Best PC to TV video out option

[AubreyJr]

Hello Anandtech Forum,
It's been awhile since I've last posted, but I still search for the same answers. What are the best PC to TV video out options currently available? I originally purchased a Radeon 64 hoping to satisfy the family's desire to game and surf in the living room on a TV. Everyone posting seems to know that is not a solution. Many available cards seem to handle DVD output very well, but that is not my major interest since I already own a DVD player. I've heard discussions of scan converters and would like more info. I recently saw a laptop playing a DVD over a Mitsubishi projector in widescreen. I was impressed with the image quality of a 3' x 12' display cast on an office wall. Unlike my TV, text was very legable from the desktop. In my original posts, I learned about VGA to NTSC conversion and monitor vs TV resolution. There does not seem to be a video card on the market that can perform the conversion well enough to surf on a TV. If so, how do console systems (Xbox, PS2) perform the conversion so well? All advice and opinions are welcome.

 

[Workin']

This is an EXCELLENT "consumer grade" scan converter. At 1024x768 screen resolution, text is nicely legible on a big-screen TV. It can be had for about $180. We use one in our office for small-group presentations instead of using a projector.

 

[garyboz]

I have a TView gold and it rocks.

 

[Dunjon]

Personally I don't know any Tv out solutions that show text well. The problem is that the "consumer" tvs don't have the dot pitch that the monitors have, even at 640x 480. That display that you saw with the laptop was on a device that costs atleast $1500 or more. and had a built in Vga port. Its basically a Projection Vga monitor. For that kinda money(and a little shopping) you can get an HDTV that might come with tv out. As far as the consoles go, they look good to you cause you are used to looking at them that way. They look even better on a monitor. They do not use the same standard text size that you are used to typing with on a computer. Futhermore, even thought these games claim good graphics they are still shown in low resolution so they can be shown on a tv. Thats why the PS2 games are cursed with the "jaggies". The Xbox probably displays in 2xAntiAliasing due to the Geforce chip and higher cpu speeds which is why it looks better in my opinion.

One thing you could try is to go into you display properties and then appearances and change your desktop font size. I have often thought that PC game companies should program a "tv mode" in their options just so that it will look better on a tv.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[AubreyJr]

Workin and GaryBoz suggest the TView Gold scan converter as a PC to TV solution. Thank you. I assume this device displays text well. Have either of you viewed text or surfed with the TView Gold. If you guys would be willing to share a little more info, I might be willing to pick one up. I tested one scan converter before (can't remember the name at the moment) and was not impressed. I have a 27" Zenith PIP that displays 400 lines of horizontal resolution. Your TVs are possibly much better than mine.

Dunjun it appears you and I both have not seen text converted well. If PC game companies programed a "TV" mode as an option, my problem would definitely be resolved. Thanks for your input. It's still hard to believe no complete solution exists at this time. When I first installed my Radeon, I went to display properties/appearances and tried many font combinations to improve output. I was very disappointed with the quality of the display no matter what font combination I used. My expectations of VGA conversion using a Radeon where much higher than the recieved results. Maybe I've uncovered where I could possibly make my $$million. Thanks again for your two cents.

 

[RobsTV]

Workin and GaryBoz are correct. Without a doubt, the TView Gold is the best choice. (find on e8ay for around $100).
But, while it is the best choice, and is better than any built in video cards TV out, text will still not be great.
I use mine on a 53" Sony, and it does the job. Internet browsing works fairly well.
Most smaller single tube sets would look better. Zenith's are one of the worst sets due to crap CRT's.
If you've ever seen WebTV displayed on a TV, then you've seen about how good the text looks. Nothing like a PC's, but acceptable.
If the TView gold is not acceptable to you, nothing will be.

Gaming is where they really show there stuff.
I am able to run GranPrix III at 1280x1024 @ 85hz on both PC monitor and bigscreen at the same time.
Excellent quality for gaming, graphical purposes, and DVD playback.
That was my primary DVD playback source for a while, and after getting a normal TV top DVD player, the picture
quality is nearly identical. It is just as good for converting DVD's from PC to TV as a normal TV top DVD player.

 

[garyboz]

Text will always look bad on a tv in relation to a computer monitor. A computer monitor has a much higher resolution and refresh rate. TV's were NOT designed to display text. I have a computer hooked up to my 32' Sony VVega XBR with a TView Gold. My TV's pretty badass. I use it to watch divx movies, play games and as a monitor for selecting my mp3's to play on my stereo. It's really great for that. I've used Nvidia and ATI TV out and the TView is a lot better. However, I wouldn't try to use a TV to try to display text as it really wasn't designed to do that. I have set up internet access on the computer and you can surf the net but I never use it for that because it's just a lot better doing that on an actual computer monitor. It works ok if you jack up the font sizes.

The reason the Mitsu Projection setup looked so good was that it was not being displayed on a TV. It was being displayed on a wall. The wall isn't subject to the inherent resolution and refresh rates that the TV is. Of course that might have been a pretty badass wall you were looking at. ; )

The Projector setup is a lot more expensive than the Tview. Get the Gold version it has much better resolution and refresh rates.

Tview: $179
Mitsu Projector: $2,000-$4,000
Badass Wall: Priceless

 

[Dolf]

You guys just answered some of the questions I asked in another thread, so if you don't mind I'll jump in here and ask some of the questions I still have. Hope I'm not butting in.
I'm considering putting together a system for TV recording, kinda like a homemade tivo, but have had no experience with a card with vivo. I have a few questions to clarify what I think I understand.
1.Would recordings on hard drive lose any significant picture quality?
2.Would Windows Movie Maker be sufficient for recording, since it's already part of Windows or would I need other software.
3.Sounds like I should go with Tview for V/O, what card would you recommend for input?

Badass Wall: Priceless ...I love it!

-------------------------
I know a helluva lot about almost everything. I just don't understand everything I know!

 

[garyboz]

Do yourself a favor and just get a TiVo. I had an extra computer lying around, had a TV tuner for it and was considering doing the same thing. When you start to look into the specs you need to do realtime video encoding you'll find you need to spend a lot of money on hardware. You'll need to buy really big hard drives, 80+ Gig and should have at least a 1 Gig of Processor and 256MB ram (or more like 512 or 768MB).

The picture will be degraded but if you have a faster machine you can get pretty good quality. But it's not really the digital recording that makes TiVo great. It's the scheduling. Do you know that Survivor is on Wed. next week? My TiVo does. You don't have to figure out when things are on. You can leave the house at any time and not have to worry if you have enough tape in your VCR, etc. Browsing through channels at 7:45 and notice that "Sorrority Surfer Babes" are on at 8:00, uh oh what about Friends? Well click record on Surfer Babes and the TiVo WILL FIND OTHER TIMES THAT THIS SHOW IS ON. Turns out that Surfer Babes are on at 3:30 AM, now I can watch Friends and Surfer Babes! Woohoo!

What you need is a Sat Dish. There is a special deal for the DirecTV Recievers with TiVo for $99 at Circuit City.

The TiVo is the greatest thing I've ever bought.

 

[Workin']

We use our TView Gold with a 32" Sony WEGA. Text looks perfectly acceptable - but not perfect - but much better than any built in graphics card TV-out.

 

[Stevem627]

Maybe I haven't read this close enough, but is your issue with your video card really or possibly whatever you are using on the PC as a TV tuner? I think you need to buy a pretty expensinve tuner to get a good picture for TV...especially when output. I have a Radeon 8500 and TV output is very good but never the quality of a TV tuner/TV.

 

[AubreyJr]

Stevem627, my issue is with VGA to NTSC conversion. Unless you are reading one of the other questions posted within this thread, several people have suggested the best option to get the best quality PC to TV display would be a TView Gold scan converter. I have a Radeon 64 which was at the time of purchase rated the best video card for output to TV. The biggest problem with every suggested option would be text quality displayed on a TV. What TV tuners are you suggesting and why? How well does your Radeon 8500 display text on your TV? What TV do you have?

Based on the info I've read elswhere and recieved within this thread, I intend to purchase a high quality 32" or 35" TV (highest possible resolution) replacement for my 27" Zenith. I intend to test my Radeon 64 on it. I'm expecting gaming output to improve slightly if not greatly. I intend to purchase a TView Gold later to get the best quality text while surfing displayed on the new tube. Are you suggesting the Radeon 8500 is better than a scan converter? At one time, I was seriously contemplating replacing my Radeon 64 with a Radeon 8500 128 or GForce 4.

 

[Workin']

In my opinion the TView Gold is MUCH better than the Radeon 8500 (or ANY other video-card solution). It's likely your best solution unless you want to invest a lot of money (>>$1000) in pro-quality gear.

AubreyJr, I'm guessing you really aren't worried about a tuner, since the TV will have its own and you just want to view your PC display on TV for gaming, movies, and web surfing.

 

[AubreyJr]

Workin', what pro-quality gear would you suggest? Now that I have some inexpensive workable solutions cost is a factor. But before I was informed of the TView Gold, I would have been willing to spend a $grand or more for a solution. I would not have thought that to much for a long term solution to satisfy and increase my family's entertainment pleasure within my household. Hell, it will be fun for friends, neighbors and relatives too. I assume you are refering to a more expensive scan converter or projector. Even if I don't choose to purchase higher quality gear I'd love to be aware of what's on the market. Frankly, you've peaked my interest. Even though my new 35" will have it's own tuner I'm interested in your opinion of what stand alone tuners would offer to the scenario. I'm not worried about a tuner, but I'm also unaware of whether I should be. If a sepeate tuner would offer any benefit I'd like to know.

 

[Workin']

<< I assume you are refering to a more expensive scan converter or projector. >>

Exactly. I don't have any particular devices in mind - they're too expensive for me to even think about using I was very surprised at how well the Tview Gold performs. From what you have said so far and previous discussions we have had I'm pretty sure that it will meet your needs handily.

If you buy a good TV it will have a good tuner. Besides that, if you are spending all this money I'm guessing you probably won't even use a tuner - you probably have Cable or Satellite TV, a DVD player, VCR, and your PC, none of which would use a tuner anyway (except maybe if you have satellite and use a tuner for local stations). They would be connected to your TV's S-video or component video jacks, bypassing the set's tuner.

 

[garyboz]

It's not that text on a TV will look bad, it's that text on a TV will not look good. If you have a nice TV and use a TView Gold and crank up the font size and use full screen view in Internet Explorer (F11) it will be acceptable.

If spending serious money isn't an issue I've heard that some of the new digital TV's can accept a VGA input. (I could be making that up.) You'd have to go talk to a high end Stereo/TV store (not Best Buy or Circuit City) to find out if that's possible and how much that would cost.

A projector would probably run $1700- $4000. Check out CDW, it's mostly businesses that buy these things.