Better stereo Sound From Polk Audio 5.1 Speakers (Bi-Amping)

[5to1baby1in5]

I'm a bit of an audio newb. and would appreciate any advice to get me pointed in the right direction.

My current setup works fine for movies, but sounds muddy/not so clear when listening to stereo music (I can not really distinguish the individual instruments), and I would like to improve it if I can.

I have a 5.1 setup with Polk Audio Monitor 70's for Front Right and Left, Monitor 40's for Rear Right and Left, CS2 Center and PSW 505 Sub.

The front (Monitor 70) speakers each have 4 individual speakers and a tweeter, and each speaker has two separate pairs of inputs with a small copper bar that connects them both together. The top input on each speaker powers the two top speakers and the tweeter, and the bottom input powers the two bottom speakers. I believe I could remove the bar between the top and bottom inputs and install an (in-line powered 2-channel crossover)? to send higher frequencies to the top two speakers & tweeter while sending lower frequencies to the two bottom speakers. This would have to be done through the speaker wires as I only have speaker wire outputs from the AVR (no RCA jacks except for the subwolfer/LFE).

Whenever I search for crossovers, however, I only find links to car audio equipment, but nothing for home audio.
Am I barking up the wrong tree? Should I be looking for a better AVR or adding amplifiers?

AV Receiver is a Harman/Kardon AVR1700.
The AVR crossover frequency to the fronts and rears is set at 120 Hz.
The crossover to the center is set at 80 Hz.
These seem to be the best settings for music.

I mostly play music on my PC and connect to the AVR via an HDMI cable through the video card.
Any loss of music quality there?

Thanks.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

I found this site on passive bi-amping a 7.1 AVR to the front speakers.
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-HA6G5V2qhnD/learn/why-biamp-your-speakers.html
You basically take the Height outputs and wire them to the 2nd input of the front speakers. Should be able to adjust the crossover frequency of the Front and Height outputs so that the top speakers get higher/mid frequencies and the bottom speakers get the lower frequencies.

I believeI was talking about active bi-amping above which would require active crossovers and additional amps.
According to this site, the quality improvement is negligible.
http://www.audioholics.com/frequent-questions/the-difference-between-biamping-vs-biwiring

Edit: Here is a more detailed website.
http://sound.whsites.net/bi-amp.htm

A better AVR might be the way to go.

 

[mdram]

i agree a new avr is in order
that one got so/so reviews
you can see here
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/harman-kardon-avr-1700-av-receiver
https://www.soundandvision.com/content/harman-kardon-avr-1700-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Are you playing the music via surround or 2.1?
Is PC input uncompressed digital audio via high quality HDMI cable?

You really shouldn't be having any problems pushing clean sound to a pair of 8 ohm speakers rated nominal 50w. Your receiver is rated at twice that. Rule out the cheap and easy solutions before you jump down the bi-amp red herring rabbit hole.

 

[jtvang125]

There should already be some type of passive crossover inside because if there wasn't the tweeter would be fried when fed a full range signal. Bi-amping can give you better sound by giving you the ability to feed each speaker more power than a single input being split among all the speakers.

 

[razel]

Unless you're able to also set crossovers separately for tweeter and woofers before feeding the amp, which most AVRs don't do, then don't bother with bi-amping for home. You can get better quality by adjusting the placement of your speakers or even small acoustic treatments to your home. I mean as simple as pillows. If you have a table right in between your speakers in front of your couch, removing that or placing pillows on it helps. Additionally putting pillows above the couch against the back wall or the 1st reflection area toward the sides of your speakers helps tremendously. If you want to go all out to see how good your speakers can sound in your room, try placing them in near field configuration. You probably don't want to leave it that way, but it's a good test to see how good it can sound in your room.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

Monkey,
I'm listening in 5.1 stereo. The PC input is via a 30' Monoprice HDMI cable designed to run through ducts. It's probably not the highest quality, but it's not super cheap either.
The music doesn't really sound that bad. It's just that some (mid-range) instruments seem to drop out when a lot of lower frequencies are being pushed really hard. They come back when the lower frequencies pass. An example would be Peter Gabriel's 'The Rythem Of The Heat' at 01:04. There is a rhythm instrument that continuously plays in the background, and when the lower/bass frequencies kick in, the instrument almost completely drops out. When the low frequencies pass as 01:10 it comes back.

razel,
I won't even attempt bi-amping. Too much money and effort for me.
I tried moving the front speakers closer in and away from the wall, and it definitely sounds better.
I had the 12' apart and I was about 11 feet from the speakers. They are now 7' away from each other and I am 10' from the speakers.

 

[OlyAR15]

Sounds like you have issues with room standing waves. Next to the speakers, room acoustics probably make the most difference in sound quality. This is something I'm battling with my home theatre system.

Edit: I'm also assuming you've checked the obvious things like ensuring polarity is correct on all your speakers.

 

[5to1baby1in5]

OlyAR15,
Yes, I double checked and polarity is correct.
If I turn off all of the speakers but the fronts and put my head right next to the right one, I can still hear the instrument drop out. I tried turning the volume down, and it still happens.

I was thinking that the MP3 may be bad (made it from the CD), but that's not the case.
When I play the song on the original CD through the PC, then the instrument still cuts out.
I tried playing the song on CD through my blu-ray player, and the instrument doesn't cut out.

Sounds like Monkey may be correct.
Something between the PC and the AVR must be causing the drop.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Monkey,
I'm listening in 5.1 stereo.
.

There's your problem.... and the fix is FREE! When listening to music use 2.0 or 2.1. Not a lot of music is optimized for 5.1. Most music recording studios work with a front sound stage only. The exact complaint you are writing about is inability to distinguish instruments from each other. That's because the signal was processed by the sound engineer(s) for 2.x reproduction. By sending the signal to surround sound you are asking the amp to process it in a way that is more conducive to watching TV or movies.

 

[blackangst1]

Unless you're able to also set crossovers separately for tweeter and woofers before feeding the amp, which most AVRs don't do, then don't bother with bi-amping for home. You can get better quality by adjusting the placement of your speakers or even small acoustic treatments to your home. I mean as simple as pillows. If you have a table right in between your speakers in front of your couch, removing that or placing pillows on it helps. Additionally putting pillows above the couch against the back wall or the 1st reflection area toward the sides of your speakers helps tremendously. If you want to go all out to see how good your speakers can sound in your room, try placing them in near field configuration. You probably don't want to leave it that way, but it's a good test to see how good it can sound in your room.

This

 

[slashbinslashbash]

There's your problem.... and the fix is FREE! When listening to music use 2.0 or 2.1. Not a lot of music is optimized for 5.1. Most music recording studios work with a front sound stage only. The exact complaint you are writing about is inability to distinguish instruments from each other. That's because the signal was processed by the sound engineer(s) for 2.x reproduction. By sending the signal to surround sound you are asking the amp to process it in a way that is more conducive to watching TV or movies.

This. Put it in 2.0 stereo mode. There are a lot of ways to extract 5.1 channels from a 2.0 signal, but most of them involve playing around phases, which can cause weird artifacts like that. You'll never get a great stereo soundstage when listening to 2.0 music through a 5.1 system. Most everything will be played in the Center channel as well as the L/R, and that's a recipe for hearing one sound across the whole front. (If you have 5.1 music from a Blu-Ray or something then by all means use 5.1 to listen. I'm talking about pure stereo sources here like a CD.) You won't hear anything different left, right, or center. A good stereo mix should be able to place instruments on a stereo soundstage, but keep in mind, not all recordings do a good job of this.

 

[Rifter]

The speakers arnt your issue, ive got the same speakers and feed them from a HK receiver @ 120w/channel. They are crystal clear. Your issue likely lies in the signal being sent as mentioned above. Put it in 2 channel mode and you will be fine. Do not bother with biamping it will not help.