Best CRT for Gaming

[L8CS]

Aperture Grille or Invar Shadow Mask, what do you think and why?

 

[AMDPwred]

I've never heard of either.

 

[L8CS]

I should clarify my post. I was referring to the specific type of CRT which is either Shadow Mask or the Aperture Grille.

I'll edit my title

 

[Salvador]

AG all the way. You can't beat a 21" FD Trinitron/Diamondtron for gaming.

Sal

 

[Gosharkss]

I never trust general statements like "aperture grill monitors are clearer and brighter the shadow mask monitors" or ?shadow mask has sharper text?. Every unit produced is unique and, like fingerprints, no two are identical. Even the highest quality monitors occasionally don't perform as promised.

The type of tube is only one aspect of monitor performance. The ability to display fine detail on a computer monitor involves many factors including video amplifier bandwidth, spot size/shape and convergence. Convergence IMHO is more important than the type of tube used. It determines how sharp the characters in your text document or spreadsheet look. Convergence has a direct effect on the monitor's apparent focus. Unfortunately, convergence is a spec that few manufacturers publish.

Categorizing a technology based on a single component is very short sighted and in practices meaningless.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

 

[Atlantean]

Personally, I like AG, but there are others who like shadow mask better. The best thing to do would be to go into a store such as best buy and look at each type.

 

[L8CS]

<<The type of tube is only one aspect of monitor performance>>

Gosharkss.........

I just shot an email off to Monitorsdirect asking about the difference between the two tubes, awaiting a reply.

Since I just got screwed out of the Hitachi CM772 I ordered on Monday, I'm shopping again. The Cornerstone p2460 looks pretty darn good and the price is right but Dell just cut the price on their P991 which makes it almost even money with the p2460. What do you think?

 

[MasterHoss]

I'd vote for AG as well....like someone else said earlier...Sony's FD Trinitron or Mitsubishi's Diamondtron NF technologies seem to win...of which, I prefer the FD Trinitron for gaming b/c I think they produce a little bit of a more vibrant picture.

 

[HexVector]

If you can deal with the two faint lines across your screen (caused by stablizer wires of some sort) its generally better to go with Aperture Grille.
As Gosharkss, its only one factor so look at the price vs. quality overall.

 

[Gosharkss]

<< <<The type of tube is only one aspect of monitor performance>>

Gosharkss.........

I just shot an email off to Monitorsdirect asking about the difference between the two tubes, awaiting a reply.

Since I just got screwed out of the Hitachi CM772 I ordered on Monday, I'm shopping again. The Cornerstone p2460 looks pretty darn good and the price is right but Dell just cut the price on their P991 which makes it almost even money with the p2460. What do you think? >>



We usually respond within 24 hours and in fact I just sent you an e-mail.

Sorry to hear about the problem with Dell, personally I would hold them to the discounts and ask for the p991 at that price.

Thanks for considering my products, and as you know I'm biased. We just introduced the p2460 this week. It is the sister product of our p2450, the difference being the p2460 has higher resolution and refresh rate capabilities.

If you like the p991 the p2460 is comparable. I have sent you some side by side comparisons of the two via e-mail. I hope they help.

 

[L8CS]

<<If you can deal with the two faint lines across your screen>>

From what I understand, the lines are only apparent against a white background, so in a gaming environment with dark backgrounds, would the lines blend in?

 

[L8CS]

<<If you like the p991 the p2460 is comparable>>

Thanks for the email. The side by side comparisons are a great tool.

I know it's hard to compete with the big boys with S&H and tax but you make up with it with the warranty.
Thanks for the help.

 

[HexVector]

True, in games you would not notice or even pay attention to the lines, only on light backgrounds like this forum would it become apparent.

 

[Dormant]

I have been using flat crts for a year and after the first week you dont even notice the lines. Now I see regular CRTs and they look terrible compared to any Flat monitor that I have seen.

 

[L8CS]

I read somewhere that the Flat Crt's have another piece of glass inside the case in front of the Crt that flattens the sceen out and can effect the brightness on Shadow Mask tubes. Am I to assume that AG tubes don't have the same problem and that's why their colors are brighter?

 

[HexVector]

Actually, I'm on a shadow mask CRT that is a flat screen. Yes truly flat glass. The difference between in shadow mask and AG is not the flat screen.

The difference is in AG, it uses vertical wires to mask while the shadow mask is just a plate with holes, the closer the holes are to each other the better the quality or dot pitch.

Read this: http://www.acercm.com.tw/global/service/crt/faq.htm

or: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/pcdir/content/2001/05/peripherals/bg-monitors/crtvlcd-bp.html

 

[L8CS]

I know about the basic construction principals between the SM and the AG tubes but what I'm wondering about is if the AG tubes construction disallows the use of the another flat piece of glass as a barrier or if the AG and the SM trully flat tubes construction don't require the use a seperate piece.

 

[L8CS]

<<The difference is in AG, it uses vertical wires to mask while the shadow mask is just a plate with holes, the closer the holes are to each other the better the quality or dot pitch. >>

Thanks for the link.

I guess it's still apples and oranges because there's no one type of Crt that's best in every environment. It looks like you can the same comparable resolutions and refresh rates in either tube so it comes down to personal preference.

 

[elimcpheron]

im with shadow mask, i have a 19 inch viewsonic g90f perfectflat and i love it

 

[Demonicon]

I like AG myself, the stabilizer wires are a non-factor except on the Anand forums(and you can change that). I've never ever noticed them in a game.

LG Electronics has an interesting Flatron series, a mixture of AG and shadow mask(no wires) LG Electronics Flatron 915FT Plus, check em out.

 

[L8CS]

The selection of stores that have side by side comparisons in my area is very limited, so I can't make direct comparisons. The stores carry the generic Viewsonics, Princetons, Sylvanias etc; so I have to research my selections online and utilze the experience of others. It would be great to walk into a store and find fifty monitors of all makes and sizes, lined up against a wall like TV's at Circuit City and all displaying the same image. But alas, those days are gone.

I have had a Mag DX15 monitor and my current Viewsonic GS771 and G773. I thought all three were decent monitors when I bought them but I can't help wondering if there is something better out there. I guess it's just personal nature to want the best bang for the buck.

 

[NotoriousJTC]

<< From what I understand, the lines are only apparent against a white background, so in a gaming environment with dark backgrounds, would the lines blend in? >>



In my previous experience with AG monitors, the line can be apparent in any relatively light background, including light blue (typcial windows default background) and light green, among other colors....

In gaming i would imagine that it would be hard to notice the wires since one would be too impersed in a game to focus on them.

 

[L8CS]

Actually, I'm shopping for my sixteen year old son. He has the GS771 with a GF3 Ti500, which I just upgraded from a Tnt2 Ultra. The card upgrade did improve his 2d text and overall graphics but something still missing and that's why I'm looking for a new tube. 80% to 90% of his use is multiplayer and the rest is Icq chat with popups. The upgrade was significant but I want a sharper picture and higher res. and refresh rates. I've never had a AG tube, so I don't have a baseline to compare to.

 

[Gosharkss]

<< <<The difference is in AG, it uses vertical wires to mask while the shadow mask is just a plate with holes, the closer the holes are to each other the better the quality or dot pitch. >>

Thanks for the link.

I guess it's still apples and oranges because there's no one type of Crt that's best in every environment. It looks like you can the same comparable resolutions and refresh rates in either tube so it comes down to personal preference. >>



The construction of flat CRTs is simple, they add more glass in the corners to flatten the face. This is done on both AG and SM tubes. The difference in the glass thickness makes the unit appear to have a concave look to them.

You see the concave affect because you're looking at the sides and corners at an angle (and therefore through a different thickness of glass) as opposed to looking straight through the center of the glass. Conventional tubes (Shadow Mask) curved in two directions do not suffer from this phenomenon because the thickness of the glass is uniform over the entire screen. Flat CRT monitors are just as susceptible to geometric distortion as slightly curved CRTs. In fact you can argue that they have more distortion due to the refractive index of the glass creating a concave look.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

 

[cyclones]

Thanks for the warning of the two white lines on screen.
This is a gaming nightmare!.
I am producing a game that this very thing could affect.
The game is set in the Arctic in Winter during a snow storm.
Two teams of Polar Bears throw Snowballs at each other
whilst keeping behind their own lines....White of course!