BFG KDW's vs Dunlop Direzzas vs something else

[phucheneh]

Oh shiz.

I'm assuming you're friends with exdeath...and you're building a toyoter? Is it of the massive turbo variety?

I wanna see exdeath spanked by a turbo six. ;-*

Well, okay, I'll be reasonable; I wanna see somebody give him a run for his money. I think he's just about at the limits of possible acceleration in a street car; beating him isn't really an option unless we do it with a pipe.

 

[jlee]

Oh shiz.

I'm assuming you're friends with exdeath...and you're building a toyoter? Is it of the massive turbo variety?

I wanna see exdeath spanked by a turbo six. ;-*

Well, okay, I'll be reasonable; I wanna see somebody give him a run for his money. I think he's just about at the limits of possible acceleration in a street car; beating him isn't really an option unless we do it with a pipe.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2315263

If you want to donate to the stroker fund, a 2.3l 5sgte with my GT3071, a straight runner intake manifold and an a2w intercooler would make my MR2 pretty close (~500whp), assuming I could hook (or 600-800+whp with a bigger turbo and more fuel). Sadly, that's an expensive project so I'm going to have to settle for ~400whp in the meantime.

Yeah but if I get the engine pulled on the IS before you do that, that will be a sad day for car people everywhere.

We could do that on Saturday..just to aggravate exdeath into finally tearing his car apart. :awe:

 

[phucheneh]

Oh yeah, also, thread:

Eff Tire Rack. Why do I have to select a vehicle to see a catalog of wheels? I literally can ONLY see 7-8" wide 17 and 18" wheels. It hides everything else, including available widths and offsets for the bolt pattern that it deems 'does not fit.' I'll decide if it fits, douches, just show me the complete array of options.

The problem right now with this car is that the 18's on it are not quite right in the width/offset area. 7.5" front, 8.5" rear, both +40. Rear fits nice, but is too close to the fender lip to fit maximum tire wifth. The 255's would rub if it was lower.

Fronts would fit fine on stock brakes. Pretty close to fender well, but no rubbing. Well, because of the brakes, it's got like 20mm spacers to clear calipers. I could probably take it down to a 10mm spacer and get rid of the rubbing, but it's still not an optimal fit.

I haven't checked yet, but I think the rear wheels would actually clear the front brakes and get the tire (would be a 225) tucked in better. 225/40 on an 18x8.5" wouldn't look terribly stretched...the sidewall would just be barely starting to move past 'flat' and into 'stretch' territory, I think.

Reason that's relevant, is 'cause I could then just find two wider wheels to put on the rear. They're Volk le37's; I know 9-10" wheels are out there. Need to find someone who wrecked one or both front wheels and are selling off their rears or some such. Or I could just buy a whole set, then throw the four wheels I don't want back up for sale...which kinda makes you say 'well...time to just buy different wheels.'

So that's probably what's going to happen. Or the 'fuck it' route where I just downsize the front spacers a bit, keep the same tires on the front, and put 255 R888's on the back. Is it dumb to not just do this? Rear fitment of a 255/35/18 with the current wheels is zero problem. But the fronts, with 225's, definitely smack the fenders if you go off-roading.

 

[phucheneh]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2315263

If you want to donate to the stroker fund, a 2.3l 5sgte with my GT3071, a straight runner intake manifold and an a2w intercooler would make my MR2 pretty close (~500whp), assuming I could hook (or 600-800+whp with a bigger turbo and more fuel). Sadly, that's an expensive project so I'm going to have to settle for ~400whp in the meantime.

Oh...that...kind of turbo Toyota. ....


I don't dislike your car or anything, but I think you're gonna need the magical 2jz to boost exdeath's face up his ass. :awe:

If someone's got the cash, though, you can obviously still make 500-600+ hp with the 4cyl (but it's a lot cheaper with the 6). But a 3071 'snot gonna cut it...what do you have to do to that four-banger to spool a 3788? :hmm:

 

[Black2na]

for someone so obviously versed in cars. Im honestly surprised in this thread. with a car with that much throttle oversteer you gonna wanna stagger. and even then a car with that much power or lack of grip due to tires a WOT 3rd gear pull involves more pedal finesse then smashing to floor. i can tell from experence that the Star Specs are much stickier then the KDW's by alot we have run both tires on the Lemons/Chump Cars. and the avg like span of a star spec tire is in the 10-15k mile range. i honestly think this will give you enough grip but also enough give to not go snapping driveline bits. and if you find them to not be enough you can upgrade to RS3's. but either way your gonna need to run a staggered setup to keep the rear in check of the front. most of this is personal experence with these tires.

 

[thomsbrain]

If you want to run 245 or 255, you should be looking at 9" wheel widths to get the most out of the tires. But those are tire sizes for a 200 HP car, not a 600 HP car. If you want to hook up, you need more tire. But if your drivetrain can't handle hooking up, why do you want more traction? Build the car right and you will be able to use the right rubber.

There are stock S2000's running 275 Hoosier slicks for auto-x, and you're worried a 245 DOT tire might be too grippy? It's not even in the ballpark of enough grip.

 

[phucheneh]

If you want to run 245 or 255, you should be looking at 9" wheel widths to get the most out of the tires. But those are tire sizes for a 200 HP car, not a 600 HP car. If you want to hook up, you need more tire. But if your drivetrain can't handle hooking up, why do you want more traction? Build the car right and you will be able to use the right rubber.

There are stock S2000's running 275 Hoosier slicks for auto-x, and you're worried a 245 DOT tire might be too grippy? It's not even in the ballpark of enough grip.

How do people not understand this...

The current driveline is fine. For street driving. For any amount of acceleration/hooking up...as long as you're moving. I think I stated something about being leery of really sticky tires because of the potential for the owner to inevitably try and holeshot it and start snapping stuff. You just shouldn't even get into boost in first gear, it's not worth it. And what happens if you spin the tires on launch? Oh yeah...nothing. The back end might want to walk out to the side, but it's easy to control.

However, when violently snapping the back end loose in third or fourth gear, it is not very easy to control. This is not about 60' times; it's not even about breaking loose after shifting gears. It is purely about being somewhat confident that you can drive the car hard (not at WOT) without that pesky spike in the power band throwing you into a tree.

 

[jlee]

Oh...that...kind of turbo Toyota. ....


I don't dislike your car or anything, but I think you're gonna need the magical 2jz to boost exdeath's face up his ass. :awe:

If someone's got the cash, though, you can obviously still make 500-600+ hp with the 4cyl (but it's a lot cheaper with the 6). But a 3071 'snot gonna cut it...what do you have to do to that four-banger to spool a 3788? :hmm:

A 3071 can do around 500whp with really good spool - considering an MR2 will run 11's with ~340whp, 400 should be more than enough for a street car. Sadly it won't run with the Cobra but it'll be good enough.

 

[Fenixgoon]

absolutely LOVE my ZII's..i'll say that.

 

[jlee]

How do people not understand this...

The current driveline is fine. For street driving. For any amount of acceleration/hooking up...as long as you're moving. I think I stated something about being leery of really sticky tires because of the potential for the owner to inevitably try and holeshot it and start snapping stuff. You just shouldn't even get into boost in first gear, it's not worth it. And what happens if you spin the tires on launch? Oh yeah...nothing. The back end might want to walk out to the side, but it's easy to control.

However, when violently snapping the back end loose in third or fourth gear, it is not very easy to control. This is not about 60' times; it's not even about breaking loose after shifting gears. It is purely about being somewhat confident that you can drive the car hard (not at WOT) without that pesky spike in the power band throwing you into a tree.

I am of the opinion you can never have too much grip.

 

[exdeath]

Sigh don't make me go 5.8 aluminum stroker and twin 67s on E85 ....

I'm only at 624 rwhp on 91 on a stock long block. Plenty of Supras and other Cobras could destroy me, just none in my neighborhood :awe:

Meh I'm nowhere near the limits for street car acceleration. See: AWD TT Lambos

 

[phucheneh]

It turns out that the front wheels needed almost no spacing on this. They had 15mm bolt-on spacers (looked thicker...still significant, though). I pulled everything apart and test fit the front wheels...okay, touching the brake caliper. Throw on some 1-2mm thick washers (for test-fitting purposes only, of course)...clears. Looks pretty slick with the wheel really hugging the caliper.

Ordered some 3mm spacers. So fronts will now fit right, and rears fit 'good enough.' Wish they were 9" or more and sitting further in, but at least 255's fit well on them.

So it's going to be 255/35/18 R888's on rear, 225/40/18 KDW on front. Should be driveable.

Tirerack have the best price on these? I think they're 250 a piece.

also, exdeath, I thought you had that up to like 750 or something? Obviously 600 is a lot, it's just not quite 100% completely absurd. :awe: Am I thinking of someone else? I thought you were pretty much ATG horsepower king.

And I meant more 'limits of acceleration in a modified front engine/RWD car.' As opposed to an AWD supercar.

Even then...on non-interstates or other straight, high-speed roads, the times where you can actually apply all that horsepower are ludicrously brief.

 

[exdeath]

It turns out that the front wheels needed almost no spacing on this. They had 15mm bolt-on spacers (looked thicker...still significant, though). I pulled everything apart and test fit the front wheels...okay, touching the brake caliper. Throw on some 1-2mm thick washers (for test-fitting purposes only, of course)...clears. Looks pretty slick with the wheel really hugging the caliper.

Ordered some 3mm spacers. So fronts will now fit right, and rears fit 'good enough.' Wish they were 9" or more and sitting further in, but at least 255's fit well on them.

So it's going to be 255/35/18 R888's on rear, 225/40/18 KDW on front. Should be driveable.

Tirerack have the best price on these? I think they're 250 a piece.

also, exdeath, I thought you had that up to like 750 or something? Obviously 600 is a lot, it's just not quite 100% completely absurd. :awe: Am I thinking of someone else? I thought you were pretty much ATG horsepower king.

And I meant more 'limits of acceleration in a modified front engine/RWD car.' As opposed to an AWD supercar.

Even then...on non-interstates or other straight, high-speed roads, the times where you can actually apply all that horsepower are ludicrously brief.

I will just say 700+ some times when talking among people that race brochures which list BHP and who don't know the difference just to keep things fair :awe:

Was at 700+ RWHP a long time ago but I ended up going back to a pullied Eaton hard top that I was eventually going to run a twin turbo setup on, but then I fell into a good deal on a KB 2.6 so here we are again...

If my 91 pump gas 17 psi bolt on bitty 4.6L Terminator at 624 RWHP is ATG horsepower king we have a sad garage :awe:

 

[phucheneh]

I will just say 700+ some times when talking among people that race brochures which list BHP and who don't know the difference just to keep things fair :awe:

Was at 700+ RWHP a long time ago but I ended up going back to a pullied Eaton hard top that I was eventually going to run a twin turbo setup on, but then I fell into a good deal on a KB 2.6 so here we are again...

If my 91 pump gas 17 psi bolt on bitty 4.6L Terminator at 624 RWHP is ATG horsepower king we have a sad garage :awe:

I mean...is anyone else rocking a 600+hp car? That seems to be the magic number these days. 300-400 is nothing, 500 is a lot, 600 is the perfect amount of wacky. Anyone who says 'I have 500hp'...you know they're just guessing. 600 sounds like serious business.

I put the front spacers on today; wheels fit like a dream. Is it weird that I entertained myself for like five minutes by spinning the wheel and watching it swish by ~0.5mm away from the brake caliper? It's looks slick as hell.

Since we're not going for stupid-close fender clearance, I think the fronts are officially good to go. But I'm noticing more that, even with just the 255's, I think the rear fender lips need to be rolled. Couple of chubby people in the back, and the outside edge of the tread block is going to be cutting itself up.

Anybody done rolling? Wish it was the front that needed it, as those fenders need paint, anyhow. I'm leery of trying the back and ending up with cracked paint on the quarter panel.

edit: didn't know 'fender rolling' was a service offered on craigslist...
http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/3703143097.html
http://nashville.craigslist.org/pts/3629193875.html

 

[JCH13]

I rolled the front fenders on my Miata with an aluminum jack handle in the parking lot of an autox event.


I don't recommend it. :sneaky:

Edit: keep an eye on those brake clearances, wheels are not infinitely rigid. Ask me how I know...

 

[phucheneh]

I rolled the front fenders on my Miata with an aluminum jack handle in the parking lot of an autox event.


I don't recommend it. :sneaky:

Edit: keep an eye on those brake clearances, wheels are not infinitely rigid. Ask me how I know...

...how do you know?:\

I would figure the spokes of an aluminum wheel are pretty immobile. Caliper is definitely immobile.

Without spacers, I'm pretty sure the wheel was seating fully. And it turned. Kind of. Just left a line on the caliper where it rubbed and made a relatively awful noise. So now it's 3mm past 'slight interference'...I was figuring that would more than enough for heat-related expansion and whatnot, but no, I was not counting on the wheel flexing.

 

[phucheneh]

Sorry for crap mode on camera. Also you might wanna turn the audio down, the rusty rotor grinding is loud as hell for some reason.

But this is what it looks like.

You can see that the spot that was rubbing is on the inner edge of the caliper, close to the center of the wheel. If that clearance changes, I would think something would have to be wrong. Like non-hubcentric wheels tightened hastily (these have rings).

 

[JCH13]

...how do you know?:\

I would figure the spokes of an aluminum wheel are pretty immobile. Caliper is definitely immobile.

Without spacers, I'm pretty sure the wheel was seating fully. And it turned. Kind of. Just left a line on the caliper where it rubbed and made a relatively awful noise. So now it's 3mm past 'slight interference'...I was figuring that would more than enough for heat-related expansion and whatnot, but no, I was not counting on the wheel flexing.

Was using 3-piece wheels on an FSAE car, a spun aluminum drum with mag centers. The top and bottom of the upright was about 1/16in from the inside of the drum (not my design) and the 13in (?) wheel on a 470lb car flexed enough to start grinding a groove in the wheel drum.

Even a bad scoring around the inside of a wheel would be enough for me to take that wheel out of service because the score would be the perfect place for cracks to start growing.

 

[phucheneh]

I'll just make this my new 'this car' thread.

I threw a glasspack on the exhaust today to try and get it to make a little less racket...you can only make a free-flowing 3" exhaust so quiet.

It's way more tolerable inside the car, though. Still loud as hell from behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFxRl9kEH6g

 

[XavierMace]

And yet you were still trying to argue with me on why turbo GE is the way to go.

 

[phucheneh]

And yet you were still trying to argue with me on why turbo GE is the way to go.

I never argued with you. I simply questioned the engine swap route, and you seemed to get really offended like I said something about your mother.:\

Obviously this car isn't smog legal. Anywhere.

A GTE wouldn't be, either. At least not at this power level...I don't know what kind of numbers you can make before you HAVE to go standalone.

Also, you know, I could just cut the wires for the MIL (and TCS lights, those were probably on, too). Doesn't CHANGE anything, but you wouldn't be able to cite the light as a reason for an LSx over a 2JZ.

Again, if you're saying you can get the same power out of an LS motor without tripping ANY DTC's in a GM PCM, more power to you. I just don't see the point of trying to build a 600hp engine with cats, EGR, or any of that other lovely stuff.

Anyhow, how's it sound? I think it sounds like farts. But the kind of farts that will shoot you to the moon. :awe:

 

[XavierMace]

I get annoyed when people basically tell me they think my idea is stupid for no other reason than because they said so. I had already explained why turbo/GTE isn't an option but you still came in and basically said you think I'm an idiot because I'm not going the turbo route.

I don't know how things work where you live but I have to pass emissions to legally drive my car on the street. If you don't understand why I would want to build a 600hp engine for I can legally drive on the street, I'm not going to try to explain it. I'm also not sure why you think getting 600hp out of an LS with throwing codes would be hard. GM sells crate LS's at the 550hp level. Unless you think stock GM's throw codes right from the factory.

 

[phucheneh]

Uh, I don't think I ever called you an idiot. But you do have me wondering now.

You take shit way too personally. Your jets; cool them.