Best prosumer UPS strategy for me.

[Lemon law]

After having a series of Sata HHD fail fast, I had to wonder if a back up power supply able to regulate incoming house voltage might help. Even if I have zero evidence that my local monopoly power company on occasion browned me out. Because every time I have checked with a VOM, its always shown a solid 115 Volts. I do have a high quality power supply, able to deliver amply voltages on all rails, use various software to monitor temps,
volts , and such, but still, even if a UPS prevents complete system crashes after somewhat frequent momentary power failures, a sub $100.00 UPS is worth it.

I may be a devout atheist, but the one God I fear is Thor the Thunder god. Not because its a God, but because its a natural reality. And after losing 3 modem surge suppressor and one modem in one month after my computer was turned off, I now use the on off switch of modem surge suppressors to cut all wall power from the computer after I hear
Thor acting up. I also disconnect my phone line from my phone jack to prevent damage to the fax in my all in one printer. Its just become my new computer shut down procedure, regardless if I hear thunder or not. But am I being zapped by thunder and surges I can't see and will a fairly cheap sub $100.00 UPS save my butt?

And new equipment means new strategies, so please give me some understanding on how these UPS's are wired. What is my best strategy now.

Right now I bought a new cheap six outlet non surge protected extension cord I plug all my computer power into, its got enough outlets to plug my computer, my monitor, my zip drive, my computer speakers, and my printer into. With the joker being the zip drive and the printer are almost always in the powered off State. That plugs into the one of the four battery, surge, and noise protected outlets of my UPS which will remain plugged into my wall outlet 24/7/365. Thunderstorm raging or not. Meanwhile I can cut all power to the computer by using the on off switch of the UPS.

Or should I reverse the UPS and non surge suppressed extension cord? Plug it into the wall power, and use its on off switch to cut on power to the UPS after I shut down my computer? Will that latter procedure damage the UPS battery or better protect it as I replug just the monitor and the computer into battery protected outlets.? And leave just the sound card and zip drive non battery protected?

And as a side condition its my understanding that a surge protected multi outlet extension cord in series with another surge protected device equals no surge protection. I do not know if that is true or not.

But can anyone help me understand what is best and how these damn things work.

 

[westom]

After having a series of Sata HHD fail fast, I had to wonder if a back up power supply able to regulate incoming house voltage might help. ... And after losing 3 modem surge suppressor and one modem in one month after my computer was turned off, I now use the on off switch of modem surge suppressors to cut all wall power from the computer after I hear

You will discover how little you actually knew. And how many popular myths were outright lies.

For example, let's start with the UPS. It connects AC mains directly to your electronics. Where is this protection or regulation? Hyped in myths. Virtually non-existent if you read UPS's numeric specs. A UPS typically does one useful function. To provide temporary and dirty power during a blackout. It does not do any hardware protection. And, in battery backup mode, outputs some of the dirtiest power an appliance may see.

How dirty? Do not power small electric motors or power strip protectors from that UPS. Those might suffer damage due to UPS power from batteries. But that same power is ideal perfect for every electronic device. Why? Because electronics already contain robust protection that makes a 'dirty' UPS output irrelevant.

How dirty? This 120 volt UPS outputs 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts. That is perfectly ideal power to all 120 volt electronics. And the UPS manufacturer calls that a sine wave.

Well, they did not lie. From high school math, you will recall that square waves and other repetitive waveforms are nothing more than sums of sine waves. So, did you read a sales brochure that called it a sine wave? Or did you ignore everything but the hard specification numbers?

How to have same surge protection. Connect electronics directly to a wall receptacle. Connect the UPS to any other receptacle on the same circuit. You have not changed the protection circuit. You have only removed battery backup from electronics.

Now, let's move on to why items suffer surge damage. Surges seek earth ground. Either that current finds earth before entering the building. Or that current is inside and hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Nothing - did I say not one item - will avert, stop, or block that hunt. Once energy is permitted inside, it will find earth. Only you make that choice. Either every wire in every incoming cable connects short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground. Or that hunt occurs inside your building. No plug-in protector or UPS claims to protect from the typically destructive surge. But again, read the manufacturer numeric specs. Where does it list protection from each type of surge?

They know so many will believe a lie because it was stated subjectively. What did the UPS manufacturer call my 200 volt square wave? Some kind of sine wave. They just forgot to include numbers. That is even how so many *knew* in the 1950s and 60s that you smoke cigarettes to get healthier.

This is only enough for you to start asking some relevant questions. Since most of it is new, then even during the third reread, you will still be seeing things you did not see in the first read. See that question that any and every honest answer always discusses? Where does energy dissipate? I am expecting you to ask lots of questions based in facts, hearsay, and items already inside or damaged in your house.

Meanwhile, learn a fundamental soundbyte based in over 100 years of well proven science. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its single point earth ground.

 

[Lemon law]

Well all response are welcome Weston, but you have told me exactly nothing.

Thor exists, Thor can zap me with a zillion volts, now how do I protect myself?

Point granted, any UPS is less than perfect, but having no UPS may be worse in the real world. Which is it?

 

[ViviTheMage]

I have this badboy :

http://www.officemax.com/catalog/sku...questid=199877


You can get them cheaper elsewhere, I got mine for $120~

that can power my server - E8400/8GB memory/6 HDD's/2 monitors/cable modem for about 45~ minutes on battery alone.

Westom answered the last part of your question ... how do these damn things work....but kind of went into a trance it looks like ... and kept typing.

 

[SamurAchzar]

westom, how does this theory of yours works with an on-line UPS? They constantly feed the equipment from the battery, using the mains to charge it. But there's normally (unless the battery fails) any connection between the mains and the UPS. I don't know why you'd think it's dirty power either - it's very easy to generate good power from a battery.

Sorry LL I can't help with the surge protection, never had issues with these. I'm running two APC SmartUPS 1500VA between my gear, although I have an enterprise grade 2U 3000VA on-line UPS laying around here that I should hook up some time.
I have 3 of these APCs overall: One arrived DOA, replaced; All three had battery issues after 2 years, replaced; Of the replaced, again one DOA. So overall I bought 3 units, and had 5 replacements. At least their warranty is good, I guess. I expected more from a seemingly reputable company...

 

[westom]

... but you have told me exactly nothing.
Thor exists, Thor can zap me with a zillion volts, now how do I protect myself?

Point granted, any UPS is less than perfect, but having no UPS may be worse in the real world. Which is it?

Provided was more than enough to ask hard questions. Not speculation about a UPS that claims near-zero protection. UPS protection is equivalent to nothing. That previous post that should have been read at least three times. Said exactly where effective protection is located. Repeated here (because you did not get it) is another reason why you know a UPS is virtually zero protection. Power a UPS from a different receptacle on the same circuit. Electrically no change in the surge protection circuit.

How to know a UPS does near zero protection. Read UPS numeric specs. Apparently you did not read three times as so strongly recommended. Otherwise you would be doing that reading - and posting relevant numbers here. Numbers from ViviTheMage will be discussed.

Your telco's switching computer is connected to overhead wires all over town. A CO suffers maybe 100 surges with each thunderstorm. So how often is your town without phone service for four days while they replace their computer? Or does your town disconnect all phone service with each approaching thunderstorm to protect their computer?

Telcos throughout the world suffer direct lightning strikes without damage. Have been doing so for over 100 years. Something was known for that long was summarized in that previous post. You still don't get it? A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Defined was ineffective protection - something inside a building that must magically make surge energy disappear. Or you earth a surge before it can enter the building. Those options provide no facts? Do not inspire even one curious question? Maybe go outside to inspect your single point earth ground?

Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Effective protector, that must remain functional even after a direct lightning, cost about $1 per protected appliance. A protector is only as effective as its single point earth ground. At what point does a fact get repeated enough so that a next question is obvious?

BTW, a zillion volts only exists where myths and lies are promoted. Lightning is not measured in volts. Lightning - a current source (as described in a reply to SamurAchzar) - is measured in amperes. More numbers. If your UPS does anything more than near-zero protection, well, where are the numbers?

 

[westom]

westom, how does this theory of yours works with an on-line UPS? ... it's very easy to generate good power from a battery.

Very expensive to convert a 12 volt battery to 'clean' AC power. That on-line UPS is $500+ and higher.

Please explain how your tiny battery stops what three miles of sky could not? It doesn't. Destructive surges are a current source. From a first semester EE circuit course; battery is electrically equivalent to a short circuit - ie a wire. How does a short circuit stop or absorb a surge? It doesn't. And does not claim to.

How does a battery absorb a surge that is hundreds of thousands of joules? And do so in microseconds? It doesn't. And does not claim to. Asked previously - where are manufacturer spec numbers for that claim? None exist. That claim is classic hearsay.

As described earlier, a surge is energy inside and destructively hunting for earth ground. Let's say that surge enters on the hot (black) wire. Surge is an electric current. That means a surge is everywhere, simultaneously, in a path from the cloud to earth (a fundamental definition of electric current). A path that exists because a surge hunts for and must connect to earth. Nothing stops that connection. That current blows through a UPS power supply. Also past or through the battery. Also conducting through battery's inverter (also destroying that). Out of the invert and through an adjacent computer destructively to earth.

Where does a battery stop or absorb that energy? Well proven science was understood in the 1800s. Originally demonstrated by Franklin in 1752.

So again, where is that UPS spec number that claims protection? Spec numbers not provided for one simple reason. UPS specs that claim protection from each type of surge do not exist.

Second, how does that UPS (or its battery) magically stop what three miles of sky could not?

And third, a soundbyte that creates damning questions. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. How does that UPS absorb hundreds of thousands of joules in microseconds? Well ViviTheMage posted numbers for his 'badboy'. Rated to absorb 140 joules and never more than 280. Near-zero protection - just enough above zero so that retail propaganda can hype 100% protection. How does his UPS absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? His answer to the third question: it claims virtually no protection.

One useful UPS function: to provide temporary power during a blackout.

A reply must always answer this fourth question. Where does energy dissipate? Bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which that UPS does not have and will not discuss. The concept is quite simple, well proven in science, and found in every facility that can never suffer damage even from direct lightning strikes - such as munitions dumps.

A plug-in UPS is made as cheap as possible. Explains its 3 year life expectancy, its 'dirtiest' power when in battery backup mode, and near-zero numbers for surge protection. UPS provides temporary power to protect unsaved data.

 

[john3850]

Thor the Thunder god will still zap your pc with a ups when lighting gets close.
The ups is cool for backup and lost data.
I had few poor or loose native sata connectors do to the push on style.
Put a heavy load on in your house ac etc. then check for 115 volts at busy load times.
Check your outlets for any sign of voltage between neutral and ground.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I didn't claim anything regarding lighting protection, simply because I know next to nothing about that nor was this the reason I purchased a UPS. Now an on-line UPS does help again grid surges and avoids the nasty switching a normal UPS does in similar conditions, which surely doesn't help equipment.

 

[twinrider1]

Three times. Three times. Three times. Do NOT read Westom's post three times. He'll show up on your doorstep like Beetlejuice.

All he is saying is UPS and a surge protector handle two different functions, neither of which are protection against lightning strikes. They're still useful, just don't expect them to keep Thor at bay.

And that's Thor, God of Thunder! Calling him Thor the Thunder God sounds wimpy and only invites trouble.

 

[pugh]

Three times. Three times. Three times. Do NOT read Westom's post three times. He'll show up on your doorstep like Beetlejuice.

All he is saying is UPS and a surge protector handle two different functions, neither of which are protection against lightning strikes. They're still useful, just don't expect them to keep Thor at bay.

And that's Thor, God of Thunder! Calling him Thor the Thunder God sounds wimpy and only invites trouble.

Thanks for condensed version. His long winded books are too much this early in the a.m.

 

[westom]

Now an on-line UPS does help again grid surges and avoids the nasty switching a normal UPS does in similar conditions, which surely doesn't help equipment.

Lightning is an electrical current similar to a transient created by the grid. Both do damage by hunting, destructively, for earth ground. Where are UPS numbers that claim any protection? Not provided. UPS protection is invented only by advertising and hearsay. How do 280 joules protect from grid transients. No problem. Retail advertising is always honest.

Surges earthed before entering a building do not overwhelm protection already inside every appliance. Surges permitted to hunt inside will select paths to earth, destructively via appliances. Including that 'badboy' whose near-zero 140 or 280 joules will magically vaporize lightning and grid generated transients.

Where does energy dissipate? Ignored. Advertising encourages you to avoid damning questions. And so the OP still has no answer. Irrelevant questions and naive accusations mean no answers.

Now numbers. More facts so that one might ask a useful question. Even before an IBM PC existed, 120 volt electronics withstood 600 volt transients without damage. Today's appliances are even more robust. For example, Intel ATX standards define thousands of volts without damage. Protection superior to what that UPS claims.

Where does energy dissipate? You admit to no knowledge. Then preach to an engineer with decades of experience that you know better? And still never once ask how surge protection is done anywhere that damage cannot happen. $1 per ... and still you never ask. Well, that is the point. Those who never want to learn will never ask to learn. Will instead preach junk science – such as that UPS.

Defined was a critically important fact – single point earth ground? Do you know what that is? When do you ask even that simplest question?

Simple layman concepts that even Franklin demonstrated in 1752. Instead you claim to know better due to advertising?

So easy is to ask relevant questions. Using layman’s knowledge to learn from those soundbytes. To learn how protection from all surges (even lesser grid surges) for tens or 100 times less money. Protection is always about what? In one ear and out the other? Why is this so difficult? Because advertising entrenches so many who are told how to think; who never ask damning questions. Who know a UPS must do something because advertising says so. Where does energy dissipate? Why is reality so hard to learn?

 

[Meghan54]

Thanks for condensed version. His long winded books are too much this early in the a.m.

Not to mention he's full of elephant dung.

 

[westom]

l he is saying is UPS and a surge protector handle two different functions, neither of which are protection against lightning strikes. They're still useful, just don't expect them to keep Thor at bay.

He never said any of that. UPS claims no protection from any surges. Near zero. None. You would have known that by simply reading manufacturer spec numbers. Is learning that advertising lies that difficult?

Protectors exist for protection from every type of surge. But protectors (adjacent to appliances) can sometimes make surge damage easier.

And again ignored: Where does energy dissipate? You did not read what was posted. You read what you wanted to read. You posted illusions based in advertising.

An informed homeowner spends about $1 per appliance for one protector for every type of surge. That was posted with numbers. Due to retail advertising, twinrider1 did not even see that fact. Numbers - what makes eyes glaze once advertising has ordered what to think and what to deny. Where does energy dissipate? Apparently that question is too hard - must be ignored - if educated by retail advertising.

We have a problem in America. The younger generation cannot learn even simplest facts. The most naive among us will do as Meghan54 does. Post cheapshots and insults because reality contradicts what was taught by advertising. Also says why Saddam had WMDs, and why the Silicon Valley now hires over 60% of new employees from India and China. Finding Americans who can learn from facts and numbers - or read what is posted - is too hard. So Meghan54 does what the least educated so. Post cheapshot insults. Then the most ignorant need not admit to being so easily scammed. Meanwhile, cheapshots get other to believe those accusations. Also why Saddam had WMDs.

Or one could ask simple questions to learn how surge protection was done even 100 years ago. Oh. That means learning numbers. Or asking where energy dissipates. Too hard. I setup the experiment. Those most easily brainwashed by advertising then post insults.

Only the educated will ask damning questions such as where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Or why does every facility that never suffers surge damage always install a single point earth ground. But that means one must learn what a single point earth ground is. The most brainwashed - educated by advertising - cannot even ask that simple question. The answer might be too hard.

Thank you Meghan54 for demonstrating why so many jobs are now going overseas. And why OECD numbers say Americans are now some of the least educated.

 

[Modelworks]

Here is what I use for my own setups. I worked as an EE for over 15 years and also have a lot of Ham radio friends and for our home electronics this is the setup.

Check the homes ground connections:
Locate the homes ground connection. NEC requires it to be at the point that the power line feeder from the utility connects to the home, usually the meter. The wire should be as short as possible and be connected to a rod driven into the ground at least 4ft. Some places require two rods driven into the ground at 4ft with the rods 1ft apart. The connecting wire should have as few bends in it as possible and no sharp bends. Sharp bends allow a serious surge to jump off the wire to a closer ground and not follow the intended path which can start fires.

If your ground is connected to a water pipe inspect that connection carefully. They tend to loosen with the heating and cooling of the pipe . It also can be that the pipe has non metal fittings in it which break the ground connections. That is why in new construction the NEC has removed water pipes as a point for grounds.

If the power lines connect via overhead lines vs buried , check that the masthead the part that extends above the meter into the air where the line connects does not have anything else attached to it. Some telephone and cable companies like to use these for holding up their lines and that is illegal, call up the company and have them fix it asap.

Next add a whole house surge protector. They install before the power enters the home.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053

If you have cable or satellite or OTA outside then add a surge protector for them as well.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053

Both of those devices total $100 and will do more to guard against surges than anything else you can add internally. The idea is to stop or lessen the surge before it enters the home. Once the surge reaches the breaker panel it is like putting on band aids trying to prevent it from damaging everything plugged in. Look at your home as an island and anything that connects to it that contains metal, wires, pipes, etc as a possible surge point.

Next item UPS.
--------------
The UPS I like are online dual conversion. Your equipment connected to them never runs from the wall outlet. Internally they have the batteries that are charged off the wall outlet. A second item the inverter takes power from the batteries and generates the pure AC that your equipment uses 24/7 . In the event of a surge the worst that happens is the charger inside the UPS is knocked out. Your equipment continues to run until the batteries run out.

The downside of these is the cost. They start at around $400. When buying one think of it as a long term investment. Most of these are designed for external battery use with a jack on the rear for battery boxes. You can add as much run time as you want. They are also built very well. The one I have is going on 10 years old.

The cheaper , under $200 models are AVR offline models. AVR works by switching the incoming power through different circuits to try to match what the output voltage should be. They are only effective at limited input ranges, usually 80-160VAC. Anything out of range causes the UPS to switch to batteries. The output from these units is not pure sine wave, it is a stepped sine wave, which looks like this:

A real sine wave looks like this:

Most equipment doesn't care which it is, but some may buzz or make odd noises when using the stepped version. It doesn't hurt the equipment, it is just annoying.

Check the grounding of the home and get a decent ups and you shouldn't have any problems. I have never had anything harmed by a surge and neither have anyone else in the local ham group following this.


For UPS if you are okay with refurbished you can get some really good deals at place like this one that refurb ups that are off corporate leases. Some of these ups cost a couple thousand $ when new.
http://www.upsforless.com/

 

[Throckmorton]

Long story short: Go to Best Buy, Office Max, Home Depot, or wherever and buy a surge protector from a known brand name

 

[Blain]

Here is what I use for my own setups. I worked as an EE for over 15 years and also have a lot of Ham radio friends and for our home electronics this is the setup.

Check the homes ground connections:
Locate the homes ground connection. NEC requires it to be at the point that the power line feeder from the utility connects to the home, usually the meter. The wire should be as short as possible and be connected to a rod driven into the ground at least 4ft. Some places require two rods driven into the ground at 4ft with the rods 1ft apart. The connecting wire should have as few bends in it as possible and no sharp bends. Sharp bends allow a serious surge to jump off the wire to a closer ground and not follow the intended path which can start fires.

If your ground is connected to a water pipe inspect that connection carefully. They tend to loosen with the heating and cooling of the pipe . It also can be that the pipe has non metal fittings in it which break the ground connections. That is why in new construction the NEC has removed water pipes as a point for grounds.

If the power lines connect via overhead lines vs buried , check that the masthead the part that extends above the meter into the air where the line connects does not have anything else attached to it. Some telephone and cable companies like to use these for holding up their lines and that is illegal, call up the company and have them fix it asap.

Next add a whole house surge protector. They install before the power enters the home.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053

If you have cable or satellite or OTA outside then add a surge protector for them as well.
http://www.homedepot.com/Electrical-...atalogId=10053

Both of those devices total $100 and will do more to guard against surges than anything else you can add internally. The idea is to stop or lessen the surge before it enters the home. Once the surge reaches the breaker panel it is like putting on band aids trying to prevent it from damaging everything plugged in. Look at your home as an island and anything that connects to it that contains metal, wires, pipes, etc as a possible surge point.

Next item UPS.
--------------
The UPS I like are online dual conversion. Your equipment connected to them never runs from the wall outlet. Internally they have the batteries that are charged off the wall outlet. A second item the inverter takes power from the batteries and generates the pure AC that your equipment uses 24/7 . In the event of a surge the worst that happens is the charger inside the UPS is knocked out. Your equipment continues to run until the batteries run out.

The downside of these is the cost. They start at around $400. When buying one think of it as a long term investment. Most of these are designed for external battery use with a jack on the rear for battery boxes. You can add as much run time as you want. They are also built very well. The one I have is going on 10 years old.

The cheaper , under $200 models are AVR offline models. AVR works by switching the incoming power through different circuits to try to match what the output voltage should be. They are only effective at limited input ranges, usually 80-160VAC. Anything out of range causes the UPS to switch to batteries. The output from these units is not pure sine wave, it is a stepped sine wave, which looks like this:

A real sine wave looks like this:

Most equipment doesn't care which it is, but some may buzz or make odd noises when using the stepped version. It doesn't hurt the equipment, it is just annoying.

Check the grounding of the home and get a decent ups and you shouldn't have any problems. I have never had anything harmed by a surge and neither have anyone else in the local ham group following this.


For UPS if you are okay with refurbished you can get some really good deals at place like this one that refurb ups that are off corporate leases. Some of these ups cost a couple thousand $ when new.
http://www.upsforless.com/

I installed a Delta LA-302R Surge Arrestor and CA-302R Surge Capacitor in my breaker box.
No problems so far.

 

[westom]

I installed a Delta LA-302R Surge Arrestor and CA-302R Surge Capacitor in my breaker box.
No problems so far.

So where does energy dissipate? If your Delta connected short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth ground, then a surge dissipates harmlessly outside. But the Delta does not do protection. What is the most critical component in every protection system? Single point earth ground. What makes that Delta so effective. And is not found with any plug-in solutions.

Water pipes do not provide sufficient earthing. Ground rods four foot long are woefully too short. Earthing must both meet and exceed post 1990 National Electrical code. That means eight or ten foot ground rods. And a quarter inch bare copper wire from the breaker box ('less than 10 feet') to those ground rods. With no sharp wire bends. With a ground wire not inside metallic conduit. That ground wire routed separate from all other non-ground wires.

No protector does protection. Either a protector connects tens of thousands of amps (and lesser surges) harmlessly to earth. Or protection is ineffective (miracle plug-in solutions). Too many people only credit what is seen. Earth ground - what nobody can see - does the actual protection.

Kudos for installing a properly sized protector to connect even direct lightning strikes to earth. You now have protection superior to a house even with 100 power strip and UPS protectors.

Above is only 'secondary' protection. Every protection layer is defined by the only component that does protection - earth ground. Also inspect your 'primary' protection layer installed by the utility. A picture of what to inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Every wire in every incoming cable must also connect to that same earth ground. All telephone wires already have a 'whole house' protector installed for free. But again, a protector does not do protection. Protection is provided only by what you are responsible for installing and maintaining. An NID box contains a 'whole house' protector. This box also must connect short (ie 'less than ten feet') to the same earth ground. A picture of what that box might look like; what to inspect:
http://www.citynet.net/supportdp.cfm?article=8

In every case, a protector is not protection. Most forget what does protection because it is not observable. You have the only type protector that is effective. What is installed everywhere when damage is not an option.

Also inspect what makes that protector so effective. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

 

[Blain]

So where does energy dissipate? If your Delta connected short (ie 'less than 10 feet') to earth ground, then a surge dissipates harmlessly outside. But the Delta does not do protection. What is the most critical component in every protection system? Single point earth ground.

I do, in fact have an 8' grounding rod 4-5' from my breaker box.

 

[westom]

I do, in fact have an 8' grounding rod 4-5' from my breaker box.

Excellent. Now, no way exists to test effective protection. A first surge (one typically every seven years) will be the first test. If you have damage, then a first suspect to correct is insufficient grounding.

In best soil, one earth electrode is sufficient. In other soils (i.e. sandy), multiple grounds are necessary. In at least one location, the building had to be looped with an earthing wire due to problems created by nearby geology. This problem identified and eliminated when that building had only one 'whole house' protector connected short to earth. What is typically sufficient protection. Unusual geology had compromised the 'single point' aspect. Equipotential was only possible by encircling that building. Then no more surge damage.

And so an underlying concept that applies to all protection. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

 

[Lemon law]

To Weston,

To some extent I give you full credit for making this entire thread into a world record andand tech uphelpful thread.

Your thesis seems to boil down to the conention its all about our house ground and nothing more, so what the heck, lets all of us have no prtection against Thor? When in fact we can have the best ground in the world, but if Thor is in a full snit, he can eat your whole house and everything that is in it.

For the rest of us in the real world, its all about how the protect our computers against the damages caused by less than totally reliable wall power, regardless if caused by Thor is not.

And if you read, read reread, my OP post four or more times, maybe you would realize you have done nothing to answer any of my real world questions. After all, fluctionations
in wall power from our power companies are a fact of life of life, regardless if caused by Thor or not.

Our wall power is subject to surges, brownout, and many millisecond switching delays that can crash a computer. Not only is such a say 500 Millisecond switching dealy annoying when it cause a total lack of power and a subsequent computer reboot, the best house ground in the world does nothing to prevent it.

That is why I decided to buy a elcheapie triplite 500ou UPS, maybe not the equal of $1000 dollar better UPS's, but it least it gives me some voltage regulation, I may not suffer a computer crash given more momentary local power companty switching, I may lose some surge suppression losses compared to my previous strategy of a few thousand rated Joules in a prosumer surge supprresor only, and even if the power outage lasts some minutes, I can maybe have the time to shut down my computer.

But now we have two new jokers inn the deck given the fact I have to worry about the life of my UPS batteries.

1. Can I safely protect my computer in the shut down state against Thor by simply using the on off switch in my UPS? Or alternately should I cut all wall power from the UPS even if it causes the UPS battery to deplete and then be recharged when I start up again?

In terms of my phone line going into any surge suppressor, I already know the answer. As long as there is no complte circuit on the other side of the surge suppressor, I have no woory about surge damge.

 

[westom]

1. Can I safely protect my computer in the shut down state against Thor by simply using the on off switch in my UPS? Or alternately should I cut all wall power from the UPS even if it causes the UPS battery to deplete and then be recharged when I start up again?

You had Sata HD failures. UPS does nothing - absolutely nothing - to avert that damage.

Early 20th Century Ham radio operators would disconnect their antenna wires. Even put the leads inside a mason jar. And still suffer damage. So how does a few millimeter separations in a power switch protect from surges? It doesn't. If that surge is inside, then even conductive materials such as wood can cause problems. Once a surge is inside, it will go hunting. No millimeter gap in a power switch will stop that hunt.

Even those Ham radio operators 100 years ago learned about the only protection from Thor damage. They connected antenna leads to earth ground. Then all damage stopped.

Apparently you somehow feel power fluctuations cause hardware damage. Yes, to motorized appliances. And not to electronic appliances. Because motorized appliances are so easily harmed by voltage variations, then utilities do not let power vary significantly. I read your post. Power fluctuations were not discussed because a power supply inside every computer must make all major fluctuations irrelevant - as was posted. Major voltage fluctuations do not happen so that a refrigerator and furnace are unharmed.

Only purpose of that UPS - to protect data. It does nothing to protect Sata HDs.

You also asked how to connect items in series. That also was answered in the first post. Apparently you ignored it. When do electronics see 'dirtiest' power? That does not come from AC mains.

Also addressed was an empty worry about 115 volts and voltage variations. Incandescent light bulbs can dim to 50% intensity. That is more than sufficient voltage for any computer or other electronics. Severe voltage variations are harmful to electric motors. And not harmful to electronics. You worried about voltage variations in paragraphs that discussed hardware damage. Demonstrated with so many examples and numbers - voltage variations do not harm electronics.

The serious hardware threat is routinely solved (even 100 years ago) by single point earth ground. The least expensive solution is also the best. Your hardware worries are fiction mostly promoted by hearsay. Facilities that must never suffer damage do not use power strip protectors and routinely earth one 'whole house' protector. For example, that is how hardware is protected in munitions dumps. You can have equivalent protection for about $1 per.

You asked if a UPS will "save my butt". Depending on a human to disconnect when storms approach is unreliable protection. And still superior to virtually zero protection provided by any adjacent UPS.

You asked for "what is best and how these damn things work". Hardware protection. The answer is routine and well understood everywhere that damage cannot happen. And costs about $1 per protected appliances. One and only one 'whole house' protector connected within feet of single point earth ground. No other honest answer exists. A tidal wave of facts and numbers that only exist where people live in well proven reality.

 

[tynopik]

what power supply are you using in your computer

 

[dajeepster]

now i know were to come to see "Nerd Fights"..