Best display tech for HDTVs?

[xtknight]

Well, the ice-age, fat 27" direct-view CRT in my living room is starting to show its age with only standard definition support. The time has come to get a high-def display that's thin in depth (as my mom insists so).

So I was wondering, which of the thin display technologies displays the most saturated picture (most important factor for me)? LCD? LCoS? DLP? Plasma? Something I'm not mentioning? A projector would be fine I suppose but I'm looking for something with a built-in tuner, remote, etc...a television, not a monitor. I have seen some of these TVs in action (though I wouldn't remember which was which) a while ago but I haven't paid a visit to any of the brick-and-mortar stores lately. Are 3-chip DLPs in the near future?

I'm just looking for an HDTV where the image REALLY sticks out, and hopefully with a great contrast and deep black level (as good as an S-PVA LCD or better). Preferably 1920x1080i with HDCP support. Good horizontal viewing angles are a must. Size isn't a big deal. Price range probably $2000 maximum. What'll probably happen is I'll end up buying one of today's best TVs a year from now because the others will be too expensive. I still don't know, but I just wonder what the TV situation is today. Financial situation next year may be different too so I'm mainly just wondering about the technologies.

So to wrap up:

HDTV with:
[*]Built-in ATSC tuner (8VSB terrestrial and even unencrypted QAM digital cable support would be nice)
[*]1920x1080i resolution, no transformations (no downscale or upscale)
[*]Very saturated/high contrast color
[*]Good horizontal viewing angle
[*]HDCP via DVI (and/or HDMI) input
[*]Thinner than 10" in depth
[*]Rudimentary PC hook-up support would be nice
[*]Under $2000

Is there such an HDTV or am I only dreaming? I'd be keeping it for awhile so that's why I'm crazy on the future-proofing.

 

[phaxmohdem]

Depends on your needs, if you want/need something to hang on the wall, LCD will give you the best Pic quality. If size is not an issue, find a nice DLP big screen. Go to your local electromegamart, and check out the difference between DLP and standard Projection. Wholey Hell it's awesome!

 

[xtknight]

Bump...

I don't think I'll be hanging the TV on the wall. I'll probably have a small table so I can hold a VCR and DVD player underneath. I'd (well my mom would) like it to be with a depth smaller than 10". Maybe I'll have to check it out for my self at a store sometime but I'm just wondering if anyone has been WOWed by any of the technologies over another. Are the Sony XRCD TVs LCoS?

 

[ponyo]

37" Sceptre LCD HDTV

I wouldn't mind getting something like this for my bedroom. Not bad at $1,499 after MIR and Costco peace of mind.

 

[hoorah]

If you want a TV with good viewing angles and great contrast, I've found that plasmas look the best (at least in the 42" range I was looking at). For circa 35" sets, an LCD might be better. I got my 42" plasma for $1900 after an instant rebate, a mail in rebate, and a 10% discount at best buy. I believe its the one they have in this weeks ad for 3000 from Toshiba.

Now, my best advice is to just go to the store and look. Reviews are nice, but the image in front of you is what counts.

 

[Demoth]

As far as picture quality goes with near perfect black levels, true color reproduction and picture clarity, a high end HD CRT is still the best, cheapest and has the longest half-life with no burn in problems. Unfortunately, they are sickeningly huge and heavy. Once SED hits market, there may be something that is the best of all worlds available.

Plasma is the next best as even cheaper models now have a 60,000 hour half-life which is more then most buyers will need before discarding their TV. However, plasmas are still expensive, especially something with all the features you want and some kind of technology to prevent burn in. Some of the cheaper plasmas (sub $2000) still have a chance of burning in a MSNBC logo or the like on a corner of your screen. Most lower end plasmas are also not HD, but for digital cable/satellite, they look very close to high def on every channel and have an incredible picture quality with very good blacks. Unfortunately for you, the better sub 2K plasmas tend to be bare monitors, such as the panasonic 37 and 42 inch models, which are amongst the very best picture/price ratios you can get today.

LCD is still on a technology spiral upwards and every few months better and better sets are hitting market. Next to CRT this is the cheapest and even some $1000 models can come near a decent plasma except for black level reproduction. If you enjoy lots of dark movies and shows like Star Wars (space combat) or the Matrix, then plasma will look better. Something like the Wizard of Oz or the Lord of the Rings will look the same on both.

DLP is highly dependent on generation and the better sets tend to be expensive, though a few good ones can be found in the $1500 range. They do not require total replacement like plasma, just a bulb change, but at 60K hours life, this isn't a factor for most. Picture quality wise, DLP is closer to LCD but with better blacks and a slight chance of a user seeing a rainbow effect.

On a $2000 budget and your requirements of built in sound and higher res, I'd go with a 37" LCD with a good built in speaker system like the-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824022014

On paper, the latest 37" sceptre naga looks good like people are recommending, but it has some major stutter problems-



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112174

 

[Todd33]

Plasma are really low res, not for HTPC. With his specs only the new 37" LCDs meet his needs, but even they are not 10" thin, unles you ignore the base.

 

[rancherlee]

DLP, definately. IMO DLP projection >CRT projection > LCD / Plazma. I currently have a CRT 57" projection HDTV and although it is pretty bulky it was cheap, had a better picture, and supports ALL HDTV modes for the price.

 

[xtknight]

Thanks for the replies.

Demoth: Sorry, I should mention I won't be watching too many movies if that matter. Mainly just TV (but I'd still like it to look good). Yeah, 60K hour life is just fine. What do you mean exactly by half life? It starts getting darker after 60K hours or it completely goes out after 60K hours?

I may just wait for SEDs. I almost forgot about them. Don't know how long I'll be waiting though. Frankly I will probably just wait since I don't have digital cable now and I don't want to spend a lot on a set I don't like. Will the SEDs be 10" in depth or less?

Originally posted by: rancherlee
DLP, definately. IMO DLP projection >CRT projection > LCD / Plazma. I currently have a CRT 57" projection HDTV and although it is pretty bulky it was cheap, had a better picture, and supports ALL HDTV modes for the price.

The RP CRT had a better picture than which one? The LCD/plasma? Sorry, not sure if you made a typo and meant you had an RP DLP.

As I understand it, for DLPs it really matters which generation you're looking at.

Which company would you say made the best DLP TVs? I've heard Samsung's 42" DLP was 'awful', which is quite unfortunate because I was looking at getting that one a while ago (but it's not 1080p anyway).

And how about LCoS? Is it supposed to be good? What is LCoS (besides "liquid crystal on silicon")?

 

[Demoth]

Yeah, not having digital cable really is a big factor. Standard cable on a high end plasma or the like will actually look worse then if you were watching it on a much cheaper set because it will exagerate the degraded picture quality.

As far as waiting for SED, it will still be a long wait before you see sets in the $2K range, probably years rather then months.

Half-life is basically the number of hours before you lose enough brightness to become noticeable. In the case of plasma, you dispose of the TV, with DLP you change a $200 (generally) set of bulbs.

DLP is good and some sets are potentially better then plasmas. I have not personally seen this one in action, but on paper at least, it looks like it can rival anything in it's price range-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824206026

 

[xtknight]

Well I do have terrestrial HDTV that I watch sometimes on my 17" LCD via DVI. Not that happy with that idea though. I definitely need something a lot bigger to watch it on. Do most HDTVs also let you watch normal NTSC TV?

Maybe I'll consider getting a 1080i TV now then and not worrying about progressive since it may need more than the standard 6 MHz integrated tuner can provide anyway. I'll probably be able to hook up an external 1080p tuner if need be unless for some reason the display can't do at least 60Hz. Not a problem with anything except CRTs, generally speaking the other techs are all at least 60Hz (via their inputs), right? When cows start flying I'll upgrade to an SED. Changed OP to 1080i.

I would definitely not like the picture to be transformed (upscaled or downscaled).

 

[Demoth]

I don't have much knowledge on watching standard cable on a HD TV, but going by what I have heard, plasma is plain terrible and LCD is decent. I would recommend scrapping standard cable and going with direct TV or dish network (prefer direct myself). All their channels are digital (at least simulated digital where they process and resend the image in a cleaner format). Basic sat tends to be cheaper then basic cable.

There are some good 32" LCDs in the $900 range that should be acceptable for non-digital signals because for that, it would be a waste of money to go too high end-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824179026

 

[xtknight]

While I love LCDs for monitors, I have a feeling the horizontal viewing angle at about 140 degrees would be terrible. Do any of the other technologies have limitations in terms of viewing angles (LCoS? DLP? Plasma? RP CRTs?) or is it just an LCD problem? I've heard somewhere DLPs have really bad vertical viewing angle but horizontal viewing angle is fine?

Don't worry, I can deal with standard cable not looking that good, as long as the HDTV looks really good. I won't be getting satellite (well I'm certain my parents wouldn't). I don't think I'll get the TV until I have digital cable anyway. Mainly now I'm just waiting for prices to fall though.

Is it general consensus there is no one type of TV that is better than the others and I should just check them out for myself? The Sony XRCDs sounded like they were better than anything else, but unfortunately I've had so many Sony devices fail on me (in a vast variety of electronics) I would not consider them. The JVC D-ILAs sounded good though.

I guess I don't know exactly what to do at this point. If there's a monitor with 720p and has much better color than the 1080i I'd probably pick the 720p. Then again, I'd tend to think high resolutions goes along with it overall being better.

 

[xtknight]

I've come to the conclusion I must make some trade-offs in order to meet the price point... so this is only 720p and it's slightly over in depth (13.4" , not bad though).

I'm still taking a serious look at the Samsung DLPs. How do you guys think this TV is? If it's good I'll wait for the price to fall. I hope it has HDCP. It does have HDMI.
Samsung 46" Widescreen DLP? HDTV

 

[Demoth]

You should check different types and brands out yourself as TV preferance is mostly subjective. One person sees unbearable rainbow effects on a DLP while 10 others won't see it. Same goes for screen door effects and most of the other reported flaws in the different technologies.

However, there is only so so much you can tell by viewing sets in stores as many enhance picture quality with a near perfect feed while tweaking brightness and settings to falsely make higher priced sets look better. There is only so much they can alter this way, but it would still be best to look at various TV and the few you are interested in at several different stores.

As far as Sony goes, I tend to avoid them based on more then just quality control, I think they are pretty much unethical and bad for the industry in general.

 

[Demoth]

Here's the same basic set in a 42" variety. It's specs look good and it is within your price range- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16889102012

Wait till after Christmas and you will see some good price drops though any one particular set may not go down.

 

[xtknight]

That 42" was the one I heard bad things about at avs-forum, but I figure they're 'anal' over there to put it softly (one person had a huge DLP hate thread, declaring everything except CRTs crap). I'm going to ignore that and see it for myself instead.

I'll definitely go check out the 42" at Circuit City some day and if it looks good, I'll take it home (hopefully). The only thing I'm worried about is the rainbow effect. Would you see it immediately? I did notice at school when watching a movie via a projector, I moved my eyes across the screen really fast and noticed separation of red/green/blue but it only happened when I moved my eyes really fast a certain way, just an observation, and it did not bother me at all. I'm not even sure if it was a DLP projector though.

Lastly should I be worried about which DLP chip it uses? HD3? Is this RCA much better because it uses HD3? Well I'm not sure what the Samsung 42" uses.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824206026

Thanks.

 

[Nextman916]

xt are you buying this "dream tv" for you mom? just curious

 

[justlnluck]

Like others have said, go to a best buy, sams club, or costco. Decide which technology looks best to you and then decide which manufacturer delivers the best value for the money.

Personally, because I have grown up always watching CRTs, I only find plasma as an acceptable replacement. DLP sets have attractive prices, but still have terrible viewing angles like CRT RP. If you're used to the look of a rear projection TV, then this might be just fine. But since you mentioned that you currently have CRT, I think you're best off sticking with Plasma.

If you check out the AVS Forums, you will see many discussions on what are the best plasma screens out there, along with lengthy discussions on other display technogies. I highly recommend checking that place out.

 

[saahmed]

I work in the electronics dept. at a store so I have been able to compare the different types of tv's. IMO either an LCD rear projection or a flat panel LCD would be the best choice. Plasmas really look like crap, nice color and brightness, but blurry as hell. CRT rear projections are really good to, but too big. DLP's do better with moving picture, but the ones we have at my store at least, seem to be fuzzy around the edges of objects.

From the different LCD rear projections I have seen, I would have to say that the Sonys are the best. They are in your price range and they have an awesome picture. They also have everything you are looking for but are just a little deeper than 10''. The model #'s, if you are interested, are KDFE42A10 and KDFE50A10 for the 42 in. ($1799) and 50 in ($2199). KDFE55A20 and KDFE60A20 for the 55 ($2599) and 60 in ($2999). Those are the price at the store I work at, so if youre in the midwest you could check one of the stores out.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nextman916
xt are you buying this "dream tv" for you mom? just curious

Nope, we are buying it for the whole family but she is really picky about depth for some reason, even though we have a 27" CRT now (don't ask). I guess she thinks that if we pay more we should be able to get it real thin, but in reality we pay that much for barebones then if you want it really thin you pay the extra.

Anyway, I'll just go and check HDTVs out at Circuit City/Best Buy/CompUSA some time. Thanks guys.

 

[Todd33]

No way those Sony RP LCDs are 1920x1080 though.

 

[Lurknomore]

Keep dreaming- there is no good, large, native 1920 x1080i display with deep, rich color for under $2000, unless you count the 37" Westinghouse, which has poor blacks.

There are 46" Samsung and Sharp LCD tvs, 1920x1080, with better color than the Westy and built-in ATSC tuner but they're way over $2000.

I think you would best be served by a 50" DLP with built-in HD tuner.
There is upscaling, but the picture is very good with better than LCD blacks and better viewing angles.
Check out AVS forums and tell us how you made out, if indeed you did purchase something.