Bettor wins $1.3 million; Internet casino won't pay

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phonemonkey

Senior member
Feb 2, 2003
806
0
0
They should be willing to pay, but if he didn't use any bots in the game, he shouldn't have been saying that he did (either in the sarcastic post nor in the phone conversation with the company itself).

I think I'll wait till there's more regulation on the industry before I start betting real money on online games.
 
XZeroII

XZeroII

Lifer
Jun 30, 2001
12,572
0
0
If he did use a bot, then he shouldn't get his money because he violated the rules.
 
R

ReiAyanami

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2002
4,466
0
0
he's a former computer programmer

he turned $1,000 or $10,000 into $1.3 million. before doing that he managed to win $96,000 at a different online casino that account was also frozen

i mean if ppl can program bots that can headshot with a colt .45 everytime in counterstrike, i'm sure they can do it for shady overseas online casinos
 
F

fs5

Lifer
Jun 10, 2000
11,774
1
0
it shouldn't matter if he used a bot or not because the program that the casino licensed should NOT be exploitable like this.
 
W

Wuffsunie

Platinum Member
May 4, 2002
2,808
0
0
Possible online cheating, casinos refusing to pay out huge winnings... none of this is surprising in the least.
 
Y

y2kc

Platinum Member
Sep 2, 2000
2,547
0
76
sounds like he cheated and admitted to it as well in the article... if true, he shouldn't get the money.
 
B

bsmithy

Senior member
Oct 24, 2003
458
0
0
reading that i was all like "stick it to the MAN"

then i saw his name..

"Pirateofc21"

looses some sympathy
 
Kyteland

Kyteland

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 2002
5,747
1
81
Originally posted by: fivespeed5
it shouldn't matter if he used a bot or not because the program that the casino licensed should NOT be exploitable like this.
Click to expand...

That is not true. A lot of gambling games have no statistical house edge when considering perfect play. A lot of video poker games are like this. The reason the casinos allow games which return better than 100% is because a human is incapable of memorizing the tables necessary to perform perfect play. Those tables are literally tens of thousands of rules long. I know, I compute them for a living. If a game has a 102% return on perfect play, then it may only return 99% on a simplified (ie a person could memorize it) strategy.

If "Pirate" was indeed using a bot to play and the casino had a log of all his playing then they should be able to reconstruct the ruleset he is using to play the game. If there are only a few general rules he uses which he occasionally violates (going for the long shot even when its not to his advantage and the like) then he probably did the playing himself. If there are thousands of rules which very consistantly conform to perfect strategy, then he was probably using a bot.
 
Vic

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
He should be paid. If you download the phonecall wavs from the article and listen to them, you will hear that his "confession" was coerced -- the casino threatened that they would not not pay him unless he confessed, so he foolishly played along.

Don't think that casinos don't cheat themselves. Quite the contrary, they stack the odds against you any way they can. For example, the large Spirit Mountain Indian Gaming Casino in Grande Ronde, OR tried to get out of paying a 1+ million dollar slots jackpot to a lady a few years back because, according to the casino, the machine in question was not supposed to have paid out a jackpot that day so the lady "must" have cheated. The casino lost in court.
 
D

Dark4ng3l

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2000
5,061
1
0
Whether or not he cheated does not matter. If thay cannot prove that he did cheat he should get the money period. If I win in a real casino by having an unfair advantage and they cannot prove I cheated they give you the money. Innocent until proven guilty. They owe this guy his money period.
 
Kyteland

Kyteland

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 2002
5,747
1
81
Originally posted by: Vic
He should be paid. If you download the phonecall wavs from the article and listen to them, you will hear that his "confession" was coerced -- the casino threatened that they would not not pay him unless he confessed, so he foolishly played along.

Don't think that casinos don't cheat themselves. Quite the contrary, they stack the odds against you any way they can. For example, the large Spirit Mountain Indian Gaming Casino in Grande Ronde, OR tried to get out of paying a 1+ million dollar slots jackpot to a lady a few years back because, according to the casino, the machine in question was not supposed to have paid out a jackpot that day so the lady "must" have cheated. The casino lost in court.
Click to expand...

The gambling industry is highly regulated and most casinos have little if no incentive to cheat. Remember that they are using the laws of statistical probability to take their cut from every bet made. They do not need to make "hot" machines stop paying out, or place said machines at the front of machine banks. That is all supersticious bullsh!t.

I would love to see a link to the article you described abouve. Any casino manager who claims that a prize is not "due" should probably lose their job because of incompitence. With any progressive or jackpot system there is an equal chance that it will rehit on the next spin as there is after it hasn't hit for a year. The casinos don't make decisions on when things pay or how much. The laws of probability do.
 
Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
If he did use a bot he wrote, he could get back at the Casinos by posting it on the net for anyone to use. A smart individual couid use it and get away with it if they don't get to greedy
 
Kyteland

Kyteland

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 2002
5,747
1
81
Originally posted by: Kyteland
Originally posted by: Vic
He should be paid. If you download the phonecall wavs from the article and listen to them, you will hear that his "confession" was coerced -- the casino threatened that they would not not pay him unless he confessed, so he foolishly played along.

Don't think that casinos don't cheat themselves. Quite the contrary, they stack the odds against you any way they can. For example, the large Spirit Mountain Indian Gaming Casino in Grande Ronde, OR tried to get out of paying a 1+ million dollar slots jackpot to a lady a few years back because, according to the casino, the machine in question was not supposed to have paid out a jackpot that day so the lady "must" have cheated. The casino lost in court.
Click to expand...

The gambling industry is highly regulated and most casinos have little if no incentive to cheat. Remember that they are using the laws of statistical probability to take their cut from every bet made. They do not need to make "hot" machines stop paying out, or place said machines at the front of machine banks. That is all supersticious bullsh!t.

I would love to see a link to the article you described abouve. Any casino manager who claims that a prize is not "due" should probably lose their job because of incompitence. With any progressive or jackpot system there is an equal chance that it will rehit on the next spin as there is after it hasn't hit for a year. The casinos don't make decisions on when things pay or how much. The laws of probability do.
Click to expand...

Edit: I should say that casinos in the US subject to US laws are highly regulated. I can't speak for other casinos, especially those online. If online casions were regulated then this whole thing would probably have been avoided. If it were then this guy's entire play history would have been logged on a computer somewhere and then a guy like me would be able to use those logs to determine if he had indeed used a bot.

Edit: That wasn't the edit button. :Q
 
Kyteland

Kyteland

Diamond Member
Dec 30, 2002
5,747
1
81
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
If he did use a bot he wrote, he could get back at the Casinos by posting it on the net for anyone to use. A smart individual couid use it and get away with it if they don't get to greedy
Click to expand...

Not really. Bots don't let you win in that they give you better cards, but that they let you decide what cards to hold to give you the best statistical advantage. Also note that bots don't guarantee you win. If you start with $1000 and bet $250 a hand, even with perfect play you will probably get cleaned out. The only way to "win" in a game like this is to play a massive amount of games. That is what it takes to converge to the statistical average. What the bot does is let you make decisions faster, hence play faster. The more games you play, the more likely you are to fall with a certain +- of the average. This is exactly why computers aren't allowed in physical casinos, they want you to slow down and make mistakes.

Remember that if everyone has the bot then so does the casino. It can watch for plays that come in that follow the ruleset found in the bot code. If they notice a guy playing extremely fast and always playing perfectly (or playing like the bot in question) then it is safe to assume they are using a bot and can void all their plays.
 

It's the casinos responsibility to protect themselves against this type of stuff.

So what if someone had a whole bible of card playing and a army of professionals on his side when he plays?
Is that against the rules?

This casino is shady and know they got beat, and now won't pay up.
 
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