Best current 1TB-1.5TB internal drive. . . .

Team Spicoli

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Used to be a Seagate fanboy, and I still am to an extent, however I've been impressed with Western Digital lately.

I'm looking to buy a few 1TB, or 1.5TB for media storage, to then use to stream off of a HTPC. So I'm assuming that eSata II ports are a must?!

Thanks in advance everyone!
 

mooseracing

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Mar 9, 2006
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The 1.5's seem to be having problems because of their young age. I would stick with the known 1TB's. Which for me are the Sammy F1's. I am using about 12 of them at work for backups everyday, so far only 1 arrived DOA, the others just keep chugging.
 

Team Spicoli

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Picked up a WD Caviar Green 1TB for around $80. . .we'll give it a try, and then look into those Sammy F1's, although if I recall correctly, I've read mixed reviews leaning more towards the negative. . .we'll see
 

shempf

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anyone that lasts the initial few months or one in a RAID 6 array.
the 320gb/640gb are probably near the top, excluding Enterprise drives.
 
Nov 26, 2005
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Originally posted by: shempf
anyone that lasts the initial few months or one in a RAID 6 array.
the 320gb/640gb are probably near the top, excluding Enterprise drives.

You mean the WD 320 & 640 drives? What is the total GB that comes after a format of the 640?

I'm trying to enlarge my storage capacity configuration and trying to get the most optimal drive storage structure to re-use when larger capacity drives come down in price. Right now, I have 1 500Gb drive mirrored to a RAID-0 2x500Gb structure. All the exact same drives (ST3500630NS) If I get one more of those drives and RAID 0 2x2 like RAID-0 mirrored to the other 2x2 in RAID-0 then my chances of loosing data = 4x but if I get a 1.5Tb drive and Mirror it to a 3x500Gb RAID-0 then my chances come down a bit...
 

JohnVM

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I have a couple 1TB seagate 7200.11 333's (*not* 340's) and love them. 119 apiece, so not the cheapest drives out there by any means atm, but 115MB/s sustained reads/writes per disk, pretty slick. I'm coming off a 74GB raptor to 2x1TB 333's for my OS drive and can honestly say I prefer the 333's. Might upgrade my raid array to 20 of these bad boys.
 

Team Spicoli

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Received the Caviar Green 1TB, and noticed that it was a 16MB cache vs 32MB. Should I have gone with 32MB for storing, and streaming Media files? I thought the drive was 32MB. I should be ok, right?
 

MalVeauX

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Dec 19, 2008
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Heya,

I have 1tb WD green drives. They're fantastic, and cheap. For storing and holding data for HTPC use (exactly what I do!), there's no reason to get a big performance drive (like the new Black Caviar 1tb WD drives, which are $130). I use both internal and external (though not USB). For internal, the greens are fine. For external, again, I use greens. They're fine. I use eSATA cables via my $20 controller card that has eSATA connections. It's just as fast as the internal drives. 5400rpm is perfectly fine for HTPC use.

As for cache, the difference is immeasurable. Benchies of 8 vs. 16mb cache differences revealed nothing. The difference of 16mb to 32mb again reveals nothing. Makes you wonder why it's there. Doesn't seem to do squat. And ultimately, if you're using big several gig sized files (like DVD's), that cache won't help anyways--it doesn't fit in the little 32mb cache, now does it. Anything over 8mb of cache will do you fine.

Anyhow, being a HTPC crazy person, I strongly recommend the WD green caviar 1tib flavor drives. They're quiet, cool, perform exactly as they should, require less power, and are at the $99 and under cost, making them $1 per gig essentially, and less, depending on where you buy them at. Great deal.

@Others: Note that RAID is a poor choice if you're looking to `backup.' RAID is about uptime or speed. RAID0 for speed. Every other RAID flavor is about uptime. Mirroring doesn't do anything for backups unless you physically take the drive out and replace it with a new one and mirror again. It's just cloned data to help `uptime' when a drive fails. RAID5 is about uptime, with no downtime. Drive fails, it still serves. The other RAID flavors are variations on that. If you want to backup data, because you're worried that a drive fail may result in lost data, you shouldn't be using RAID for that backup--just for use--and the backup should be on Tape drives or optical media or simply off-site via internet storage.

Very best,
 

kalrith

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2005
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Originally posted by: MalVeauX
Heya,

I have 1tb WD green drives. They're fantastic, and cheap. For storing and holding data for HTPC use (exactly what I do!), there's no reason to get a big performance drive (like the new Black Caviar 1tb WD drives, which are $130). I use both internal and external (though not USB). For internal, the greens are fine. For external, again, I use greens. They're fine. I use eSATA cables via my $20 controller card that has eSATA connections. It's just as fast as the internal drives. 5400rpm is perfectly fine for HTPC use.

As for cache, the difference is immeasurable. Benchies of 8 vs. 16mb cache differences revealed nothing. The difference of 16mb to 32mb again reveals nothing. Makes you wonder why it's there. Doesn't seem to do squat. And ultimately, if you're using big several gig sized files (like DVD's), that cache won't help anyways--it doesn't fit in the little 32mb cache, now does it. Anything over 8mb of cache will do you fine.

Anyhow, being a HTPC crazy person, I strongly recommend the WD green caviar 1tib flavor drives. They're quiet, cool, perform exactly as they should, require less power, and are at the $99 and under cost, making them $1 per gig essentially, and less, depending on where you buy them at. Great deal.

Very best,

Nice write-up. I'm planning to get a ~1TB drive for a linux system that will often have two HD programs written to the drive with a third recorded program (or one of the currently recording programs) being played on another linux box. That's roughly 4MB/sec being written and 2MB/sec being read all at the same time. Do you think the WD green drives are fast enough for that? If so, then the reduced energy consumption will be worth the reduced performance.
 

MalVeauX

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Dec 19, 2008
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Heya,

The drives sustain much higher rates than 4mb/s, and read much faster than 2mb/s. I benched my eSATA connected WD green drive with HDD tune and it had plenty of throughput to handle your needs. Of course, search google for more benchies to get an idea for yourself.

Very best,
 

Team Spicoli

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Thanks MalVeaux for the response/guidance!! Sounds like you're in the same arena as me with respect to HTPC.

How do you backup your media that is stored on the HDD's? I'm thinking of using DVD's for stuff that I want to preserve as much as possible, and external HDD's for everything else.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks again!
 

Team Spicoli

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Originally posted by: MalVeauX
Heya,

The drives sustain much higher rates than 4mb/s, and read much faster than 2mb/s. I benched my eSATA connected WD green drive with HDD tune and it had plenty of throughput to handle your needs. Of course, search google for more benchies to get an idea for yourself.

Very best,

Hey Mal,

Curious as to what your HTPC hardware consists of? Would you mind sharing?

Thanks
 

MalVeauX

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Dec 19, 2008
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Heya,

I keep as much as I can portable, so that I can switch to different PC's upon command. The key to a HTPC is simply to have the minimum it takes to display your media, or play the audio media. And it doesn't take much. Beyond that, it's all about storage and digitizing your media for access. I like one-click access to everything. I use my HTPC for DVD's. On the side, I also have a lot of lesser media, like photo albums, some music (lesser on the music, I use Pandora for music mainly) and older video files that I like to access. They don't take up nearly as much space as masses of stored digitized DVD's.

I don't backup my media. The original discs, etc, are the backup for me. I digitize my collections for use, not backup. If you're doing the opposite, then burning to DVD is perfectly fine. Just store them well and understand that over time, they can basically `go bad' on you. Backup on an HDD is also not a good idea for long term. Tape is a better backup system; costly to `start' a Tape backup, but ultimately the better way to go for long term. Granted, media is not so important that it needs a backup system. It just needs a fail safe; something to keep it from going away at a single crash. Essentially, `uptime' is the focus of a media based HTPC. Backup isn't such a big deal (at least to me). But in your case, putting your media on DVD and external HDD is an ok way to temporarily store things (just again, don't think of it as a backup, that can end up with you losing data still).

I have several PC's that do the job for me based on where I am. I make sure they have HDMI output (currently using an 8800gt on this one; I also game on it, so it's both an HTPC and a light gaming machine). I serve my media from several drives based on what I want, and I use eSATA not USB, because DVDs are large files and I like that it takes seconds to copy on eSATA to my 1tb Green drives, compared to USB which takes minutes and longer. The PC itself doesn't matter (any dualcore based system can essentially do it). I use an Auzentech 7.1 cinema xplosion for my surround sound output and again the 8800gt for gaming/video acceleration (it has PureHD from nVidia that works great in PowerDVD). I output to my 42" 1080p plasma and to my other 37" 1080p LCD via HDMI cables. My audio setup is an old DTT 5.1 desktop theater that I've had for like 8 years. I just keep it so that I can output 5.1 dolby digital live and display at 1080p on my HDTV's. For the actual storage of things, my primary drive for the computer I'm using currently is a RAID0 setup for the Os/Apps (and my games). But the media I serve hangs out on external eSATA drives (I don't store them internally, again, because if I want to change computers, I don't want to have to move internal drives around--plus, external drives can travel with me to friend's houses, share, etc, much more easily than some internal drive that will basically need a network connection to someone else to share from; not interested in that). I've been using the fantom drive series that contain the WD 1tb Green drives (5400rpm) with USB and eSATA. I use the eSATA connections via a $20 controller card that I put in the machine in a PCIe slot (it's an old rosewill controller card; they're perfectly fine, rosewill makes cheap stuff, but it's not all garbage. I use the Rosewill RC-214, it was $20, works great, and is fast and has great driver support and use).

Software wise, I use Vista64 for my OS. I mainly use DVDFab5 for digitizing my DVD collection. I use DaemonTools to mount my DVDs. I use autoplay of Windows to autoload my player upon mounting my DVD. My digitized DVDs are kept in a folder on the external drive, so I just switch it on when I want to go to HTPC mode essentially. DaemonTools has an automount feature and DVDFab5 backsup the DVD as a DVD. So when I double click an ISO (image file of the DVD), it automounts, windows sees a DVD is inserted, and autoplay launches my DVD player. I use Cyberlink PowerDVD 8 for DVD playback, because it has good HD support, uses nVidia's PureHD hardware (on all geforce series 8 and higher cards), and supports dolby digital which my Auzentek 7.1 xplosion outputs to my reciever/speakers. I use VLC (video lan player) for other video formats. I use Winamp for music, but mainly, I just listen to Pandora.com for whatever music I want since my taste changes too often for me to care to keep volumes of digitized music that I don't listen to).

Very best,
 

Team Spicoli

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Thanks again Mal! Wow, that was extensive, and much appreciated!

I apologize to others for deviating from the main subject of this thread, I guess tangents can't be helped at times.

My thing is Mal, that I do not want to keep the majority of store-bought dvd's, they take up too much physical space. I'd rather be able to "back them up" (I think you refer to this as "digitizing"), and then either sell the originals, or trade them in. So my main concern is how best to preserve the digitized copies I would then have for many years?! I can already hear some saying "well, don't sell/trade them!!!"

I think you've already addressed my concern by conveying the notion that with respect to media, when combined with the steady technological advancements, years down the road, what works best for now may end up being obsolete.

So I think I've narrowed down my storage options to external drives (for now), and Western Digital appears to be the way to go.

Mal, you mentioned that "uptime" was a key element of maintaining a solid HTPC, how does one best maintain "uptime" with respect to storage? Also, I didn't quite fully understand what you meant by having the "minimum it takes to display" media? Please give me an example.

Thanks Mal
 

Team Spicoli

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Sorry, forgot one other question, what do you mean by "mounting the DVD"? I too use DVDFab5, and once the copy is done, then I can just click on the Video ISO in the folder, and it commences playing. Maybe my software is automatically mounting?? I've never heard of this before.
 

Team Spicoli

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One more thing, why Auzentek for audio vs Creative Labs?

Sorry again to anyone searching this thread for the best 1-1.5TB drive, especially given I started this thread!! To sum things up for anyone browsing the thread, it appears that currently, Wester Digital Caviar Green 1TB drives are the way to go for general media storage. 1.5TB drives still have kinks that need to be worked out, but I don't anticipate that taking very long.
Thanks everyone!
 

MalVeauX

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Dec 19, 2008
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Heya,

When I mentioned the minimum it takes to be a HTPC, I was referring to the appropriate video/audio hardware needed to output to your display and speakers. In my case, I use the series 8 Geforce for the PureHD hardware decoding of DVD in my software player Cyberlink PowerDVD 8 (supports HD content); and audio wise, I use the dolby digital encoding/decoding hardware power of an Auzentech 7.1 Cinema Explosion sound card to output dolby digital audio to my reciever for my 5.1 home theater setup, and it's dolby digital live encoding feature to encode non-5.1 content into 5.1 (like stereo music, old videos, etc; encodes them to 5.1 dolby digital and outputs them that way; great feature to enrichen 2 channel music/audio).

Uptime in a HTPC essentially concerns a system that has all the drives internal. In that sort of case, a great way to go is RAID5 with 3 hard drives (minimum req). How it works, is that it writes parity to the drives and you get combined storage of two of the drives. RAID5's parity gives you drive failure tolerance without destroying the RAID array and thus losing data. You can watch movies, whatever, and if one of the drives fails, it will let you know, but will not turn off or lose data, it rebuilds the data on the drive that failed via the parity that was written to the other drives (this is what RAID5 does). Then you just replace the damaged/failed drive with a new one, and the RAID5 array rebuilds and writes the parity data to the new drive and you're back to normal--without even shutting off the system. That's uptime. The added benefit is that you see the RAID5 array as a single drive on the computer (instead of multiple drives). So if you bought 3x 1tb drives in a RAID5 configuration, it would have 2tb storage as a single drive that your OS would see, and it would allow for one drive to fail (any one drive in that array) and still work and not lose data. This is not for backing up (though some use it) since two drive fails means you lose the data, but it is a good way to maintain uptime, ie, allow for a fail to happen and not have to redo it all, since you can replace the drive and the data gets rebuilt from parity on the other drives. It's a handy way to maintain a massive storage capacity while allowing for a single hard drive failure to occur and not immediately lose data because of it.

In your situation, you mentioned you'd like to backup to HDD and just get rid of your original discs; that's ok. I know the feeling. If you store the data on a single HDD, that drive hast he potential to fail and you lose that data permanently--the same way an internal single drive can fail, an external does the same thing. In your case, a RAID5 (3 minimum drives, allows one to fail before losing data) or RAID6 (4 minimum drives, allows 2 to fail before losing data) would be more appropriate for long term use/storage of media files. It's more elaborate, more expensive, and takes up more physical space than a single external drive of course, but if you want to try to protect a bit against physical drive fails and the loss of data without going into more long term backup approaches (optimal writes, tape, etc), it's a way to keep your data ticking with some fault tolerance. RAID is all about redundancy and uptime, ie, lets you combine storage capacity from several inexpensive drives and spread data around them so that one can fail and not lose data due to bits of data striped across them all (that is what RAID5/6 do; RAID0 is zero tolerance, just speed; RAID1 is mirror, it just copies what is on the disc to another disc in a 1:1 ratio).

I mount digitized DVDs via DaemonTools. I don't backup DVDs are vob/folders. I back them up as Image Files (.ISO). Then I use software like DaemonTools to emulate a DVD drive and mount digital images to that emulated DVD drive (the result is, no DVD drive is there, no disc is in it, but the computer thinks it has a DVD drive with a disc in it--all from a digital source, but the computer sees it as hardware). Your software is also automatically mounting. I simply use separate software for separate jobs. DVDFab5 for the decode/rip/copy, DaemonTools for my emulation & mounting of optical media hardware & disc images, and PowerDVD 8 for my DVD playback.

Creative Labs is not the only maker of soundcards and they're not top quality either. They have some nice cards, but they have very bloated software with their drivers and frankly, there are many other audio solutions out there to explore. Asus & M-audio for example simply have better sounding output to my ears than a Creative card. Ultimately, I went with the Auzentech 7.1 Cinema Explosion because for the price, it had the quality I wanted, the output capabilities, the hardware decoding and encoding of dolby digital and sony DTS content, and it has dolby digital live which allows me to real time hardware encode any audio to 5.1 dolby digital for output to my receiver; makes nice for stereo/mono music and older video/audio content output). What matters is what you prefer, sound wise, and what covers your needs. There are many cards and solutions out there; CreativeLabs is not the top dog nor the best choice (years ago, they were unmatched, but now, they're not--they lost a lot of their place when Vista rolled out and they failed to catch up to Vista, other audio makers came in and replaced them fast with good support).

Very best,
 

MalVeauX

Senior member
Dec 19, 2008
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Heya,

Just a rewind on something we talked about earlier; you asked about various speeds. I have 3 things to show then, test wise, using the drives I'm literally talking about. I'm using CrystalDiskMark2.2 to benchmark the drive(s) since it's nice freeware, and measures what actually matters (burst and max transfer rates don't matter really). Settings are left at CrystalDiskMark's defaults (5 tests of a 100mb file).

External 1Tb Green WD drive (5400rpm) connected via eSATA through that $20 PCIe controller card that gives me eSATA ports; Rosewill RC-214.
Sequential Read: 81.22MB/s
Sequential Write: 75.12MB/s

External 1Tb Green WD drive (5400rpm) connected via USB (the same exact drive, tested via USB instead of eSATA).
Sequential Read: 33.46MB/s
Sequential Write: 33.11MB/s

As you can see, USB limits your drive's actual speed. Getting a 7200rpm drive and using it via USB makes zero sense, as you get no benefit in speed. The only time 7200rpm matters over 5400rpm when talking about USB is seek/access time, the 7200rpm's faster spindle will speed that up by a few milliseconds, which is pointless with large files, but if copying hundreds of tiny files (like images) it helps speed things up. In the above test, USB was half the speed of eSATA. For $20, that's a nice increase. The cool thing is that the drive allows you to connect via both ways, so you can eSATA at home, and USB on the go if you need.

And just to test External USB again, I'll attach a 250gig WD 5400rpm Passport drive (it's totally powered via USB and transfers via USB):
Sequential Read: 32.50MB/s
Sequential Write: 31.74MB/s

Basically the same speed as the TB drive. USB limits your speeds, no matter what. So again, if purchasing an external HDD and planning on USB, paying more for 7200rpm drives isn't really going to do anything (again, unless you specifically use it for lots of tiny files). If you're storing large files (files that are all in multiple megabytes to gigabytes in size) then you'll notice zero difference over USB with 5400rpm compared to 7200rpm.

Finally, one last test, to show the difference between a capable HDD, USB, and those little high capacity flash drives (thumb drives, USB flash devices, that can store gigs of data):

USB flash drive, PNY 4Gig Attache Jump Drive (same tests as above).
Sequential Read: 18.21MB/s
Sequential Write: 10.08MB/s

The point of that test was just to show, drives on USB are indeed fast, so if you've ever used a flash drive device and thought it was a little slow, that's because they are slow. An HDD on the same USB connection is nearly twice as fast on reads and three times as fast on writes. Big difference. BUT, this is STILL fast enough to watch a digitized DVD from! More than fast enough! So that question about speeds, hopefully, this will cover enough of it that you'll see that you will not have to worry about speed of the discs you're using, at all, when it comes to serving media to yourself (serving to several people at once is a different matter though!!).

Note: these speeds are MORE than enough to handle media serving, like playing DVD's and music. So you don't have to worry about eSATA at all. USB will work fine for your needs as you stated them. But, just to note, it'll take longer to copy to the drive via USB, and when talking about 1Tb of data, that's a long, long time to copy all those DVD files. If you're ok with leaving it for a few hours on USB to copy great; otherwise, that's where eSATA can really shine, allowing you to speedy copy things as you go.

Very best,
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
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Just to give you a quick explanation on USB vs esata.

If your using USB, it doesnt really matter how fast or what kind of HDD you're using because your HDD will be faster than your connection. But if you're using esata, theoretically it now has the same connection speeds as if it was an internal drive and nothing is faster than something that is internal, not even Firewire 800.
 

Team Spicoli

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Hey Mal,
I can't PM you, so I have to use this thread (hope you're still tuned in).

I've tried in other posts to get a consensus on the best motherboard, and videocard to get.

I'm leaning towards Intel because I believe they currently can better handle Hi-Def content. What do you recommend? I intend on multi-tasking simultaneously between streaming media content, web-surfing (multiple browers), and downloading torrents.

Also, it was recommended in another post that I look for a motherboard with an integrated chip set that outputs full multichannel PCM audio over HDMI.

Thanks Mal!!