Best Integrated Graphics for Athlon, with AGP and DDR...?

[RedRonin]

Hi, All!

OK, I was thinking about starting to build small, quick and dirty PCs for sale to friends and family. I have been checking out lots of different budget motherboards, most of them AMD compatible, Socket A micro-ATX configuration. I was looking for a motherboard that was reasonably cheap, and could be bought bundled with a Duron 1300 CPU & Fan for under $100. I would like it to have the usual things, like LAN, AMR/CNR and built-in Audio, with Video capabilities as well. But I want it to be something that can still grow in the future. So I'd like it to have DDR memory capability, an AGP slot and two or three PCI slots too, for future upgrades.

True enough, the Biostar M7NCG is a great board, but the lowest price I've found for it is like $102. Not so bad, but that is basically the same as the price the upper end of lower priced competitors with just a $40 GeForce2 MX 440 card. I love the feature set and stability of nForce2, but I would be more impressed if the integrated graphics chipset were at least of GeForce3 Ti (that is, fully DirectX 8.1 compliant) level. In that case, it would be a complete no-brainer, I'd have no need to ask around. Maybe when nForce3 arrives...

So I figure if we are on the lowest of the low end anyway, I should find out what the "best of the worst" was, so to speak. The problem is that there don't seem to be very many professional reviews of these boards. As far as I can tell, there aren't any roundups of these low-end parts that directly compare the performance of their integrated video systems. It would be incredibly cool if some offered RCA Composite or S-Video TV-Out too, though I doubt that is likely...

Here are a few that I found:

- AOPEN MK77M II - $59 - VIA KM266, VIA 8235

- Biostar M7VKQ - $41 - Trident Blade 3D Video Integrated

- Biostar M7VIG Pro - $56 - S3 ProSavage 8 Video Integrated

- ECS K7SOM V5.2C - $54 - Embedded Graphics within SiS730D

- ECS K7VMM+ V5.X - $53 - S3 GRAPHICS Savage8

- GIGABYTE GA-7VKMLS - $44 - VIA ProSavageâ?¢ KM266 AGPset

- Shuttle MK35N - $52 - ???

Here are some that are a little higher priced:

- FIC AT31 - $64 - ATI IGP320 Chipset

- ECS L7SOM V3.0 - $65 - SiS315 GPU

- ECS K7S7AG GameUnion - $84 - Xabre 200 GPU (Built-In 64MB DDR RAM - not shared) [NO AGP SLOT]

I did find a resoundingly negative review of the FIC AT31, so that one is basically eliminated. The ECS K7S7AG does not include an AGP slot for some reason and is within $20 of the price for a Biostar M7NCG, so its no good either. I just included them for comparison's sake. I know there are versions of the ECS K7SEM that include a processor on board, but they cost the same as a better processor bundled with a K7SOM. So really, what I need is some frame of reference for the relative capabilities of the graphics chipsets of the remaining motherboards on the list. If you would like to suggest another option, please do. Thanks for your help!

Toyoniya Hiyaku, Noromuoy!

Red Ronin, The Cybernetic Samurai

 

[eklass]

how about an asus a7n266-vm ? cheap as hell when you bundle it with a cpu and save a few more bucks. plays RtCW and simcity4 pretty well for integrated geforce2 here at work

 

[AtomicDude512]

Where's the nForce and nForce2?

 

[RedRonin]

AtomicDude512 asked, "Where's the nForce and nForce2?"

Honestly, I forgot about nForce entirely... ;-) The cheapest nForce2 I could find was the aforementioned Biostar M7NCG now at a hair under $100. A good board, but a bundle with a Duron 1300 or comparable processor would generally be around $140-150. I'm looking more at the bundles that would include CPU, Fan/Cooler and Motherboard with a full feature set for around $90 or less. Like I said, I forgot about nForce "Version 1", as most online stores are only advertising their nForce2 wares. I wonder if the poll can be edited... Anyhow, I just need to know the relative weaknesses and strengths of the various integrated video chipsets, since the boards are rather close in other features. Can anyone help?

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin

[EDIT: OK I added "nForce Version 1" to the poll choices. Sorry for the prior mistake.]

 

[tenoc]

Congratulations on offering free life-time support to all your friends and family.

Don't worry about what to do in your spare time, there won't be any!

 

[bjamm2]

Originally posted by: eklass
how about an asus a7n266-vm ? cheap as hell when you bundle it with a cpu and save a few more bucks. plays RtCW and simcity4 pretty well for integrated geforce2 here at work

a second vote for that, if i were buying a cheap box that'd be the one i'd get.

Asus A7N266-VM AA (AMD Assured Version) NVIDIA nFORCE 220 Chipset 266/200MHz FSB Motherboard Micro ATX- Retail
Socket A AMD Duron, Athlon, and Athlon XP up to 2600+
nForce 220D: NVIDIA IGP-64 north bridge and NVIDIA MCP-D south bridge
FSB:266/200 MHz
2 DIMM sockets support max. 1GB unbuffered PC2100/1600 non-ECC RAM
Slots:3x PCI 1xAGP PRO 4x
Onboard LAN:10/100 Mbps
Integrated AC97and Dolby Digital 5.1 (AC-3) Encoder Audio
Integrated Nvidia Nforce GeFORCE2 Video.
2 onboard USB ports

71.99 shipped @ newegg, add the 1700 or 1800 CPU for 50-60 bucks , youve got a mobo/cpu for $120 with sound/video/lan/usb. Add some cheap DDR pc2100 memory for 45-50. complete barebone system for under $175

 

[bambam]

I had the same question but you beat me to it . Nice list . I'd like to see more comments about the ones on your list too .

 

[Cogtx]

RedR..I recently put together a Biostar M7VKQ with 1.3Duron (fan and hs included)...under $100...easy upgrade to wife's old system and she's is pretty happy with it. As long as your family members are not power user, the M7VKQ would be a prime choice IMHO....Trident Blade 3D Video Integrated graphics is nothing special on this board but does the job for a cheapy system...good luck...

 

[tcsenter]

VIA KM266 and VIA ProSavage 8 are the same thing, the ProSavage 8 is built-in to the KM266.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Nforce kicks the crap outta the IGP320 doesn't it? Are those votes just from fanATIcs?

 

[mechBgon]

A7N266-VM gets my vote. If the onboard video isn't sufficient, the only thing likely to be better is 1) an add-in card, or 2) nForce2 IGP.

I hope you intend to procure proper Windows licenses, or else use Linux etc? If Linux is the plan, I believe nForce or nForce2 are compatible.

 

[RedRonin]

Well I am already pretty much the "Lifetime Lifeline Techinical Support Services" guru for my friends & family. So I figure that if I am the guy that put their PCs together to begin with, at least I'd have a better handle on the problems they run into. Mostly it seems people just love getting the various versions of Gator, BonziBuddy, Kazaa and other ad bomb internet crap that burrows into the system registry and strangles their precious internet connections. If I can just get them to start downloading only "good" things.... Yeah, right.

As for Windows... You need licenses for that? ;-) Seriously though, it depends upon the budget of the intended client. I would certainly prefer to deliver a pristine Officially Licensed OEM Disc and Serial Number to each and every person whenever possible. Some would wonder if it were worth foregoing a new monitor for WinXP Pro though, I'm sure. I'd go with Linux, but come on - I'm talking about people who barely know how to use the mouse. Command line? They can't even type.

Essentially, for those who have an old PC with salvageable parts, I'd build them a PC. I would reuse the old case, unless it thoroughly sucked. In which case I'd pick up a cheap new ($27-35) case or refurbished one (~$20). If they are still on dial-up I'd reuse their PCI modem or grab a cheap AMR/CNR model for their new mainboard. The hard drive and floppy would naturally move on to the new machine, unless they were completely useless. For those who have no PC, I'd probably just pick up a complete unit from a local supplier.

But there might be some that have no PC, but are EXTREMELY limited in funds, with less than $300 available for hardware. Here is a sample of what I might put together for them, as a Dirt Poor solution:

o 27.00 - MIDDLE TOWER W/300W (PENTIUM 4 READY) ATX POWER SUPPLY 4x5.25" 2x3.5" 5x3.5" (hidden) W/ FRONT USB CONNECTOR & 80mm CASE FAN x 1
o 103.05 - BIOSTAR M7VKQ BUNDLE W/ COOLING FAN & (AMD DURON 1300(200MHZ); 16X64 128MB PC133; NO TESTING)
o 66.00 - WD 40.0GB 400EB EIDE ULTRA ATA/100 12MS 5400RPM 2MB BUFFER (Bare drive)
o 22.00 - LITE ON 52X CD ROM BLACK #LTN-526S (Bare drive w/audio cable)
o 15.90 - TEAC 1.44MB FLOPPY DRIVE-BLACK (Bare Drive)
o 12.00 - SMARTLINK 56K.V90 AMR MODEM RISER CARD
o 16.00 - CYBER ACOUSTICS CA-3000 3PC SUB WOOFER SPEAKER SYSTEM
o 9.00 - LABTEC INTERNET KEYBOARD
o 9.99 - LABTEC OPTICAL MOUSE 3-BTTN W/SCROLLING WHEEL PS2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
280.94

I'm still working on a Po As Hell solution, hence this thread. ;-)

Unta Glebin Gloutin Globin,

Red Ronin, The Cybernetic Samurai

 

[magomago]

I'd disagree with purchasing a burner or a floppy online...usually bestbuy/circuitcity have sales each week where a burner is19.99 whatnot.

And man you must be nice. I couldn't stand people who'd say i messed up their PC when they voluntarily put crap like gatorbuddy and various other spyware.

But if you are doing it for free and CONSISTENTLY that is a LOT of money they are saving so you also should get some kind of perks. If they come to you often for help, you got to them for other things just to balance it out. When they complain about it just remind them who is fixing their computer and they'll promptly be quiet or else they won't ask for help from you again and that is the key point.

 

[RedRonin]

Trust me, magomago, I hear what you're saying! What brought this up is that three systems in a row were dropped in my lap. All of them were based on the PC Chips M741LMRT motherboard. Ugh... A total and complete nightmare. Only one of the owners had all the documentation and drivers for the board, naturally that was the last of them. It was almost impossible to find any information about those pieces of crap. If not for the single Xcel2000 label on the chipset heatsink, I'd have had no hope of identifying the motherboards. If I didn't know better, I'd swear each of those PCs was on a pre-set time limit for self-destruction. No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get any of them working properly, assuming they ever did to begin with. I hope that by using more reputable parts from the get-go, perhaps they will be able to avoid most of their problems down the line.

Ultimately though, the common thread among those who have problems is their use of the internet. They are too cheap to get broadband, and don't realize how many trojan downloads are designed specifically to take advantage of dial-up connections. So especially when they browse popup laden porno sites in particular, they are continually installing crap that messes up everything about their web browsing. Then they wonder why the computer stops going online altogether.

The basic use systems they buy on their own quite simply cannot take the stress of their daily abuse. I would hope that maybe, just maybe, they won't be able to put a newer PC in a headlock and make it cry uncle. I could be wrong though...

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin

 

[yodayoda]

Originally posted by: eklass
how about an asus a7n266-vm ? cheap as hell when you bundle it with a cpu and save a few more bucks. plays RtCW and simcity4 pretty well for integrated geforce2 here at work

another vote for this badboy. integrators dream: good sound, good video, good build quality, good price.

 

[RedRonin]

OK, I must admit, the ASUS A7N266-VM looks pretty nice! Thanks to those who pointed it out to me. One question though, how well is the 5.1 audio accomplished? You see of all the features that are built in, the audio capabilities of this board seem to stand out, making it worth the handful of bucks more than others. I just wonder if it uses an optional dongle connector or the pink, green and blue audio connectors to output the 5.1 signal. None of the motherboards I've seen thus far seem to include a TV-Out option. That would be especially cool, but I can get that on a $40 SiS AG315T, GeForce4 MX or RADEON VE AGP card if needed.

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin

 

[Boogak]

Originally posted by: RedRonin
OK, I must admit, the ASUS A7N266-VM looks pretty nice! Thanks to those who pointed it out to me. One question though, how well is the 5.1 audio accomplished? You see of all the features that are built in, the audio capabilities of this board seem to stand out, making it worth the handful of bucks more than others. I just wonder if it uses an optional dongle connector or the pink, green and blue audio connectors to output the 5.1 signal. None of the motherboards I've seen thus far seem to include a TV-Out option. That would be especially cool, but I can get that on a $40 SiS AG315T, GeForce4 MX or RADEON VE AGP card if needed.

HUN-YA!

Red Ronin

It comes with a PCI slot bracket that has a digital coax out and optical out connector on it. I really dig the DD 5.1 encoding on it on my HTPC, nothing like gaming in glorious surround sound.

 

[KF]

The analog sound is three jacks within the ususal I/O backplate. If you need more than 2 channels, up to 6 channels, the mic and aux inputs are switched to outputs. The digital Dolby is on a PCI bracket. Another PCI bracket adds two more USB. One more PCI bracket can add another COM port, since the spot for the second is taken by the video connector. No TV out. No OC without a little mod.