Bicyclists and the "Right of Way"

[AMCRambler]

So this weekend my fiance and I were out looking for houses and on the way home we ended up stuck behind two knuckleheads on bicycles. I'm usually pretty patient and I can wait for traffic to open up in the oncoming lane enough for me to pass the bikers safely. However these two geniuses were riding on a very busy suburban road with no passing strips, and doing it in the lane and not on the paved shoulder. I understand the bikers have just as much right to be on the road as a car, but isn't it common courtesy to move over the white line to allow cars to pass? That's what I always did when I was biking.
Their choice of road to ride on was pretty bad too. 45mph speed limit with people usually traveling in excess of that. Anyway it just tweaked me off that them being on that road was really dangerous for all involved. Of course the idiots behind me are riding my ass waiting for me to pass them too. And having to pass them because they are well into the lane I've actualy got to cross the double yellow line breaking the law. My other option is to sit there behind them until they moved over enough for me to pass. Of course then the geniuses behind me would start passing me over the yellow to get around all of us making it even more dangerous. It's one of those damned if you do and damned if you don't situations that would be a hell of a lot easier if the biker would just stick to back roads. There are plenty around that make for great riding.

 

[Gibson486]

It's like that everywhere. Bikers think they oon the road as much cars cars do. They have this attitude "well, If they hit me, I will sue them". Hate to break it to them, but if I hit you at 45 mph, you will probably need more than money to make your life happy. What really irks me is when the bike on the left lane. They really want to test their survival skills.

 

[Zenmervolt]

In Washington state, if you are holding up 5 or more people you are required by law to pull over to the side and stop to allow other traffic to pass. It may be similar in NY.

ZV

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
In Washington state, if you are holding up 5 or more people you are required by law to pull over to the side and stop to allow other traffic to pass. It may be similar in NY.

ZV

Interesting. That seems like a fair law. It sucks that they actually had to make a law though. To me it just seems like common sense. Now in the city and more urban areas, I can see bikers being looked at the same as any other vehicle on the road. Where all vehicles average speeds don't exceed 25 mph, a bike has no issue keeping up. Around here there are wide stretches between traffic control devices and traffic moves a lot faster. Right of way or not, it's just not safe to be riding a bike on these roads. In the towns the speed limit drops considerably to 30-35. That's where I'd be riding if given the choice.

We've also got these great rail trails that the county has been putting in. They purchase old rail road beds an pave them for joggers, roller bladers and bikes. For some reason the spandex wearing Lance Armstrongs feel they need to be riding on the main roads though.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

I am an avid cyclist and defend the rights of cyclists to share the road, but what you're describing is admittedly stupid behavior. Most states require cyclists to ride as far to the right as they safely can, which just makes sense from a safely standpoint. I am not willing to ride on or inches from the curb, because there is a profusion of road trash, so between that and the variable road surface you are very likely to get a flat, but I always ride as far right as I safely can. It seems obvious to ride on a paved shoulder where there is one.

On the other hand, there are plenty of drivers who bully and ignore cyclists, which is very dangerous in its own right (I am in no way implying the OP is such a person).

 

[cheesehead]

I flatly refuse to ride anywhere but the middle of the road. I've come a bit closer than I'd like to being killed when people tried to pass me without leaving my lane. That said, why on earth would you ride in such a stupid road? Also, while riding on the far edge of the road is a recipie for a flat tire, destroyed rim, and a faceplant, stopping on the far edge of the road after you've got two people behind you is common courtesy - the only time I intentionally block traffic is when some boob decides to spend half a mile in the bus/bike/right turn lane and can no longer either get out of it to pass me.

Did these guys have huge amounts of stuff bolted to their bicycles? If so, they were "loaded tourers", cyclist-camper types who generally get their directions on Mapquest and, having biked way too far in the last few days already, probably weren't in a particularly healthy state of mind. Otherwise, they're just morons.

Originally posted by: Gibson486
Bikers think they oon the road as much cars cars do.

Around here, it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk, and in most areas, bikes effectively *do* have equal rights.

If you really want to hate someone, hate people who insist on riding very fast on sidewalks while drunk, expecting people to move out of their way. If you're blind or hard of hearing, this might be an impossibility....and stopping distance on bicycles is actually pretty poor.

 

[LTC8K6]

In my state, a bicycle has the same full rights as a car except they can't ride on controlled access highways like interstates. So those two bicyclists wouldn't be doing anything wrong. They are just slow moving cars as far as the law here is concerned.

 

[AMCRambler]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I flatly refuse to ride anywhere but the middle of the road. I've come a bit closer than I'd like to being killed when people tried to pass me without leaving my lane. That said, why on earth would you ride in such a stupid road? Also, while riding on the far edge of the road is a recipie for a flat tire, destroyed rim, and a faceplant, stopping on the far edge of the road after you've got two people behind you is common courtesy - the only time I intentionally block traffic is when some boob decides to spend half a mile in the bus/bike/right turn lane and can no longer either get out of it to pass me.

Did these guys have huge amounts of stuff bolted to their bicycles? If so, they were "loaded tourers", cyclist-camper types who generally get their directions on Mapquest and, having biked way too far in the last few days already, probably weren't in a particularly healthy state of mind. Otherwise, they're just morons.

Originally posted by: Gibson486
Bikers think they oon the road as much cars cars do.

Around here, it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk, and in most areas, bikes effectively *do* have equal rights.

If you really want to hate someone, hate people who insist on riding very fast on sidewalks while drunk, expecting people to move out of their way. If you're blind or hard of hearing, this might be an impossibility....and stopping distance on bicycles is actually pretty poor.

Nah these guys weren't riding with saddle bags or anything. I could understand if they were going cross country as this would have been one of the few North/South roads they could ride to get where they needed to go. But no, they just had on their skin tight suits. They were riding road bikes, so I can see your point about road trash and debris. They really shouldn't have been riding this road though. With the amount of traffic they would have spent more time pulled over and stopped to be courteous then they would driving. It probably wouldn't be that bad in the morning, but at 5 oclock in the evening, not a good place to be. I hope nobody hit them and they made it home safe.

 

[StageLeft]

And having to pass them because they are well into the lane I've actualy got to cross the double yellow line breaking the law.

Oh heavens no wouldn't want to do that. No cop is going to care if you cross the dbl yellow to avoid hitting a cyclist.

They should move over to let you pass as much as possible. However, if there is little or no shoulder it would be IMPOSSIBLE for a cyclist to be, on a standard road, far enough over for you to safely pass them without crossing the yellow line.

It's like that everywhere. Bikers think they oon the road as much cars cars do. They have this attitude "well, If they hit me, I will sue them". Hate to break it to them, but if I hit you at 45 mph, you will probably need more than money to make your life happy. What really irks me is when the bike on the left lane. They really want to test their survival skills.

Get a clue. I am a cyclist. Nobody who is a cyclist has this "I will sue them" attitude. Don't you realize that among those of us with brain cells every time we ride we are thinking in the back of our mind will this be the day we are hit? We do not want to be hit. Most of us will stay to the side of the road enough to make it easy on cars. Common sense is all that's being asked for. And cyclists riding on the left drives me more nuts, too. They are stupid as hell and begging to be hit by a car.

They purchase old rail road beds an pave them for joggers, roller bladers and bikes. For some reason the spandex wearing Lance Armstrongs feel they need to be riding on the main roads though.

Try riding at 22 mph on a thin paved road with joggers and rollerbladers who act constantly shocked when somebody passes them, including on the grass because they don't have their hearing aids in, and then you'll realize why they pick roads.

A smart cyclist will avoid certain roads. I don't ride through the city where next to the road is a curb and heavy traffic. To me it's simply asking for an accident, and as mentioned above car vs bike it's safe to guess who's going to lose.

I love being on the side of an empty road and being screamed at by people in cars, though. Fvcking love it every time it happens. Hopefully one day I can distract them enough that they run into a tree and die on impact.

 

[theeedude]

Shoulder is not necessarily safe to ride on, paved or not. That's not what shoulder is for. It's for pulling over in case of malfunction, not a bike lane. Shoulders aren't generally maintained to same standard as the traffic lane. You may have a smooth stretch, but then you have to merge into the traffic lane if there is a rut or a break ahead, which could be a lot more dangerous then just predictably riding in the lane.
If it bothers you so much, write to your elected officials and request that official bike lanes be created out of those paved shoulders.

 

[zoiks]

One of the times a train horn would come in handy.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: zoiks
One of the times a train horn would come in handy.

Cyclists love getting honked at. If you're lucky you can make them jump a bit. Luckier still maybe they'll run off the road and crack their neck. This is why I have thought of riding with a vid camera so I can film the assholes. Although to be fair, where I ride and the people in my area I rarely run into any kind of an issue. If I did, I'd ride less. As it is I do a good number of rides on a trainer, in small part to decrease the miles I put on roads with cars.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Generally around here bicyclists and cars mix pretty well. But I still don't understand why some refuse to use the bike lanes that are about 6-8 feet wide. But I also don't really understand why joggers do the same when there's a 4-5' wide sidewalk.

...and some of my coworkers found out the hard way that although rare, it IS possible to be issued a ticket for both speeding and running a stop sign on a bicycle. (two different people too)

 

[Turin39789]

They are just concerned with their safety. Safer for them to ride in the road than on the edge, you actually follow their pace until you can pass safely instead of *maybe* scooting over inches at 50mph so you don't hit them.

 

[cheesehead]

Anyone who says "use the bike path" has never tried to do it on a fast bicycle. I'm inpathetically awful shape and even I can manage a good 15MPH...which is about three times as fast as everyone else on it. I've had two bicycle collisions in my life, both on a bike path with other bicycles. With cars, roads, and proper rules, I seem to do much better.

Originally posted by: AMCRambler

Nah these guys weren't riding with saddle bags or anything. I could understand if they were going cross country as this would have been one of the few North/South roads they could ride to get where they needed to go. But no, they just had on their skin tight suits.

Ah. Just garden-variety dillweeds. They probably weren't even serious cyclists, who tend to stick to the same low-traffic route every day, but useless wannabes. If it makes you feel at all better, the mediocre quality of American highway tarmac will do some extremely interesting and expensive things to bicycle wheels - especially the all-carbon variety so popular with posers costing over $1,000 each.

It's worth noting that tourers may be a bit incoherent after biking 140+ miles that day and over 500 so far that week, don't know the local roads, and get their directions from MapQuest by asking how to go from point A to point B and checking the "no freeways" tab. They are, however, generally very nice people, as the sort of person who spends $3k on a bike to show off isn't going to ride the pitted, bruised, lump that is a proper touring bike.

(Fun fact: A simple gauge for truly hardcore long-distance cyclists is their hubs. If it says "Phil Wood" or "Rolhoff", you're looking at someone who could easily have more miles on their bicycle than you do on your car.)

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Don Vito Corleone
I am an avid cyclist and defend the rights of cyclists to share the road, but what you're describing is admittedly stupid behavior. Most states require cyclists to ride as far to the right as they safely can, which just makes sense from a safely standpoint. I am not willing to ride on or inches from the curb, because there is a profusion of road trash, so between that and the variable road surface you are very likely to get a flat, but I always ride as far right as I safely can. It seems obvious to ride on a paved shoulder where there is one.

On the other hand, there are plenty of drivers who bully and ignore cyclists, which is very dangerous in its own right (I am in no way implying the OP is such a person).

This.

Most of the roads around here have dedicated bike lanes though so I guess I'm lucky in that respect. Still, on some of the roads around here the bike lanes have been eliminated in some areas to widen the road for more cars and there is no shoulder so I take the lane on those stretches simply because when I stay as far right as possible I get buzzed by idiots in cars and trucks.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: SkoorbTry riding at 22 mph on a thin paved road with joggers and rollerbladers who act constantly shocked when somebody passes them, including on the grass because they don't have their hearing aids in, and then you'll realize why they pick roads.

A smart cyclist will avoid certain roads. I don't ride through the city where next to the road is a curb and heavy traffic. To me it's simply asking for an accident, and as mentioned above car vs bike it's safe to guess who's going to lose.

I love being on the side of an empty road and being screamed at by people in cars, though. Fvcking love it every time it happens. Hopefully one day I can distract them enough that they run into a tree and die on impact.

Add children and dogs into that mix and I think your chances of having an accident are far greater on a bicycle on a paved multi-use trails than on the roads with motor vehicles.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I flatly refuse to ride anywhere but the middle of the road. I've come a bit closer than I'd like to being killed when people tried to pass me without leaving my lane. That said, why on earth would you ride in such a stupid road? Also, while riding on the far edge of the road is a recipie for a flat tire, destroyed rim, and a faceplant, stopping on the far edge of the road after you've got two people behind you is common courtesy - the only time I intentionally block traffic is when some boob decides to spend half a mile in the bus/bike/right turn lane and can no longer either get out of it to pass me.

Did these guys have huge amounts of stuff bolted to their bicycles? If so, they were "loaded tourers", cyclist-camper types who generally get their directions on Mapquest and, having biked way too far in the last few days already, probably weren't in a particularly healthy state of mind. Otherwise, they're just morons.

Originally posted by: Gibson486
Bikers think they oon the road as much cars cars do.

Around here, it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk, and in most areas, bikes effectively *do* have equal rights.

If you really want to hate someone, hate people who insist on riding very fast on sidewalks while drunk, expecting people to move out of their way. If you're blind or hard of hearing, this might be an impossibility....and stopping distance on bicycles is actually pretty poor.

And in Boston, it is the same thing ( i used to cycle everywhere). Still, you do not hog the road. If you want equal rights, then that means you also have to obey the rules also. That means you stop at every stop sign, you use hand signals, and you do not cut people off. If i did some of those things on a motorcycle, i'd be given a ticket.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Gibson486

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I flatly refuse to ride anywhere but the middle of the road. I've come a bit closer than I'd like to being killed when people tried to pass me without leaving my lane. That said, why on earth would you ride in such a stupid road? Also, while riding on the far edge of the road is a recipie for a flat tire, destroyed rim, and a faceplant, stopping on the far edge of the road after you've got two people behind you is common courtesy - the only time I intentionally block traffic is when some boob decides to spend half a mile in the bus/bike/right turn lane and can no longer either get out of it to pass me.

Did these guys have huge amounts of stuff bolted to their bicycles? If so, they were "loaded tourers", cyclist-camper types who generally get their directions on Mapquest and, having biked way too far in the last few days already, probably weren't in a particularly healthy state of mind. Otherwise, they're just morons.

Originally posted by: Gibson486
Bikers think they oon the road as much cars cars do.

Around here, it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk, and in most areas, bikes effectively *do* have equal rights.

If you really want to hate someone, hate people who insist on riding very fast on sidewalks while drunk, expecting people to move out of their way. If you're blind or hard of hearing, this might be an impossibility....and stopping distance on bicycles is actually pretty poor.

And in Boston, it is the same thing ( i used to cycle everywhere). Still, you do not hog the road. If you want equal rights, then that means you also have to obey the rules also. That means you stop at every stop sign, you use hand signals, and you do not cut people off. If i did some of those things on a motorcycle, i'd be given a ticket.

Agreed! I try to adhere to traffic laws on my bicycle, with a few exceptions. On my regular route there are two places where the road becomes extremely congested with little maneuverability. At both of those places, I will go through the intersection that proceeds them on the pedestrian walk sign. It is technically illegal, but it's far safer for everyone involved because I am clear of the narrowed and heavily trafficked roads before the next wave of cars comes.

I think the biggest problem for bikers is that most American cities just aren't good for bikers. If you hang out next to the cars that are parallel parked, you run the risk of getting hit by someone opening a door, hitting a pedestrian that doesn't bother to look, getting hit by a car pulling out of a spot or turning on to the street, etc. If you drive closer to the middle of the road you block traffic or at least make it difficult for traffic to pass. In Boston, you can't use the sidewalks and, even if you could they're full of pedestrians. Even in Brookline or Cambridge there are bike paths, but they often are incomplete and disappear when you need them most (when the streets narrow).

When we're talking about morons, let's not forget the men and women who feel like walking or jogging in the road rather than on the perfectly good sidewalk. What really irks me are the old folks around here who have their wheeled walkers in front of them and are strolling down the side of the road. It's a road! It's already narrow! There are cars parking, cars driving, people biking, trucks making deliveries and now everyone has to worry about your old ass walking in the street? Gah.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Sounds like the main issue here is they were riding two abreast on a single lane road. As a cyclist I would allow cars to pass if i thought I was creating a backlog.

 

[thescreensavers]

I had a Bicyclist drift into my lane right as I was about to try to pass him. He was in the Cycle lane before and just freaking moved into my lane. Thank god for the all mighty torque converter LOL

 

[Blintok]

And in Boston, it is the same thing ( i used to cycle everywhere). Still, you do not hog the road. If you want equal rights, then that means you also have to obey the rules also. That means you stop at every stop sign, you use hand signals, and you do not cut people off. If i did some of those things on a motorcycle, i'd be given a ticket.

funny thing about what you say is around here i can say same about cars. I ride both a pedal bike and motorcycle. I try to take quieter side streets/bike routes when possible. Atleast 95% of cars NEVER stop at stop signs and just roll thru. One would think cars around here have no signals as alot dont use them. Lets crack down on ALL bad drivers whether its bikes/cars etc...

the way some drive around here it is amazing they passed the driving test. Love the ones that decide they want to be in your lane regardless if you happen to be there or not. (when i am on motorcycle)
around here speed limits are just a suggestion. and i think they convert the kp/h to mp/h
50kph = 50mph ... 80kph = 80mph etc

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
In Washington state, if you are holding up 5 or more people you are required by law to pull over to the side and stop to allow other traffic to pass.

But only if (1) there is a safe place to pull over to, (2) there is no way for traffic to safely pass, and (3) only if you are below the speed of normal traffic flow at that time & place. It's also worth noting that it's not a bicycle-specific law in Washington, either... that law applies to everyone. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

Their choice of road to ride on was pretty bad too. 45mph speed limit with people usually traveling in excess of that.

...

if the biker would just stick to back roads. There are plenty around that make for great riding.

Well, this cyclist will be riding wherever he wants to, other than the rare restricted-access areas. Get used to the fact that no, you are not entitled to go at 100% of the speed limit without ever having to accomodate another human being who's driving something slower, whether it's a bus, a bicycle, a farm tractor, or a semi. Comes with the territory, bro.

That said, I'm as accomodating to people in cars as practical. If there's a rideable shoulder that isn't a minefield of broken glass, gravel and other hazards, sure, I'll move over for you. If we're in the twisties, I'll help you get by. But if you think I'm going to just go away and ride some other roads so you never have to be inconvenienced for a single moment, that's Not Going To Happen :evil:


Counterpoint: If I had a dollar for every time a slow motorist has delayed me while I'm cycling, I'd have a nice downpayment on a house by now.

 

[cheesehead]

Originally posted by: mechBgon


Counterpoint: If I had a dollar for every time a slow motorist has delayed me while I'm cycling, I'd have a nice downpayment on a house by now.

Counterpoint: I don't own a car.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: mechBgon

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
In Washington state, if you are holding up 5 or more people you are required by law to pull over to the side and stop to allow other traffic to pass.

But only if (1) there is a safe place to pull over to, (2) there is no way for traffic to safely pass, and (3) only if you are below the speed of normal traffic flow at that time & place. It's also worth noting that it's not a bicycle-specific law in Washington, either... that law applies to everyone. http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=46.61.427

All true. All also (largely) irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

1) There are almost no places on earth where a bicycle has no safe place in which to pull over. Certainly there was safe space in which to pull over in the situation described by the OP.

2) The OP specifically mentioned that there were no legal passing zones on the road.

3) I sincerely doubt that the bicycles were moving at 45 mph, which is the speed listed by the OP as the limit for the road in question.

4) Of course it applies to all vehicles. Bicycles are vehicles and are regulated by all laws that apply to vehicles when operating on public roads.

ZV