best hardware for adsl?

[neilm]

Can anyone advise what the best products are to get? I know that external isn't as good as internal hardware, so should be avoided, but dunno anything else.

I've been using a 56K modem for the past 4 years and am pretty lost, not sure what all I need. I briefly looked at the some hardware reviews and got slightly more confused.
Is there any other reason to buy a router other than networking more than one computer online? and would it be a good idea just to get one to future proof it?

If so, which is the best combined ADSL Modem/Router you guys recommend?

Thanks!

 

[Soybomb]

I know that external isn't as good as internal hardware

Personal preference I guess....I feel like I have a ton more flexibility with external and wouldn't get an internal ever.

Just be sure you get a dsl modem thats compatible with your providers service. They're really not as mix and match as docsis compliant cable modems are.

 

[kehi]

It all depends on what modems are supported by the ISP. Please list your ISP and I can provide more help

 

[neilm]

Originally posted by: kehi
It all depends on what modems are supported by the ISP. Please list your ISP and I can provide more help

Sorry... it's an ISP called Nildram, from the UK if that's any help

 

[neilm]

bump

so I should just ask my ISP... won't they just give me their package which is never of best quailty than the ones you can get yourself?

 

[JackMDS]

The best hardware for your purpose is External Ethernet (I.e . . . no Internal or USB).

Which Brand?

The really does not matter one!

 

[neilm]

External Ethernet? If it's not usb, is that wireless? I'm more likely wrong cause I'm new to this stuff, but why do you say external ethernet.. what does it have over internal etc?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I know that external isn't as good as internal hardware

Personal preference I guess....I feel like I have a ton more flexibility with external and wouldn't get an internal ever.

Just be sure you get a dsl modem thats compatible with your providers service. They're really not as mix and match as docsis compliant cable modems are.

Not true. DSL Modems and spec are built to a standard just as Cable Modems are built to the Docsis standard. You have been successfully brainwashed by the Telco's. Very sad.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: neilm

Originally posted by: kehi
It all depends on what modems are supported by the ISP. Please list your ISP and I can provide more help

Sorry... it's an ISP called Nildram, from the UK if that's any help

The Zoom USB DSL Modem won top awards in the UK for ADSL service. You can go to Dixon's Website to order one.

The UK ISP's do not spew out this garbage of "Only use what Modem your Telco supports" crap like in the U.S. The U.S. is being brainwashed by strictly Bullsh!t Marketing tactics getting people to believe there is actually something Engineeringly different between DSL Modems that would cause them to not work from one ISP or Telco to another, absolute rubbish. So sad that people are so easily brainwashed.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: neilm
Can anyone advise what the best products are to get? I know that external isn't as good as internal hardware, so should be avoided, but dunno anything else.

I've been using a 56K modem for the past 4 years and am pretty lost, not sure what all I need. I briefly looked at the some hardware reviews and got slightly more confused.
Is there any other reason to buy a router other than networking more than one computer online? and would it be a good idea just to get one to future proof it?

If so, which is the best combined ADSL Modem/Router you guys recommend?

Thanks!

Also if you will be networking multiple computers right way the Zoom X4 is a combo DSL/Router with USB and Ethernet both live at the same time. You can plug in 2 computers with no addtional equipment needed. Simplay add a switch to connect more machines. If you want an Ethernet only DSL Modem the Zoom X3 is the Model then.

Enjoy the High speed once you get your DSL going, you'll never want go back to 56K ever again.

 

[neilm]

Thanks for the replies dmcowen674!
Another source were advising against external USB ADSL modems, but they seemed to recommend the idea of a router with a modem built in.. I'll have a look at that zoom one.

 

[JackMDS]

Today no body will rent his Telephone instrument form the Telco. If you are young you do not know that years ago people would ask the same question that you are asking about DSL concerning their Telephone. They were afraid to get their own instrument.

The debate over Broadband hardware was settled already.

Using Entry Level Network hardware, the most efficient flexible way to connect to broadband (Cable or DSL) is to use External Ethernet Modem a Stand alone Cable/DSL Router, and a Ethernet Network Card in you computer.

If the ISP insists to provide their "Stuff", and it is not external Ethernet, you can get a Cable Modem at the MegaStore. DSL Modems are not sold in Mega Stores but here there is a Link to an alternative good source.

Link: DSL Modems Direct.

If you want to educate yourseff about the topic.

Link: AnandTech - FAQ. Basic Options for Internet Connection Sharing

Link: AnandTech - FAQ. Hubs, routers, switches, DSL, LANs, WANs...?

Link: Diagram of Broadband Connection with Cable/DSL Router.

 

[Soybomb]

Not true. DSL Modems and spec are built to a standard just as Cable Modems are built to the Docsis standard. You have been successfully brainwashed by the Telco's. Very sad.

Really? I'm not really too much into the DSL side of things, but I know where I work we have specific modems that are used in areas where verizon's dsl network is frame relay based, and another type we use in their ATM areas and they will not work on a network other than the one they're intended with. Or so I've heard from customers reports although I've never tried it myself. Are there modems available that would work on both types? Does that even make any difference?

edit: look below, I educated myself

 

[JackMDS]

Of course there are implementations that are not conforming to the main stream Home use.

However dmcowen674 is right when it is concerning most of Home installations done in the last year.

 

[Soybomb]

I was curious and have been reading a little more and found that in many areas as long as you have a DMT capable dsl modem you're good to go. He's a good paper I found that details some of it http://www.xtremepccentral.com/articles/dsl/capvsdmt.html Apparently CAP is generally considered inferior and is gone or being phased out of many areas, although apparently thats what the Fujitsu dslams verizon is using here (ex-gte land). In our area at least it would still be worth checking to be sure what modems are compatible because of how much of that old hardware is still servicing this area. Neat stuff, must read more...

 

[cmetz]

neilm, who's your ADSL ISP and LEC? There are a lot of different signalling and L2 ways to do DSL, and the equipment must support what your ISP and LEC does.

Many ADSL ISPs simply loan you or sell you an ADSL modem that works with their service. This is almost always the best thing to do. The reasons for this are that this will work with their service and that this is what their support people are likely to understand. Anything else, and you're pretty much on your own. And considering most ADSL ISPs/LECs are heavily cost optimized, their support folks WILL jump all over any non-standard equipment and blame it for everything they can talk you into - it's a great excuse for them.

Even if you decide later to get something else, get the ISP's default equipment and have it around for troubleshooting. It'll save you tremendous amounts of headache with tech support when you have line problems.

Also, the default equipment from Verizon for ATM (Westell Wirespeed C90) and from Qwest (Cisco) are both good.

I personally like to have a separate DSL modem (from the ISP/LEC) and router (yours). First of all because if either fails they can be diagnosed and/or replaced separately. Second of all because the DSL modem's function is something I personally want to be the ISP's problem, actually: I want a bridged or routed Ethernet hand-off, and I don't want to deal with any of this ADSL, ATM AAL5, PPPoA, PPPoE, or other such gorp. That's their problem, and they can keep it. But the IP part of the picture - any routing, firewalling, PAT, etc., I want control over, and so it's my problem.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: cmetz
neilm, who's your ADSL ISP and LEC? There are a lot of different signalling and L2 ways to do DSL, and the equipment must support what your ISP and LEC does.

Many ADSL ISPs simply loan you or sell you an ADSL modem that works with their service. This is almost always the best thing to do. The reasons for this are that this will work with their service and that this is what their support people are likely to understand. Anything else, and you're pretty much on your own. And considering most ADSL ISPs/LECs are heavily cost optimized, their support folks WILL jump all over any non-standard equipment and blame it for everything they can talk you into - it's a great excuse for them.

Even if you decide later to get something else, get the ISP's default equipment and have it around for troubleshooting. It'll save you tremendous amounts of headache with tech support when you have line problems.

Also, the default equipment from Verizon for ATM (Westell Wirespeed C90) and from Qwest (Cisco) are both good.

I personally like to have a separate DSL modem (from the ISP/LEC) and router (yours). First of all because if either fails they can be diagnosed and/or replaced separately. Second of all because the DSL modem's function is something I personally want to be the ISP's problem, actually: I want a bridged or routed Ethernet hand-off, and I don't want to deal with any of this ADSL, ATM AAL5, PPPoA, PPPoE, or other such gorp. That's their problem, and they can keep it. But the IP part of the picture - any routing, firewalling, PAT, etc., I want control over, and so it's my problem.

"Even if you decide later to get something else, get the ISP's default equipment and have it around for troubleshooting. It'll save you tremendous amounts of headache with tech support when you have line problems."

That's not a bad idea, too bad they just don't say something to that effect rather than just saying "don't use any other hardware other than what we give you or want you to use." However with more people asking and reading and excellent "Informed" information like what has been written in this thread will help to quash the very bad "Closed Market" practices the Telcos are currently pushing in the U.S. Eventually if enough people stand up to this "blame it for everything they can talk you into - it's a great excuse for them" attitude towards consumers then you will find DSL Modems in the Megastores.

You would rarely ever find a house with only one phone, if the phone itself went bad you don't have another known working phone to plug in and see if you get dial tone so this idea of having the "ISP's default" equipment at least in the closet is a good one.

"their support folks WILL jump all over any non-standard equipment".
I'm glad the information about the few and far between Fujitsu CAP style of DSLAMs that provide DSL service came out here. That is like a different kind of phone service that a normal phone as we are used to wouldn't work or get dial tone. Most ISP systems are DMT in that the DSLAM that provides the DSL signal does it using that method. All DSL Modems conforming to DMT will work. It is a standard.

I would also like to point out there was one pretty big exception to this and they are now gone. Telocity which then became DirectTV DSL had DMT DSL Modems built that did not conform to the standard in that there was no way to change the VPI and VCI information in the Modem. That meant that the Modems would only work on that Network only and here is why. The VPI (Virtual Path Identifier for the DSLAM port) and VCI (Virtual Circuit Identifier) is just a set of numbers that allows multiple Networks or Carriers to use the same DSLAM that provides DSL service. For example in the BellSouth region they use 8/35 with Earthlink on the same wire and DSLAM's using 0/35.

So to switch DSL Providers you would just change the VPI and VCI numbers as well as your Username and Password and you are done. This is easily done through the Browser Interface software that comes with the DSL Modems or it could just be the Browser itself.

So when DirectTV recently gave up DSL business because they weren't allowed to compete fairly with the Telco's (another story and part of this "Closed market" condition) it left thousands and thousands of DSL Modems around the country as good as a doorstop.

The U.S. Telcos are on the verge of mandating this kind of mentality all over again. The FCC and the MPAA are trying to Legislate that the Telcos and the MPAA will have the right to tell you what hardware you can and cannot use, they are also trying to wrest complete control over what you can and cannot have on your PC. This is all in the Politics and News section so I won't go into detail here but there is a lot happening out there and it is not good. If this kind of Legislation goes through not only will you NOT have a choice of what hardware to use and that will stifle progress and innovation of better features and improving on technology through competiton but you can be thrown in jail on Felony charges for using any other hardware equipment other that what is mandated by the Telephone Company. This is the same as if you must use a AT&T phone years ago but now even worse. Let's all hope this doesn't happen and everyone get involved if you believe that this is wrong especially in the United States.

 

[Mem]

Slightly off topic,but my brother and I are setting up an ADSL system here in the UK,we have ordered the Netgear DG814 ,as you can see in the review it says

The DG814 is a basic ADSL modem/router compatible with all the ISPs using the BT Wholesale ADSL service or the Kingston Communications Karoo service.

As for ISP (ADSL),we have not decided yet,since we are debating the final choices between 512k and 1MB ADSL companies.
For ADSL providers in the UK ,I would look around at the many different speed/prices packages that are available from this list here (Note the prices are listed for a year not by month ) if you are not sure about your Nildram ISP.

I know Freeserve do free setup no hidden charges,you just pay £27.99 a month for 512k ADSL if you use your own ADSL hardware gear,they also offer ALL the hardware gear(modem etc) at £84.99 I believe,see their homepage.

Anyway neilm,I`ll let you know how it goes when we are online with ADSL within the next week or so here in UK.

 

[neilm]

I've heard some people had a few problems with that model Mem... I'll be interested to know how it goes with you.. also, it doesn't really matter if there is a built in firewall, nah?

 

[Mem]

I've heard some people had a few problems with that model Mem... I'll be interested to know how it goes with you.. also, it doesn't really matter if there is a built in firewall, nah?

neilm,latest update is we have it all up and running(typing this message post with it now),there was no problems ,all went smooth.We are using Freeserve ADSL,my brother didn`t even bother with their software for setup(did it manually)we also updated the firmware for the DG814 to the latest official version.

The Netgear DG814 is a very nice ADSL modem/router in real life,the pics don`t do it justice,everything is included in the box.
Having been on 56k for 6 years and going to ADSL for me is a shocck (how I survived on 56k I don`t know :frown: ).

 

[neilm]

Originally posted by: Mem
neilm,latest update is we have it all up and running(typing this message post with it now),there was no problems ,all went smooth.We are using Freeserve ADSL,my brother didn`t even bother with their software for setup(did it manually)we also updated the firmware for the DG814 to the latest official version.

The Netgear DG814 is a very nice ADSL modem/router in real life,the pics don`t do it justice,everything is included in the box.
Having been on 56k for 6 years and going to ADSL for me is a shocck (how I survived on 56k I don`t know :frown: ).

Thanks mem for the update, most appreciated! looks like the dg814 is top of my list along with the dlink_dsl504, doesn't really matter which one I choose I think cause they both seem to be quailty.

Everyone keeps sayin they dunno how they survived 56k... I can't wait to be honest, I'll have adsl setup along with my new system, I dont want the experience to have a broadband connection with this beast of a machine (awe, I'm just kidding you served me well). So it should be a hoot

 

[lobadobadingdong]

Originally posted by: Soybomb

I know that external isn't as good as internal hardware

Personal preference I guess....I feel like I have a ton more flexibility with external and wouldn't get an internal ever.

Just be sure you get a dsl modem thats compatible with your providers service. They're really not as mix and match as docsis compliant cable modems are.

indeed, it's awfully hard to use a broadband router with an internal modem and I'd probably have a heart attack if I had to resort to ICS on my lan.

If you were closer to the states I'd offer to sale you a Speed stream dsl kit I have lying around as a backup if my primary fails.

 

[FoBoT]

hmm, good info, no need for me to start a new thread

i am going to atlanta to setup my mother-in-law's house on BellSouth DSL in two weeks

i will just buy the zoom X4 from dave and use the 2nd pair trick on his website so i won't even need filters

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
hmm, good info, no need for me to start a new thread

i am going to atlanta to setup my mother-in-law's house on BellSouth DSL in two weeks

i will just buy the zoom X4 from dave and use the 2nd pair trick on his website so i won't even need filters

Hi Fobot, Did you order the Modem? I recently got an order from 2 very nearby towns to me, Alpharetta and Athens.
I have a big announcement to make that I will post of the DSLModemsDirect website tomorrow but I will give a heads up here relating to fellow Atlantans.

Fobot if you wanted to set up your own DSL Modem this week you no longer have just the Telco or DSLModemsDirect as the only choices. As of this week Microcenter in both Alpharetta and Dulth as well as the rest of the Country now have the very same Zoom DSL Modems in stock. Other retail Centers such as CDW also now have them in stock or on order!

For the first time in U.S. history you can just go down to the store and get a DSL Modem.

Thank you all who helped in your support of helping to dispell the Myth by the Telcos that DSL Modems are so different that you can only get them from them. A small but very important part of Computer and Internet history, congrats all! :beer: