Best digital sound card for music

[alcoholbob]

I was considering a future purchase of the Panasonic SA-XR55 (or whatever flagship will be available at the time of my purchase in the future). I have an Axiom stereo setup, and given the majority of the DVDs I watch (Anime) are still Dolby Surround, my main purpose is to find the cleanest digital sound card available (it doesn't have to be digital-only, rather I am looking for the best sound card in clean digital output).

I'm currently using a Creative Audigy 2, and although the analog is fair, I don't have a breakout box for digital out and I know the minijack digital out is way over-voltage for normal receivers. Besides, I'd rather avoid any form of resampling 44.1KHz, when I listen to music.

This sort of removes the X-mystique and Montegro as candidates, since DDL is not a required feature for me. I don't game that much, and so I'd have to turn off DDL whenever possible (since in non-gaming situations C-media states the audio will severely lag behind the video). Not to mention, both DDL cards have very poor IMD, SNR, and THD results, being inferior to even the original Audigy in this regard.

So would say, the M-Audio Revo 5.1 or 7.1 be my best candidate in this regard (feeding a pure digital signal to a digitally amplified receiver), or some other sound card? I'd like to hear the suggestions. In the end, it's very possible that the XiFi might provide the best digital out quality, although I'd hate to spend as much on the 500+W receiver as I do on a soundcard that just offloads the work to the receiver.

 

[SynthDude2001]

For purely digital usage (and no 5.1 gaming desired over said digital connection), I hear the Chaintech AV-710 (hope I got that model number right) recommended a lot. It's also really inexpensive, around $25.

 

[fleshconsumed]

If you are watching DVDs only then Audigy2 will be fine since DVD audio is recorded at 48Khz so there is no resampling. Otherwise, especially if you need good line out, get something envy24 based variant. I'd avoid m-audio because they ceased support for their revo lineup, no drivers update anymore. Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 is live and kicking though, the last driver update was probably only a several months ago. You could also go with e-mu 404/1212m, but the drivers are horrible, which is to be expected from any creative product.

 

[CSMR]

The E-MU 0404 has high quality digital out they say. (In general optical is recommended for PC output.)

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
For purely digital usage (and no 5.1 gaming desired over said digital connection), I hear the Chaintech AV-710 (hope I got that model number right) recommended a lot. It's also really inexpensive, around $25.

:thumbsup:

I had one for a while (it's actually sitting right here next to me) and it worked quite well.

Big and old thread about it and other via envy based cards over at AVSforum

 

[alcoholbob]

You replaced it Yoyo? With what and why? : P

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
You replaced it Yoyo? With what and why? : P

I thought I was going to be gaming more than I have been, so I got an X-Mystique for DDL capability.

I should have just stayed with the chaintech as I tend to spend 95% of my computer time on AT

 

[Excelsior]

What they said.

 

[alcoholbob]

The real question is, is there truly different classes of cards in terms of pure bit-perfect digital output?

I just realized the Chaintech nForce3 board I bought came with a PCI soundcard that has SPDIF out. There's no electronics to speak of on it, its just a singla capacitor and a couple of transistor switches sitting on a piece of silicon, and an SPDIF output and firewire on the other end. It's pretty obvious this thing will run on CPU cycles. The question is, will there be an audible difference between this, and say the Chaintech AV-710, or a Creative-based digital output?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
The real question is, is there truly different classes of cards in terms of pure bit-perfect digital output?

I just realized the Chaintech nForce3 board I bought came with a PCI soundcard that has SPDIF out. There's no electronics to speak of on it, its just a singla capacitor and a couple of transistor switches sitting on a piece of silicon, and an SPDIF output and firewire on the other end. It's pretty obvious this thing will run on CPU cycles. The question is, will there be an audible difference between this, and say the Chaintech AV-710, or a Creative-based digital output?

My guess would be very little difference.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Astrallite
The real question is, is there truly different classes of cards in terms of pure bit-perfect digital output?

I just realized the Chaintech nForce3 board I bought came with a PCI soundcard that has SPDIF out. There's no electronics to speak of on it, its just a singla capacitor and a couple of transistor switches sitting on a piece of silicon, and an SPDIF output and firewire on the other end. It's pretty obvious this thing will run on CPU cycles. The question is, will there be an audible difference between this, and say the Chaintech AV-710, or a Creative-based digital output?

My guess would be very little difference.

Yeah..I thought bit-perfect output was the same, regardless of the card. all of the processing is being done on the receiver anyway...

 

[knyghtbyte]

why dont you just go to creative and buy the breakout box for your Audigy2? (either internal or external)
then you get the full size SPDIF coax/opticals.......im sure it wont cost too much.....

 

[alcoholbob]

Mainly because the Audigy 2's digital out still resamples 44.1khz sources to 48khz.

 

[rstrohkirch]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
Mainly because the Audigy 2's digital out still resamples 44.1khz sources to 48khz.

Simply use a directsound resampling plugin for whatever music player you like. Set it to 48/16 or higher and you'll take care of most of the IMD and other issues that are introduced by the resampling process.

 

[alcoholbob]

I already use foobar for this, but I'd like in the future to completely avoid this, although I'm not sure if the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorom is the real reason . Resampling in a non-linear fashion seems to annoy me more.

 

[BW86]

Chaintech AV-710 flashed with Audiotrak Prodigy firmware :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[SteelGuy]

What do you guys mean by pure digital usage?

You can't use the analog connector that most comp speakers come with then right?
WHat would be the alternative? A reciever and bookshelfs or something??

 

[alcoholbob]

Gandhi...pure digital usage means, in recaping my previous posts:

1) Bit-perfect (44.1KHz/48KHz/96KHz/192KHz etc etc) digital output to a receiver
2) No DSPs like DDL - I don't really need it, since I have a stereo setup, and regardless DDL's bandwidth in 5.1 mode is about 130kbps (stereo); not exactly impressive. I don't want to have to worry about whether it is on or off and diluting the sound quality. Futher more, a lot of people who own the DDL cards say the digital mode is significantly more distorted than analog (and the analog mode is measurably worse than an Audigy 1!)
3) Something cheap so I'm not paying extra for expensive analog DACs like the XiFi since I am going all digital.

It's not I can't use the analog connector...I want to grow out of it. I'm tired of Creative's resampling, it affects music.

And...like I already said, I AM using bookshelves and a receiver. This is to facilitate it better than an analog sound card, since I am moving to an all digital amplifier/receiver.

 

[CSMR]

Do you already have the speakers or are you choosing them too? What's the total budget and how much are you allocating for sound card+amp?

 

[alcoholbob]

lol...I have a pair of Axiom M22tis and I'm not too proud of it, a Sony STR-DE597. It's rated 100x7, although the rear amplifier (240W) implies 40W/channel at most. Sound and Vision tested it at 36WPC with all channels driven.

I'm looking for an a replacement receiver in the mid $200 range. The reason is, anime DVDs tend to be extremely quiet--apart from the dialogue (Japanese is a flowing, quieter language than English) the music tends to be Eastern European Symphonic or traditional Japanese, and this requires a wide dynamic range. I find myself turning the receiver up so high I hear VERY LOUD hiss from the tweeters. Asside from the possible damage from clipping (from my maginificent 36WPC receiver), the hiss is extremely annoying and drowns out dialogue. Asside from anime movies, I listen to music primarily. My tastes are more laid back--jazz, symphonic, solo pop. I'm currently using Audigy 2, which resamples music (44.1KHz), and running it through 6-channel direct into the receiver. In the $200 range where the Panasonic SA-XR55s lie, most of the analog receivers aren't likely to put out more than 50WPC. The Onkyo SR-502 for example, puts out 47WPC continuous with all channels driven. The Panny's are tested to 77WPC with all channels driven, with a dual amp mode in stereo. Meaning theoretically, something like 300+W into two channels! Drool. The lower noise floor of digital also pulls me in.

Sound card? Whatever does SPDIF bitperfect passthrough. If I do go the Chaintech AV-710 and the Panny's, this should be about $300 final price. If the Chaintech nForce 3 PCI sound card with SPDIF already accomplishes this...which I don't know because I am having trouble finding documentation on the product..then just the Panny receiver will do.

 

[SteelGuy]

Thanks for the info jihad "astralite".

im thinking of getting a chaintech sound card since im using on board sound...
For 25 bucks...shouldn't be bad.

Looks like with that setup you got im in for a treat..

lol @ solo pop

 

[alcoholbob]

Better than Top Gun soundtrack ^o^

 

[alcoholbob]

Steelguy...you have Klipsch 2.0s right? I believe they only accept analog inputs. The only reason to go digital is to pass off the work to your receiver instead of your soundcard. A cheap analog card might be better off for you, particularly since you still play games, Creative's EAX might come in handy.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: Astrallite
I'm looking for an a replacement receiver in the mid $200 range. The reason is, anime DVDs tend to be extremely quiet--apart from the dialogue (Japanese is a flowing, quieter language than English) the music tends to be Eastern European Symphonic or traditional Japanese, and this requires a wide dynamic range. I find myself turning the receiver up so high I hear VERY LOUD hiss from the tweeters. Asside from the possible damage from clipping (from my maginificent 36WPC receiver), the hiss is extremely annoying and drowns out dialogue.

Hiss isn't clipping, so what you are doing shouldn't be very damaging for the speakers. The newer class D amplifiers (including the Panasonic SX-XR series) have virtually no noise floor - I had to put my ear to the speakers to hear anything with the two such amplifiers I have used.

In the $200 range where the Panasonic SA-XR55s lie, most of the analog receivers aren't likely to put out more than 50WPC. The Onkyo SR-502 for example, puts out 47WPC continuous with all channels driven. The Panny's are tested to 77WPC with all channels driven, with a dual amp mode in stereo. Meaning theoretically, something like 300+W into two channels! Drool. The lower noise floor of digital also pulls me in.

Passive bi-amping should increase the power somewhat, but not as much as double it. I don't know why you are so obsessed with power. You should find out how much you need, taking account of you speakers' efficiency and room dimensions.

Sound card? Whatever does SPDIF bitperfect passthrough. If I do go the Chaintech AV-710 and the Panny's, this should be about $300 final price. If the Chaintech nForce 3 PCI sound card with SPDIF already accomplishes this...which I don't know because I am having trouble finding documentation on the product..then just the Panny receiver will do.

Get a used Panasonic SA-XR amp is my advice and save the rest of the money to spend on speakers.

 

[alcoholbob]

I really don't feel the need to upgrade my speakers at this point ; )