have you ever had to do that? I have, and there was an extensive process to justify the decision that still provided due process. Franken wasn’t held accountable by the electorate. He was sacrificed by his own peers. Lord of Light, lead us from the darkness!
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,284
5,056
136
What the fuck is this idiotic hyperbole?
What happened is that the party and the people who gave him his job no longer wanted him in that position.
There is no 'right' to serve as a US Senator.
Exactly when did the people who elected him decide he had to go, and when was that vote held?
 

mect

Platinum Member
Jan 5, 2004
2,424
1,636
136
Even employers have to follow a process or face the liability of improperly tipping the scales.
I agree it is certainly a good policy. And I would be fine if a standard process was established for government employees accused of sexual misconduct. But note that this is very different from requiring a legal conviction. Additionally, considering the public nature of these positions, to some extent I don't think you can ever escape public perception.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
I actually greatly respect Franken, as he was an effective voice against Trump, and did so without throwing anyone else under the bus. The people had very little to do with his stepping down. If you closely look at his communications, he started by doing the respectful thing in supporting the investigation, but in his announcement to step down, you can hear his exasperation with how the social media mob turned on him, led by his own peers who benefitted from taking him down.

I use hyperbole because on some topics, Democrats have absolutely become inflexibly dogmatic. Yes, a company can remove someone for violating their code of conduct. Have you ever had to do that? I have, and there was an extensive process to justify the decision that still provided due process. Franken wasn’t held accountable by the electorate. He was sacrificed by his own peers. Lord of Light, lead us from the darkness!

I finding interesting how you always claim to be against Trump, but yet you're always carrying his water. Like here, slyly helping to lay the groundwork for a "Franken got screwed" propaganda campaign in the event Trump ends up facing Klobuchar next fall.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
I agree it is certainly a good policy. And I would be fine if a standard process was established for government employees accused of sexual misconduct. But note that this is very different from requiring a legal conviction. Additionally, considering the public nature of these positions, to some extent I don't think you can ever escape public perception.

Why would we ever want our publicly elected officials to be able escape public perception? Seems to me that Starbuck is arguing in favor of a monarchy.
I don't feel that Franken was treated fairly, as said as much then, but the concern trolling by the Republicans in this thread is pathetic.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I finding interesting how you always claim to be against Trump, but yet you're always carrying his water. Like here, slyly helping to lay the groundwork for a "Franken got screwed" propaganda campaign in the event Trump ends up facing Klobuchar next fall.
I find it interesting that some Democrats, instead of addressing legitimate criticisms, double down on whatabouTrump.

Here is an article worth your time. I’ve really come to enjoy The Atlantic. Hardly raving Trumpers:

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/democrats-shouldnt-have-pressured-al-franken-resign/585739
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I agree it is certainly a good policy. And I would be fine if a standard process was established for government employees accused of sexual misconduct. But note that this is very different from requiring a legal conviction. Additionally, considering the public nature of these positions, to some extent I don't think you can ever escape public perception.
Let’s be brutally honest. Democrats only now care about said misconduct because Trump won the election. Do you honestly think there would even be a #metoo movement if Hillary had won? This has nothing to do with process or justice. It has everything to do with political opportunism.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
It did have to do with Trump winning but I don’t really agree that it simply boils down to political opportunism. Trump's indiscretions while certainly first highlighted for his opponents political gain shed light on morally indecent behavior women endure and ultimately shining light on that happened at the right time culturally for the nation. When the Harvey Weinstein thing broke it went critical and more and more women came forward.

I enjoy that it happened and I hope it offered women across the country a sense of victory for things I’m sure every single one of them have endured to one degree or another, but it also shed light on another issue which is mob justice in the digital age and the dangers of that. People on here throughout the movement (which seems to have ended) justified it by calling the perpetrators "assholes". That seem to be the pc term used by those who weren’t sure of the morals of cheering the lynch mob and justifying it to themselves. Yeah they probably were "assholes" but we got to the point where a single accusation was all it took to completely destroy a life and as a country we seemed to not care and cheer it on regardless.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Let’s be brutally honest. Democrats only now care about said misconduct because Trump won the election. Do you honestly think there would even be a #metoo movement if Hillary had won? This has nothing to do with process or justice. It has everything to do with political opportunism.

Those nasssssty Democrats.

EDIT: btw, "brutally honest"? ROFLMAO
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
I find it interesting that some Democrats, instead of addressing legitimate criticisms, double down on whatabouTrump.

Here is an article worth your time. I’ve really come to enjoy The Atlantic. Hardly raving Trumpers:

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/03/democrats-shouldnt-have-pressured-al-franken-resign/585739
I already said that I think Franken was mistreated. You're missing my point, which is to address your idiotic and inconsistent propaganda. For example, the Atlantic article does not say that a court of law is the only venue where a public official should be held accountable, like you did. It does not use ironic buzzwords, like 'dogmatic,' as you have. It does not pretend to care about a politician that they have never and would never vote for, as you are doing.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
It did have to do with Trump winning but I don’t really agree that it simply boils down to political opportunism. Trump's indiscretions while certainly first highlighted for his opponents political gain shed light on morally indecent behavior women endure and ultimately shining light on that happened at the right time culturally for the nation. When the Harvey Weinstein thing broke it went critical and more and more women came forward.

I enjoy that it happened and I hope it offered women across the country a sense of victory for things I’m sure every single one of them have endured to one degree or another, but it also shed light on another issue which is mob justice in the digital age and the dangers of that. People on here throughout the movement (which seems to have ended) justified it by calling the perpetrators "assholes". That seem to be the pc term used by those who weren’t sure of the morals of cheering the lynch mob and justifying it to themselves. Yeah they probably were "assholes" but we got to the point where a single accusation was all it took to completely destroy a life and as a country we seemed to not care and cheer it on regardless.

Whose life are you talking about?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
Those nasssssty Democrats.

EDIT: btw, "brutally honest"? ROFLMAO
I always find it interesting that, in all their concern about men being falsely accused, they have never, not even for one moment, expresed concerned that a women could be legitimately raped, assaulted, or abused, and then not believed. Even though we've seen case after case where that has happened, from the casting couch to the frat house to right behind the pulpit, not one word.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I always find it interesting that, in all their concern about men being falsely accused, they have never, not even for one moment, expresed concerned that a women could be legitimately raped, assaulted, or abused, and then not believed. Even though we've seen case after case where that has happened, from the casting couch to the frat house to right behind the pulpit, not one word.


Not one word from who?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I already said that I think Franken was mistreated. You're missing my point, which is to address your idiotic and inconsistent propaganda. For example, the Atlantic article does not say that a court of law is the only venue where a public official should be held accountable, like you did. It does not use ironic buzzwords, like 'dogmatic,' as you have. It does not pretend to care about a politician that they have never and would never vote for, as you are doing.

Well, yeh, but he has deep concerns for the soul of the Democratic Party.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,415
14,303
136
Let’s be brutally honest. Democrats only now care about said misconduct because Trump won the election. Do you honestly think there would even be a #metoo movement if Hillary had won? This has nothing to do with process or justice. It has everything to do with political opportunism.

Or being especially honest, it might just be that a very large number of women don't appreciate it that an entire population of men has been told that the highest pinnacle of privilege is being able to grab em by the pussy. Because yaknow, when you're rich and famous, they just let you do that. But yeah, that's just political opportunism. I mean, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the openly immoral leadership in the White House.

e1c159b068e0308dfa0f9833395a5a9b.jpg
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Search my posts on #metoo if you want, you’ll be shown wrong and being dishonest once again.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I already said that I think Franken was mistreated. You're missing my point, which is to address your idiotic and inconsistent propaganda. For example, the Atlantic article does not say that a court of law is the only venue where a public official should be held accountable, like you did. It does not use ironic buzzwords, like 'dogmatic,' as you have. It does not pretend to care about a politician that they have never and would never vote for, as you are doing.
I didn’t miss your point, I just don’t think you’re making one. If you agree with the article, there is nothing to discuss. The author used several dramatic phrases: “feverish”, “convulsions”, “mob”,
“restraint”.
 
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Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Or being especially honest, it might just be that a very large number of women don't appreciate it that an entire population of men has been told that the highest pinnacle of privilege is being able to grab em by the pussy. Because yaknow, when you're rich and famous, they just let you do that. But yeah, that's just political opportunism. I mean, it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the openly immoral leadership in the White House.

e1c159b068e0308dfa0f9833395a5a9b.jpg
Were you this concerned when Bill Clinton engaged in sexual misconduct? Your TDS is flaring up again.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
I always find it interesting that, in all their concern about men being falsely accused, they have never, not even for one moment, expresed concerned that a women could be legitimately raped, assaulted, or abused, and then not believed. Even though we've seen case after case where that has happened, from the casting couch to the frat house to right behind the pulpit, not one word.

I know two people that happened to myself. In one case it eventually ended with someone being killed. Thankfully it was the asshole and it was accepted as self defense.

In Franken's case they're simply writing off what 8 credible women stated as their experiences. I think that his party mishandled his situation but I also believe those women and feel that he's not fit to serve in office. In the end, however reluctantly he did so, he did the right thing by resigning.