Best value "Entry Level" gaming PC.

[frozentundra123456]

These integrated low end systems have no chance to compete with the likes of the PS4 or Xbox One. They are at best competing with PS3/XBOX 360 which spend the majority of their time at 30 FPS. The exception to the rule appears to be with racing games (at least the exclusive ones).

http://gearnuke.com/playstation-3-and-xbox-360-exclusives-history-resolution-fps/




Yes you are correct these are not the best value (perhaps my thread title is misleading) systems by any means. The goal is find the best bare minimum entry level system still capable of gaming.

It may seem academic to do this but I believe there is a big market (maybe not in the western world, but definitely in developing countries) that purchases this type of gear and where every dollar makes a big difference.



Approximately how cheap could you build a complete system using the A8-7600?

I really dont want to get into this too much, I guess the final indicator will be sales. But even then, we dont know how many of these low end systems will be used for gaming or just surfing the net and videos.

I dont mean to sound elitist, but I just dont understand the every dollar counts philosophy and then taking on the cost of pc gaming. I have a comfortable income now, but as a child I was very poor, even living in the US. So I do understand the "every dollar counts" situation. I just have a hard time fitting pc gaming into that scenario. And if you are going to get into it, I feel you should be willing to spend the money to get a fairly playable system.

I do think this thread could be useful to those who already have a system to see what kind of games might be possible to play using the existing hardware.

 

[Madpacket]

To answer the question on where do we draw the line on price..

We first we need to determine at the very low end if we are capable enough to play the majority of todays games. If the A4-64xx, 5350 or G3220 are simply not fast enough, we may need to look at more expensive solutions like the 7400K or perhaps faster Core enabled processors or even adding a stand alone card to the original system.

If however the 5350, G3220, A4-63xx are fast enough for the majority of todays games, then it goes against the spirit or goal of this exercise to look at faster solutions. We need to stop at the lowest end (that is still capable of gaming) and determine which is the best value here.

This is why it's important for us to come to some agreement on what "fast enough" means. I laid out my idea of what that this in the OP is and so has cbn. What do others think?

 

[cbn]

Don't buy anything less than an A6, though. The GPU on the A4 is pretty underwhelming.

Regarding the A4, I know its pretty weak (even the A4-7300 only has 192 GCN stream processors at 514 MHz) but we don't really have any good data detailing what resolutions these low end FM2 or FM2+ processors need in order to achieve a playable frame rate.

One purpose of this thread is to determine what those settings need to be:

Screen resolution and graphic detail is important but is secondary in importance to the frame rate.

 

[cbn]

To answer the question on where do we draw the line on price..

We first we need to determine at the very low end if we are capable enough to play the majority of todays games. If the A4-64xx, 5350 or G3220 are simply not fast enough, we may need to look at more expensive solutions like the 7400K or perhaps faster Core enabled processors or even adding a stand alone card to the original system.

If however the 5350, G3220, A4-63xx are fast enough for the majority of todays games, then it goes against the spirit or goal of this exercise to look at faster solutions. We need to stop at the lowest end and determine which is the best value here.

This is why it's important for us to come to some agreement on what "fast enough" means. I laid out my idea of what that this in the OP is and so has cbn. What do others think?

I'm all in favor of that plan.

 

[Yuriman]

I believe I'll try some more demanding games on the 1.4GHz Celeron in my Chromebook and see how well they run in Linux. I may be able to get Titanfall running on it, and see if it's remotely playable.

 

[Shivansps]

To me there is no question that IGP are AM1<1150<FM2

A few exceptions on the FM2 may be the A4-4000 that is really slow, the A4-5300 that is slow and old, and the A4-6300 that might no able to beat HD4600s.

With that in mind, below 100 there quite a few FM2 to pick from, 5400K, 5600K, 6400K, 7300, 7400K...

The 7300 should be better than 6400K/5600K.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Regarding the A4, I know its pretty weak (even the A4-7300 only has 192 GCN stream processors at 514 MHz) but we don't really have any good data detailing what resolutions these low end FM2 or FM2+ processors need in order to achieve a playable frame rate.

One purpose of this thread is to determine what those settings need to be:

I mentioned it because if you shop around -- you can usually buy a new unlocked A6 for around $10 more than the locked A4. Totally worth the ten bucks for the better GPU and the unlocked multiplier. A new A6-5400K will usually run about $55 and blows away the Athlon 5350 in gaming performance with the IGP.

For Integrated Graphics Gaming -- FM2 is unbeatable for price/performance. For gaming, the Black Editions are the way to go -- Trinity and Richlands overclock very well.

 

[Madpacket]

Thanks for the Lego test Shivansp, it definitely runs faster on the GT1 at the same settings compared to the 5350 at 1024x768. We'll need to compare several more games at a few different resolutions to determine if this is a common theme between them.

Does anyone have an A4-6300 / A6-5400K or lower we can compare with?

 

[cbn]

To me there is no question that IGP are AM1<1150<FM2

A few exceptions on the FM2 may be the A4-4000 that is really slow, the A4-5300 that is slow and old, and the A4-6300 that might no able to beat HD4600s.

With that in mind, below 100 there quite a few FM2 to pick from, 5400K, 5600K, 6400K, 7300, 7400K...

The 7300 should be better than 6400K/5600K.

Here are some iGPU specs for FM2 and FM2+:

A6-5400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 760 MHz
A4-5300: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 723 MHz

A6-6400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz
A4-4000: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 724 MHz

A6-7400K: 256 GCN stream processors @ 756 Mhz
A4-7300: 192 GCN stream processors @ 514 MHz 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz (See post #47 for the correction on A4-7300 being Richland based, rather than Kaveri)

 

[Shivansps]

I dont longer have the G3220. It was temporary.

 

[cbn]

I have a G3258 that I could downclock to 3.0 GHz. (Basically making a G3220 because I believe all other specs are the same).

 

[Madpacket]

A6-5400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 760 MHz
A4-5300: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 723 MHz

A6-6400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz
A4-4000: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 724 MHz

A6-7400K: 256 GCN stream processors @ 756 Mhz
A4-7300: 192 GCN stream processors @ 514 MHz

Thanks this helps.

I'm intrigued by the A4-7300....it's only $53 CAD and if the GPU is overclockable it might outperform the 5400/6400K series. Also it has mantle and possibly freesync, this could be a contender.

Now to find a cheap FM2+ board

So looking further at 1150 boards for my G3258 I'm leaning toward the MSI H81M-E33 as the best value. Only $54 CAD and no rebates to deal with. No front panel USB 3 is holding me back some. There's also the Z97 Pentium Anniversary Edition AsRock board for $69 - after rebate though. It's ATX though which is not really what I'm after (looking for mATX or preferably ITX). The ASRock H81M-ITX is decent looking but also missing USB 3 front panel connector...



Hmm..

 

[Madpacket]

I have a G3258 that I could downclock to 3.0 GHz.

Perfect that'll work until my 1150 board arrives. Shivan established Lego is a win for the Pentium/GT1, what other games do you want to test out?

Maybe a game or two from each category (FPS, RPG, Racing, Indy)?

Stick with most popular modern games?

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

Here are some iGPU specs for FM2 and FM2+:

A6-5400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 760 MHz
A4-5300: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 723 MHz

A6-6400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz
A4-4000: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 724 MHz

A6-7400K: 256 GCN stream processors @ 756 Mhz
A4-7300: 192 GCN stream processors @ 514 MHz

Yep, I agree with you on the A4-7300 being better than the A6-5400K and A6-6400K from an iGPU standpoint, but I don't know how big the gap would be? I'm thinking probably not that much better. Actually, the more I think about this...the more I think A6-6400K iGPU vs. A4-7300 iGPU it might be a tough call.

I'd be curious about the A4-7300 -- but I'd probably buy the A6-7400K or A6-6400K just to get the unlocked multiplier. My best friend gets pretty amazing performance out of his A6-6400K overclocked to 4.7 Ghz (water cooled). The biggest downside to the A6-7400k is that you can generally find a Trinity A8 5600K for around the same price. The A8 is older tech, but has stronger CPU performance.

 

[Shivansps]

Perfect that'll work until my 1150 board arrives. Shivan established Lego is a win for the Pentium/GT1, what other games do you want to test out?

Maybe a game or two from each category (FPS, RPG, Racing, Indy)?

Stick with most popular modern games?

Start with most popular ones, lets say, wow, lol...

 

[cbn]

Perfect that'll work until my 1150 board arrives. Shivan established Lego is a win for the Pentium/GT1, what other games do you want to test out?

Maybe a game or two from each category (FPS, RPG, Racing, Indy)?

Stick with most popular modern games?

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[cbn]

I think for my first game I will use Skyrim.

Right now I am pondering what to use for repeatable scenes representative of gameplay. Hopefully I get some basic results up in the next week or two.

 

[cbn]

I'd be curious about the A4-7300 -- but I'd probably buy the A6-7400K or A6-6400K just to get the unlocked multiplier. My best friend gets pretty amazing performance out of his A6-6400K overclocked to 4.7 Ghz (water cooled). The biggest downside to the A6-7400k is that you can generally find a Trinity A8 5600K for around same price. The A8 is older tech, but has stronger CPU performance.

I think A6-7400K is really expensive too.

But then the A4-7300 is supposed to be $39 according to xbit labs:

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/cpu/di..._A_Series_APUs_for_Back_to_School_Season.html

P.S. A4-7300 has ~29% more GPU core power (stream processors x clockspeed) than the Athlon 5350 iGPU. A4-7300 also have dual channel memory, a big improvement over the 5350s single channel. (EDIT: A4-7300 is based on Richland, so I can't make a direct comparison to Athlon 5350's iGPU based on stream processors and clockspeeds) The downside, of course, to FM2+ over AM1 is much more expensive motherboards if the user wants or needs Mini-ITX rather than uATX.

With respect to Haswell Celeron G1820 or G1840, unfortunately A4-7300 will be quite a bit weaker in CPU. So that is something to consider also.

 

[cbn]

I think the limit is the cost of the cheaper celeron + entry level card ($40 GT630), i whould say the 7400K is in, but i whould still consider the much cheaper 5400K and 6400K.

Agree with this, but honestly you're not going to get much more then IGP-level performance with that old Fermi-based card. Unless you'd chanced to snatch one of the rare GK208 rev.2's. Cheapest Celeron + GT640/R7-240 I'd say.

Regarding A6-7400K, I think that will face tough competition against Haswell Celeron and R7 240 video card.

Current lowest price for R7 240 is $45 (After rebate), free shipping. And a few days ago I noticed an R7 240 for $40 (After rebate) with free shipping. This compared to a best price ever I have seen for R7 240 which was $29.99 After rebate + small shipping fee --> http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?p=36687329#post36687329

Making the situation even worse for A6-7400K is that the Radeon R7 240 also comes with a free game (under Never settle forever Bronze Reward) as an added bonus.

 

[cbn]

A4-7300 at Amazon for $40 with free shipping:

http://www.amazon.com/AMD-A4-7300-Pr.../dp/B00MU00HGK

(Unfortunately it is out of stock, but at least we have confirmation on the price)

I do think it will have a tough time against Celeron G1820 ($43 with free shipping on Amazon--> http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Celeron-...keywords=G1830), but it probably is the most interesting option for AMD budget uATX IMO.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Regarding A6-7400K, I think that will face tough competition against Haswell Celeron and R7 240 video card.

I don't think there'll be much of a "competition" there...

The Celeron will destroy the 7400K in CPU performance, and the R7-240 has 320SP with dedicated memory.

About the sole (if you can call it that) advantage the 7400K has is that it supports AVX and AES-NI. Neither of which are relevant for gaming.

 

[cbn]

Here is the Newegg listing for A4-7300:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113378 ($49.99, free shipping)

It is listed as a Richland part, Not Kaveri.

http://skinflint.co.uk/amd-a4-7300-ad7300okhlbox-a1153218.html (Another listing with Richland listed, rather than Kaveri)

So I looked around I have noticed there is some differing info compared to the past.

Examples:

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A4-Series A4-7300.html (Early listing at CPU World of A4-7300 as Kaveri)

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/Bulldozer/AMD-A4-Series A4-7300 - AD7300OKA23HL - AD7300OKHLBOX.html (Later listing at CPU World of A4-7300 as Richland)

For $40 at Amazon it looks like AMD is giving us a Richland APU with the same iGPU specs as the A6-6400K, with a locked CPU that is still clocked quite fast at 3.8 GHz/4.0 GHz.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Here is the Newegg listing for A4-7300:
It is listed as a Richland part, Not Kaveri.

For $40 at Amazon it looks like AMD is giving us a Richland APU with the same iGPU specs as the A6-6400K, with a locked CPU that is still clocked quite fast at 3.8 GHz/4.0 GHz.

Richland, eh? Now I don't feel so bad, for picking up several A4-6300 for $37.99 ea., instead of waiting for the A4-7300.

 

[MeldarthX]

Last year christmas time I built new pc for the kids - went with 6600k apu; A88 fm2+ mb; 4 gigs of 2000 ram; 256 gig hd; mini tower case; dvd burner; with win 8; came total to 275 pounds......it runs everything smoothly 30 frames I've thrown at it.
Guildwars 2 - Gary's mod; LoL; Champions Online; Neverwinter; D3; WoT *everything high on WoT* all at 1440 by 900....I haven't even bothered to overclock it

I'm most likely going to upgrade that CPU and move that 6600k into new system to replace the other old system. They are hard to beat value wise.

For work I just put together mini itx system with 7600 apu; for 300 quid; that is vesa mountable; uses less that 100w; and plays the few things I've tested on it solidly at 1440 by 900.....*that's min resolution I consider playable* was running around on WoT at medium settings ave 33 frames,

I don't think people realize just how capable these apus are for building cheap gaming machines; specially for slightly lower resolutions. 7600 is freaking fast; and my engineers love the fact it will run solidworks well

 

[AtenRa]

Here are some iGPU specs for FM2 and FM2+:

A6-5400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 760 MHz
A4-5300: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 723 MHz

A6-6400K: 192 VLIW4 stream processors @ 800 MHz
A4-4000: 128 VLIW4 stream processors @ 724 MHz

A6-7400K: 256 GCN stream processors @ 756 Mhz
A4-7300: 192 GCN stream processors @ 514 MHz

If im not mistaken A4-4000 has 160 VLIW5 cores and only supports 1333MHz memory. I have one sitting somewhere, ill reinstall it in a mobo and confirm back(im 100% sure about the memory).