Biden admin winding down "remain in Mexico" policy, will start measured admittance of those registered.

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
You do realize there are numerous reasons by which someone can cross the border without the requisite paperwork that are totally legal, right?

By your standard you want to call them illegal immigrants even though you have no idea if they have illegally immigrated or not. This is factually wrong as you’re obviously incorrectly labeling a whole bunch of people. Undocumented correctly describes them because it acknowledges we don’t know if they are here illegally or not.

Isn’t it better to use the more accurate term?

Whatever you say.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cytg111

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Maybe it would be easier for me to understand if you explained to me why you thought it was better to call someone’s actions illegal without actually knowing if they were illegal or not.

We would have record if they were claiming asylum or crossing with a valid Visa, no? Everyone else crosses illegally.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,860
136
We would have record if they were claiming asylum or crossing with a valid Visa, no? Everyone else crosses illegally.
No, that is not an even remotely accurate description of the law.

So again, why would you want to label someone as a criminal if you don’t know if they are a criminal? Wouldn’t you want to be more accurate?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
No, that is not an even remotely accurate description of the law.

So again, why would you want to label someone as a criminal if you don’t know if they are a criminal? Wouldn’t you want to be more accurate?


If they dont come through a checkpoint, or they dont have proper paperwork, they are a criminal.
 

Lanyap

Elite Member
Dec 23, 2000
8,185
2,232
136
Can we get past the naming/labelling of the folks coming across the southern border that may or may not be following the proper immigration standards/laws to get in. Now that Biden is in office the folks are coming across in mass like they did with Obama and trump (at least part of the time). Biden is having to open detention centers used by Obama and trump to accommodate the influx. If we are going to let them in to help them from a humanitarian perspective then this is what we need to do, IMO.

> Let them in using a controlled process. Keep them in sanitary and humane facilities. Keep families together. Document them by giving them special IDs. If children come across with adults who are not their relatives then we need to figure out a process to deal with them properly and humanely. Give them all special IDs and a way to keep track of them. For children, get family contact information from their origin country and family already in the US.

> Test for COVID. If positive, treat them as needed and isolate them. If negative, vaccinate then with J&J and isolate them for the proper time frame. Vaccinating them will piss off a lot of folks in the US but we just won't tell them. ;)

> What did I miss?


Terminology[edit]
There are campaigns that discourage the use of the term illegal immigrant, generally based on the argument that the act of immigrating illegally does not make the people themselves illegal, but rather they are "people who have immigrated illegally."

Depending on jurisdiction, culture, or context, terms used instead of illegal immigrant can include irregular migrant, undocumented immigrant, undocumented person, unauthorized immigrant, and illegal alien.[4][5][6][7][8][9]

In some contexts the term illegal immigrants is shortened, often pejoratively,[10] to "illegals".[11][12][13][14]

Campaigns against the term "illegal"[edit]
In the United States, a "Drop the I-Word" campaign was launched in 2010 advocating for the use of such terms as undocumented immigrants or unauthorized immigrants when referring to the foreign nationals who reside in a country illegally.[4]

In Europe, the Platform for International Cooperation on Undocumented Migrants (PICUM) launched its international "Words Matter"[15] campaign in 2014 to promote the use of the terms undocumented or irregular migrants instead of illegal.[16][17][18][19]

Usage[edit]
Irregular migration is a related term that is sometimes used, e.g., by the International Organization for Migration; however, because of the word migration, this term describes a somewhat wider concept which also includes illegal emigration.[6]

News media[edit]
News associations that have discontinued or discourage (excluding direct quotations) the use of the adjective illegal to qualify nouns that describe people include the Associated Press (US),[20] Press Association (UK), European Journalism Observatory,[21] European Journalism Centre,[22] Association of European Journalists, Australian Press Council,[23] and Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance (AU).[24] Related terms that describe actions are not similarly discouraged by these campaigns. For example, the Associated Press continues to use the term illegal immigration, whereby illegal describes the action rather than the person.[20]

On the other hand, the term undocumented has been cited by the New York Times as a "term preferred by many immigrants and their advocates, but it has a flavor of euphemism and should be used with caution outside quotation."[5] Newsweek questions the use of the phrase undocumented immigrants as a method of euphemistic framing, namely, "a psychological technique that can influence the perception of social phenomena."[25] Newsweek also suggests that persons who enter a country unlawfully cannot be entirely "undocumented," as they "just lack the certain specific documents for legal residency and employment," while "[m]any have driver's licences, debit cards, library cards, and school identifications which are useful documents in specific contexts but not nearly so much for immigration."[25] For example, in the US, youths brought into the country illegally are granted access to public K-12 education and benefits regardless of citizenship status;[26] therefore the youths are not entirely undocumented, since they are in fact documented for educational purposes.

U.S. Government[edit]
Title 8 of the US Code is the portion of United States law that contains legislation on citizenship, nationality, and immigration. Defining the legal term alien as "any person not a citizen or national of the United States,"[7] the terminology used in Title 8 includes illegal alien (33 times), unauthorized alien (21 times), undocumented alien (18 times), illegal immigrant (6 times), undocumented person (2 times), and others.[8] An analysis by PolitiFact, however, concluded that the term illegal alien "occurs scarcely, often undefined or part of an introductory title or limited to apply to certain individuals convicted of felonies."[9]

In the United States, while overstaying a visa is a civil violation handled by immigration court, entering (including re-entering) the US without approval from an immigration officer is a crime; specifically a misdemeanor on the first offense. Illegal reentry after deportation is a felony offense. This is the distinction between the larger group referred to as unauthorized immigrants and the smaller subgroup referred to as criminal immigrants.[27][failed verification]
 
Last edited:

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,255
2,272
136
Can we get past the naming/labelling of the folks coming across the southern border that may or may not be following the proper immigration standards/laws to get in. Now that Biden is in office the folks are coming across in mass like they did with Obama, trump and now Biden. Biden is having to open detention centers used by Obama and trump to accommodate the influx. If we are going to let them in to help them from a humanitarian perspective then this is what we need to do, IMO.

> Let them in using a controlled process. Keep them in sanitary and humanitarian facilities. Keep families together. Document them. If children come across with adults who are not their relatives then we need to figure out a process to deal with them properly and humanely. Give them all special IDs and a way to keep track of them. For children, get family contact information from their origin country and family already in the US.

> Test for COVID. If positive, treat them as needed and isolate them. If negative, vaccinate then with J&J and isolate them for the proper time frame. Vaccinating them will piss off a lot of folks in the US but we just won't tell them. ;)

> What did I miss?

We have a bit of a roadblock. A portion of our society has been brainwashed into believing the migrant workers we exploited for decades were instead exploiting us. At this point they have zero compaction for these folks and would happily gun them down at the boarder.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leeea

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
You are just making up laws now. Surely you can’t expect people to have to follow your made up laws?

No Im not. There are legal and illegal ways to enter the USA.. If you don't enter legally, and you enter the USA, your an illegal immigrant. Period.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: cytg111

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Can we get past the naming/labelling of the folks coming across the southern border that may or may not be following the proper immigration standards/laws to get in. Now that Biden is in office the folks are coming across in mass like they did with Obama, trump and now Biden. Biden is having to open detention centers used by Obama and trump to accommodate the influx. If we are going to let them in to help them from a humanitarian perspective then this is what we need to do, IMO.

> Let them in using a controlled process. Keep them in sanitary and humanitarian facilities. Keep families together. Document them. If children come across with adults who are not their relatives then we need to figure out a process to deal with them properly and humanely. Give them all special IDs and a way to keep track of them. For children, get family contact information from their origin country and family already in the US.

> Test for COVID. If positive, treat them as needed and isolate them. If negative, vaccinate then with J&J and isolate them for the proper time frame. Vaccinating them will piss off a lot of folks in the US but we just won't tell them. ;)

> What did I miss?



You didnt miss anything other than he opened the children's detainment centers created by Trump.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Current government needs to adopt a "remain in Mara-Lago" policy. How can we police our borders if we can't keep the riff raff who are already here contained?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,860
136
No Im not. There are legal and illegal ways to enter the USA.. If you don't enter legally, and you enter the USA, your an illegal immigrant. Period.
Right, and just because you don’t come through a checkpoint or have proper paperwork doesn’t mean your entry is illegal. This is a simple, inescapable fact.

So again, surely you want to use the most accurate term, right?
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Right, and just because you don’t come through a checkpoint or have proper paperwork doesn’t mean your entry is illegal. This is a simple, inescapable fact.

So again, surely you want to use the most accurate term, right?

Sure about that?


“If an individual enters the United States at a location other than an official port of entry and without inspection by a Customs and Border Protection officer, they have illegally entered the United States and will be processed accordingly,” Customs and Border Protection said.


“It is the responsibility of an individual traveling in the vicinity of an international border to maintain awareness of their surroundings and their location at all times to ensure they do not illegally cross the border.”

 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
No Im not. There are legal and illegal ways to enter the USA.. If you don't enter legally, and you enter the USA, your an illegal immigrant. Period.

This is true. First rule of tautology club and all that.
Listen the fuck up folks, this is what the man is saying and you all too dense to get it, so, Ill go all caps for a second emphasize the point:

IF YOU ARE NOT DOING IT RIGHT YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,721
146
Have you ever had the feeling you have entered into a conversation with someone who lack a basic understanding of everything but is completely oblivious to that fact?

He seems to enjoy that. And here we are yet another thread ruined by blackangst's racist shit and idiots that argue with him for no reason.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,634
50,860
136
Yes, I’m sure about that. Remember, that was the Trump era CBP and the Trump government lied about everything.


The rule’s direction that ‘an alien shall be ineligible for asylum’ if the alien entered the United States outside a designated port of entry is not ‘compatible’ with the congressional mandate that all aliens present in the United States may ‘apply’ for asylum, regardless of whether they entered the United States at a designated port of entry
As you can see, federal law is extremely clear and individuals who crossed at places other than official ports of entry can be later deemed legal immigrants.

This is why calling them all illegal immigrants is factually false. Surely conservatives would like to stop using factually false terms, right?
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,280
5,721
146
We have a bit of a roadblock. A portion of our society has been brainwashed into believing the migrant workers we exploited for decades were instead exploiting us. At this point they have zero compaction for these folks and would happily gun them down at the boarder.

Shit I'm surprised I didn't see Republicans in Texas start advocating for throwing them in ovens to deal with their electricity problem.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,338
1,215
126
No Im not. There are legal and illegal ways to enter the USA.. If you don't enter legally, and you enter the USA, your an illegal immigrant. Period.
Illegal alien. Illegal immigrant is a stupid word game used by Liberals since we can't legally classify them as indentured servants. Don't forget the number of illegal aliens in the country seem to remain at a constant 11M over the last several decades.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: ch33zw1z

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Maybe it would be easier for me to understand if you explained to me why you thought it was better to call someone’s actions illegal without actually knowing if they were illegal or not.

I dunno. Ask Biden for his explanation. Why does he call them illegals?

Biden on Employers and Illegal Immigrants - YouTube
“We’ve got to get tougher with employers. In fact the person we should send to jail is not the illegals, we send to jail the employers,” Biden said. “If you knowingly hire an illegal alien, then you should be held accountable. Because let me tell you, the next person I hear tell me that my labor guys aren’t willing to work hard, that’s why you have illegals putting up sheetrock, then I want to tell you, you don’t know my guys.”

If its OK with Biden, its OK with me.

And while youre writing Biden to use the proper term, you might remind him illegal activities arent illegal if you dont know about it:

Joe Biden blasts decriminalizing illegal immigration: 'It's a crime' - Washington Times

“What do you say to all those people around the border who want the same thing?” he said. “If you cross the border illegally you should be able to be sent back. It’s a crime.”
 
Last edited:

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Why would either of us care what Joe Biden says? Justify your own argument, lol.

Tell me why you think calling something illegal when you don’t know it’s illegal is the best idea. This should be easy.

See my edit.

Also, Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.