Best distro for someone new to Linux

zipper1

Member
Jul 4, 2001
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I?m new to Linux and need some help

I just installed Sun?s Java Desktop and wish I had asked before I did. Can anyone recommend a decent distro with good driver support?

With the sun system I can?t seem to get any wheel mouse to work properly even when they clearly list all the mice I have in Yast2 and none of them work properly with SJD .

The networking seemed to work great finding my XP Laptop...

I also was unable to install additional desktop themes I downloaded. I followed their instructions to the letter with no success. Can anyone tell me how this works and how to install new themes and other apps in Linux?

Thanks for all help
:D
 

GhettoFob

Diamond Member
Apr 27, 2001
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I installed Red Hat first, I'm currently using Gentoo and I plan on trying out Debian. Red Hat or Mandrake are good choices for beginners.
 

zipper1

Member
Jul 4, 2001
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There is a site for Linux wheel mouse help.

Download times out says unavailable try again later.

I will...thanks for help

I'll try Debain

what?s the secret to installing downloaded rpm's and tar's? Does the procedure differ from distro to distro?

Thanks again for help
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: zipper1
There is a site for Linux wheel mouse help.

Download times out says unavailable try again later.

I will...thanks for help

I'll try Debain

what?s the secret to installing downloaded rpm's and tar's? Does the procedure differ from distro to distro?

Thanks again for help

For a first time distro it depends on the personality of the user. If you want a computer just to use a computer and would like it to become as usefull as soon as possible and learn at your lesure, then I think Fedora is a good choice. Mandrake is good, but it lacks a good package manager (or at least support for a good package manager), also Suse is in the same boat.

Slackware is good for people that want to take a hands on approach and learn as much as quickly as possible. It has a basic package manager, and has some basic tools but lacks much of the functionality of a full blown package manager.

In the past one of the major things that sucked with most linux distros was how difficult for new people to learn how to install programs and get the OS configured to how they want.

Rpm's stand for redhat package management files. These are pre-compiled versions of programs that can be easily installed on your OS. They are commonly used by Distros who share a common ancestoral heratige with Redhat. Common ones are Suse, Mandrake, Redhat, and now Fedora (which is now the public version of Redhat OS that is created with the help of redhat engineers). Also a popular one for spanish (and portugese?) speaking areas like in South America is Conectiva. On top of that there dozens of distros created for specific schools, countries, and purposes.

These Redhat based ones are generally what is recommended for first time users. You use rpm tools and commands to install and manage the programs.

Then you have Gentoo, Debian, Slackware.

Slackware is the oldest distro still around. It's based on a no-frills approach, were it gives you the tools and the programs most usefull for most people and then just leave everything else out. It forgos many of the modern features of a distro for the sake of simplicity. It's going to be the most Unix-like Linux distro you can find, and has some oddball characteristics like BSD-style init (start-up) scripts, were most distros use varations of system-v style. (BSD was the BSD Unix OS which was a academic OS famous for it's open attitude and creation of the TCP/IP protocol and it's role in ArpaNet and the foundation of the internet, and System-V was the last major AT&T-based Unix Unix. It forms the basis for most modern commercial Unix operating systems, like HP-UX, AIX, and SCO openunix). Slackware uses tgz file format for packages, which is slightly confusing at first because it's the same filename used by tarballs (tar.gz or .tgz). Tarballs are the common format for most everything, it's Linux's equivalent to zip files.

Debian is another classical OS. It's best features is the Apt package manager and it's high quality package developement (and unfortunatly long turn around times for stable OSes.). With Apt you can update your OS, and install programs easily and quickly. You pick a program, do "apt-get install progname", and Apt finds it, downloads it, installs it, and sets up a basic configuration with it. Very nice. Debian is starting to get more popular, especially with seasoned Linux users.

Gentoo is a newer one that is based on high amounts of costomization based around portage. Portage is like apt that it is a package manager, the major difference is that instead of downloading programs you download the program's source code and compile it on the fly. THe upside is that you get only the features you want + Gentoo is always going to have the newest and the best features of any OS. The downside is that it takes forever to install anything if it takes freaking forever, plus with using newest of everything you get less reliability from using untested configurations.

Apt realy is cool. It makes installing and administrating a machine much simplier. Fedora is good because it combines the ease of use from the compilicated setups + the ability to install programs and their dependances easily. It does this by using one of 2 package managers, Apt (that has been ported to use rpm's instead of Debian's deb files) and Yum.

Source code is generally found in tarballs. These are files that have been created by using the tar command then compressed using gzip. You can uncompress them with the command "tar zxfv filename.tar.gz". They also use the .tgz ending for compliance with MS 8.3 filename restrictions. A variation of these is files compressed with bzip2. You can uncompress these with the command "tar jxfv filename.tar.bz2". Bzip2 has higher compression ratio, but takes much longer to run the compression. Gui apps included with the Gnome and KDE desktop managers have graphical tools to deal with these programs.

The standard way to build and install a program from source code is to untar it, cd into the new directory. And do this:
./configure
make
su #used to become superuser/administrator/root to have rights to install stuff outside your own home directory.
make install

However that's not a hard and fast rule. It's up to each programmer to set it up how they like and you have to read the README and Install files or other documentation to figure out the correct method. Generally programs installed this way go into the /usr/local/ directories, while programs installed thru official package managers and from packages end up in /usr/ and /usr/share. Also /opt is something you may see some times, especially in Gentoo and Redhat-descendant distros, lots of times Java stuff gets installed there as well as gnome and KDE apps.


Also to get your mouse working goto your /etc/X11/XF86Config or /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 (check your /var/log/XFree86.log files for the specific one if your unsure) and find the part of the file that controls the mouse behavior and change it to look similar to this:

Section "InputDevice"
Identifier "Configured Mouse"
Driver "mouse"
Option "CorePointer"
Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice"
Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" #<--- important line for you
Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" #<---- important line (adds detection for the number 4 and 5 buttons which are your scroll up and down.
EndSection

Lines marked #<--- important are ones to mess with, leave the other ones alone.

If you have more then one mouse configuration find the serverlayout setup and it will tell you:

Section "ServerLayout"
Identifier "Default Layout"
Screen "Default Screen"
InputDevice "Generic Keyboard"
InputDevice "Configured Mouse" #<----- mouse config used
EndSection

For the mouse: Option "Protocol" try "auto". Other drivers are "ImPS/2" for the optical mouse, and "PS/2" for regular mouse.

Other mouse protocols to try can include:
Auto, Microsoft, MouseSystems, MMSeries, Logitech, Mouse-
Man, MMHitTab, GlidePoint, IntelliMouse, ThinkingMouse,
AceCad, PS/2, ImPS/2, ExplorerPS/2, ThinkingMousePS/2,
MouseManPlusPS/2, GlidePointPS/2, NetMousePS/2,
NetScrollPS/2, BusMouse, SysMouse, WSMouse, USB, Xqueue.


 

pitupepito2000

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2002
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you got lot's of good info there drag. I just have one question. Why would you suggest Fedora, over Knoppix. Knoppix would him or her the ability to install a full blown debian installation, without the pain of going through a Debian install, and it gives you all the advantages of the apt-get.

 

Bloodstein

Senior member
Nov 8, 2002
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Oh man....after reading the stuff drag put up....i feel completely useless...

*thinks* maybe a career in social sciences...
 

pitupepito2000

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2002
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Originally posted by: Bloodstein
Oh man....after reading the stuff drag put up....i feel completely useless...

*thinks* maybe a career in social sciences...

Agree. That's quite a lot of knowledge and typing. ;)
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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Originally posted by: pitupepito2000
you got lot's of good info there drag. I just have one question. Why would you suggest Fedora, over Knoppix. Knoppix would him or her the ability to install a full blown debian installation, without the pain of going through a Debian install, and it gives you all the advantages of the apt-get.


I installed Debian thru knoppix before. It worked out pretty well, however I had some trouble with some of the packages when having knoppix and debian sources together and when I switched to debian only there were a lot of stuff that knoppix installed that wasn't supported. So sometimes it's a bit confusing to resolve these issues. Maybe I was just being stupid though.

Knoppix rocks anyways.

Fedora has a nice package management and Apt and Yum are supported by Fedora, and I had good results with it. Plus Fedora is more likely to get everything working a bit faster without so much looking up stuff, plus many people use Redhat and it's more likely he can find the answers to technical answers since more people use Redhat/Fedora that are newbies and will face the same difficulties adjusting, it just has a larger userbase.

Knoppix is definately a good choice though.


Originally posted by: Bloodstein
Oh man....after reading the stuff drag put up....i feel completely useless...

*thinks* maybe a career in social sciences...



Agree. That's quite a lot of knowledge and typing.

Na, I am a fast typer (praticed with typing tutorial programs for couple hours everyday for a couple weeks, it was like a challenge or game or something.) and have enough time and experiance to know were to look to find answers quickly.


For instance for the list of supported mouse protocols you go:

man -k mouse
to look for any man references to mouse, the -k does a search.
There were 3 references to mouse man files that looked relevent.

mouse (3ncurses) - mouse interface through curses
mouse (4) - serial mouse interface
mouse (4x) - Mouse input driver

So I looked at mouse 4 and that wasn't relevent then I looked mouse 4x and that had the list of protocols in it. With man you can have several different versions of a man file. Each are for different purposes, like for programmers, endusers or whatever. To see a specific version you use -S

man -S 4x mouse
gave me the man file I was looking for, then it was just a matter of copy and paste....


Plus, I just spent a hour or so messing around with a freinds computer just last week to get a mouse working that was being incorrectly detected by auto and didn't work.

:p
 

Flatline

Golden Member
Jun 28, 2001
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Drag, you lose a lot of the apt issues with Knoppix if you edit your /etc/apt/sources.list file to include only the "testing" sources. Knoppix uses kind of a hodge-podge of stable, unstable, and testing by default; it seems to help tremendously to narrow it down to just one of them.

By the way, I would like to take this opportunity to sincerely thank you for being so helpful and informative for the noobs even though your skill level is so much higher...it's always nice to see one of us who has been around 'nix for a while not dissing the new initiates. Cheers!
 

Eltano1

Golden Member
Aug 6, 2000
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If I only have just 10% of drag knowledge on Linux, oh man, I will really, really happy. I just installed Suse in a spare pc and is sitting thgere waiting for me to play around.

Best regards

Eltano
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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It's not a big deal, and there realy is no reason to be that impressed. There are other people here that know a hell of a lot more then I do.

The best way to learn is by doing. If you want to learn Linux you dump windows and use linux.

Think back to all the little Window-isms that you've learned over the years. The conventions in design and execution of the user interface.

The virus scanners, DLL's, the drivers, the device manager. Different menus and features that the only way to access them is buy going thru dozens of different menus and wizards.

Most people here have been using windows for years and years and years. Hell it's been 6 years since Win98 has been released, and many people were using win95 and win3.11 and dos for a long time before that!

Now to most people it's easy. Why? Not because Windows has the king of all user interfaces, but because it's now so familar. It's created a standard and accepted way of thinking about computers. A good example is that A: drive and Floppy drive are interchangable terms. How many times have you heard something like "Stick the floppy in the A: drive for me, please"

Now when people go Linux from Windows they say: "Were is the A: drive?" and when you talk about mounting they go: "Why does it do that, the A: drive is so simple!"

What if a Linux guy never used or seen Windows before starts using it, and he asks you "Were is the /dev folder? I want to make a backup copy of my boot up disk to go on my file server for safe keeping." or "Why can't I install programs anymore by just typing ./configure; make;make install?" or "I want to rename my D: drive to Home:, can I do that or do I have to create a symbolic link?", and "What runlevel script do I have to edit to get sshd working?"

So the best way to learn is to simply become familar with it by using it. If you use Linux for a couple years as the main desktop and spend a little time learning stuff here and there on a regular basis, then you will become familar with it quickly.

After all that's one of the reasons I hang out here. Buy answering questions and double checking stuff I get a much better grasp on the subject myself. What I talk about I have very little memorized, most of it is "Oh, I remember doing that, or I remember reading something about that" and then looking up. The reason I started using Linux in the first place is because *nix's networking capabilities blow everything else out water, win98 was easy for me to use, and it trained me well enough that I avoided doing things that broke it, but I couldn't learn anything new by using it, and the software, programming and server capabilities that I desired were unobtainable due to the price of it. So linux rocked.

Anyways, plenty of times I am dead wrong anyways, so it's best to always double check for yourself.

And you want to know my source to the secret to linux knowledge? Google (linux version) and Vivisimo :)
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
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I've never had a problem with a wheel mouse in linux if I just use the "auto" option when doing the xf86config program.
 

pitupepito2000

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2002
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Hey, Drag above you mentioned that you got really fast at typing by using some programs. Do you know of any good open source programs out there that could help me get faster at typing? Also, is there any websites that you read to learn more about linux? How long have you been using linux? These are just questions to know what makes you what you are. I mean, how can I get better at linux. ;).

Thanks,
pitupepito
 

drag

Elite Member
Jul 4, 2002
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I am not a terribly fast typist, but I do do pretty good I think. I get around 35 words or so a minute when I try, maybe past 40 if their easy words. And that's nothing compared to other people and is pretty average once you meet people familar with keyboards.

A freind at work can type fast. He could do maybe 95 or so words a minute on a standard type writer, or 70 or so on his special one erganomic one.

Professional typist can get over 100 words a minutes.

gtypist is a good program. It can be like a game (funner then trying to get +10 leatherworker in some games) if you want. You have to type fast enough and without more then 3.0% errors to proceed to the next level/drill/lesson. Plus it's not all childish like most typist programs aimed at children.

I forced myself to learn howto type because I found it was very awkward to do anything. I liked vim for isntance, but looking down all the time at the keyboard kinda defeated the purpose of the key strokes command mode. I got realy fed up when trying to learn a bit of programming out of a book...

I ended up going, look at the book, look at the keyboard, type, look at the screen, look at the book, look at the screen, backspace backspace backspace, look at the book, read, look at the keyboard, look at the screen. etc etc etc. SO PAINFULLY SLOW. So I gave that up, learned howto touch type and everything is much easier now. Now writing stuff by hand is painfully slow and awkward.

Just be sure to get in a ergonomic position. Best is to have a keyboard tray that sits the keyboard low close to your legs, sometimes even on your lap. Then to have a mouse pad right next to it. Sore wrists are caused by constanty moving your wrists and that can cause the repetative movement syndrom. So you want to be able to reach the mouse with minimal movement and have it at the same level as your keyboard. That way you can have your arms resting comfortably at yourside. Also don't rest your wrist up on any corner of your desk. The corner puts pressure and causes soreness. Have a pad to prop your elbow up when using the mouse if possible.

Plus I don't think that I am a all that knowledgable linux guy anyways. It's just that I like to help people out.
 

Farfrael

Senior member
Mar 6, 2002
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Originally posted by: dragPlus I don't think that I am a all that knowledgable linux guy anyways. It's just that I like to help people out.

Good enough for me :)
Thanks for your help on the forum

 

zipper1

Member
Jul 4, 2001
97
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Hey guys
just in from work...long days

Thanks Drag...your post helped me alot and i will put it to test tomorow my one and only day off from work.
I'm downloading Redhat Fedora and am on disc 3 of the i386 files do i also need the SRPMS? I plan to install tomorow as well.

Thanks to all for the great post and the best help on the net.