Best Bet on an AiO cooler for Haswell/Broadwell-E or Skylake?

[BonzaiDuck]

I have to decide among the possibilities for an AiO cooler, preferring that it be "custom-izable" for expansion or replacement. None of the prices for AiO coolers I've seen are prohibitive; some could seem a better bargain than others. I can't sacrifice reliability for performance, but I want performance near the top of the heap in some very inclusive comparison review, some often linked in to Frosty Tech's web-site.

The H240 X2 and even the H220 X2 have poor customer reviews, and the tally of all reviews shows a lack of popularity. But the units have a copper-brass radiator, there's a fill-port, and one could think a user would go through some sample of tribulations that builders of custom watercooled rigs experience as routine in the process of getting things to work. I don't know. Someone could comment about my guess.

The Corsair Hydro H115i has more reviews, or about 74 of them at the Egg and considerably more than the others. It has 89% favorable reviews of 4 and 5*'s.

It has an aluminum radiator.

Then there's the EKWB Predator 240. Like the H240 X and X2, it was also built for expandability, but I heard there was either a recall or a defect EK would only have chosen to address. But what's the latest on these?

The chosen cooler must fit in the drive-cage of a Stacker 830, or optionally within a Corsair Vengeance C70. While the H115i is a compatible option in Corsair's list, it does not preclude using one or more of the others. As for the Stacker, it allows for a 140mm square fan inside the cage with 1/8" or so clearance on each side. At maximum, the length of the assembly shouldn't exceed 300mm if I need to use two 5.25" drive-bays for external access -- hot-swap, switches, USB3 ports, optical drives or LED panels.

Customer reviews always reflect a larger percentage of negatives if consumers have more reason to complain. A QC sample may show a smaller percentage. However, complaints of a similar nature would either forwarn of impossible problems, or indicate procedures for correcting those problems before fully deploying the cooler.

 

[ClockHound]

Using (alleged) customer reviews from sales sites as basis for purchase is a little optimistic ....you might be making the assumption that user reviews are fair, balanced and could never be subverted by commercial interests. Pretty sure that's how it works on the internet. :biggrin:

If you don't mind a disposable product with lots of noise, low flow pumps and crappy high fpi aluminum rads, Corsair is a great choice.

At least the EK and Swiftech AIOs start with decent components that can be build out to a custom loop. The CLC products (mostly all Asetek clones) don't offer that option. They use inferior components and perform worse than the top air coolers when operating at sane noise levels.

The initial O-ring QA issues with EK Preds were resolved. Had an original 240 that leaked, but the V1.1 replacement was fine.

Hopefully, aigomorla, will wash up here with his authoritative liquid voice to calm the troubled AIO waters.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Using (alleged) customer reviews from sales sites as basis for purchase is a little optimistic ....you might be making the assumption that user reviews are fair, balanced and could never be subverted by commercial interests. Pretty sure that's how it works on the internet. :biggrin:

If you don't mind a disposable product with lots of noise, low flow pumps and crappy high fpi aluminum rads, Corsair is a great choice.

At least the EK and Swiftech AIOs start with decent components that can be build out to a custom loop. The CLC products (mostly all Asetek clones) don't offer that option. They use inferior components and perform worse than the top air coolers when operating at sane noise levels.

The initial O-ring QA issues with EK Preds were resolved. Had an original 240 that leaked, but the V1.1 replacement was fine.

Hopefully, aigomorla, will wash up here with his authoritative liquid voice to calm the troubled AIO waters.

Yes, there's always the chance that posts in customer reviews aren't from "customers." Even ignoring that would be "optimistic." I'm sure, for instance, that obtaining 15% bad reviews, even if they show a tell-tale consistency in particular problems, would correspond to a much lower QC finding from a sample prior to shipment.

On the other hand, lab-test reviewers may or may not note needing to replace a defective test unit, although they sometimes do mention it.

I was inclined toward the "custom" kits like the H240 x2 or the EKWB Predator, just for the reasons you cited about components. At the same time, they require the same maintenance you'd apply with a custom-water rig. And -- truly I would suspect -- the other AiOs should be considered "throw-away."

Aigo and others could recall that this is a bigger step for me now. I'd read or investigated prospects for exotic solutions like evaporative cooling, and I've been thinking about what to do in this regard for a few years now. My air-cooled approaches to ongoing systems have been just fine for my needs.

So to gain a better advantage, I have to accept that even the best of the WC parts will only last so long, and require extra attention. But sooner or later, I'll feel compelled to pull the string.

 

[YBS1]

I think you'd be happy with either the Swiftech or the EK. I can't speak as to the EK, but if you get the Swiftech, do yourself a favor and immediately drain and flush the coolant. I'm pretty sure they fill it with sewer water from whatever country they are assembled in. You should have seen the nasty crap that was gunked up in mine.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I think you'd be happy with either the Swiftech or the EK. I can't speak as to the EK, but if you get the Swiftech, do yourself a favor and immediately drain and flush the coolant. I'm pretty sure they fill it with sewer water from whatever country they are assembled in. You should have seen the nasty crap that was gunked up in mine.

Slovenia. I think they're made in Slovenia.

And that's what I thought. You can buy it as an "AiO," but you're best to treat it as a custom affair by replacing the coolant and testing extensively before putting it in the case with $1,000 in parts.

As it has always been for me and given previous questions I'd asked in recent years, I'm more inclined to re-deploy a case than buy a new one. But we need to dump the case for the oldest computer in the house -- a C2D in a 1990's Gateway full-tower. [This proves that you can build a computer that stays cool and reliable with just about any old SECC steel chassis. Unless looks really matter . . . ]

So the Vengeance C70 is in my sights for at least a few reasons. And I think there's potential in the old Stacker 830. Either way, I don't think I'll need to get out my Dremel and cutting tools.

But there's something else. Looking at more and more comparison reviews that include either the Swiftech or the EKWB, there seem to be a few heatpipe air-coolers that are within 5 to 10C of matching these AiOs. So if you bought the CPU from Silicon Lottery de-lidded/re-lidded with a better liquid-metal TIM, it would reduce any priority to improve cooling.

Sooner or later, I'll get this all sorted out. the H240 x2 has a reservoir, which is a plus over the EK. Decisions, decisions . . .

 

[ClockHound]

Slovenia. I think they're made in Slovenia.

EK is from Slovenia.

Swiftech is from 'Murica.

 

[ClockHound]

But there's something else. Looking at more and more comparison reviews that include either the Swiftech or the EKWB, there seem to be a few heatpipe air-coolers that are within 5 to 10C of matching these AiOs. So if you bought the CPU from Silicon Lottery de-lidded/re-lidded with a better liquid-metal TIM, it would reduce any priority to improve cooling.

Sooner or later, I'll get this all sorted out. the H240 x2 has a reservoir, which is a plus over the EK. Decisions, decisions . . .

Yes, as you know, with good intake/exhaust air flow to a top tier air cooler, it can perform within a few degrees of most AIOs, for less cost and usually less noise.

And with an air cooler there's pretty much less maintenance - altho the real airheads will bleed the air off their coolers every few months and replace it with fresh cold boutique air from the Swiss Alps.

 

[aigomorla]

I'm pretty sure they fill it with sewer water from whatever country they are assembled in. You should have seen the nasty crap that was gunked up in mine.

AHAHAHAHAHA its called Hydrex, and its proply glycol or ethyl glycol which solidifies and turns gunky because they were designed for much higher temps and not the temps we use it for.

:biggrin:

I am +1 for the swiftech AIO if your that scared to piece out a full custom set.

But there's something else. Looking at more and more comparison reviews that include either the Swiftech or the EKWB, there seem to be a few heatpipe air-coolers that are within 5 to 10C of matching these AiOs. So if you bought the CPU from Silicon Lottery de-lidded/re-lidded with a better liquid-metal TIM, it would reduce any priority to improve cooling.

thats because most AIO's are not bleed right.
Meaning air pockets inside the radiator which lowers efficency paired up with a extremely poor pump and poor base plate for heat exchange. Add to the fact its mostly antifreeze inside as coolant which isnt very efficient, and paired off with poor fans where u can blow more static, yeah, air coolers will match performance on these poor units.

a properly bleed system will not have air pockets inside the radiator where most of your heat exchange is done, and will have a decient pump to give you a good flow rate along with a micropin base plate which will increase turbulence + heat exchange area in which the cpu block transfers heat. However those cpu blocks end up costing almost as much the entire AIO itself.

Also fans are very important, which is why i am a firm advocate of not using 140mm radiators, due to the poor selection of fans over 120mm.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

AHAHAHAHAHA its called Hydrex, and its proply glycol or ethyl glycol which solidifies and turns gunky because they were designed for much higher temps and not the temps we use it for.

:biggrin:

I am +1 for the swiftech AIO if your that scared to piece out a full custom set.



thats because most AIO's are not bleed right.
Meaning air pockets inside the radiator which lowers efficency paired up with a extremely poor pump and poor base plate for heat exchange. Add to the fact its mostly antifreeze inside as coolant which isnt very efficient, and paired off with poor fans where u can blow more static, yeah, air coolers will match performance on these poor units.

a properly bleed system will not have air pockets inside the radiator where most of your heat exchange is done, and will have a decient pump to give you a good flow rate along with a micropin base plate which will increase turbulence + heat exchange area in which the cpu block transfers heat. However those cpu blocks end up costing almost as much the entire AIO itself.

Also fans are very important, which is why i am a firm advocate of not using 140mm radiators, due to the poor selection of fans over 120mm.

It's not so much fear for piecing out a full custom set. I could still pick a custom-part radiator, one of those dual D5 reservoirs, the block, tubing and fittings.

It's the work and detours that could arise the defers this. I'm more intent on keeping five or six machines in working order than beating somebody's LN2 overclock.

If I were rich AND lazy, I could shell out $3,000+ for the "build-it" hardpipe watercooled project in Maximum PC July16, or I could buy the $3,700 Origin PC Millennium which still -- still -- uses a 360mm AiO cooler!

Instead, I'm looking at both my own obsession with desktop computers and the building of them against mainstreamer mobile migration. And I'm also looking at what has developed since the days some guy hollowed out the inside of a copper block with the drill to make a waterblock. And I'm looking at the thermal profiles of the trend in processor designs.

If I chose one of the prior E-processors or even the latest Broadwell-E, I would be tilting toward the water with more enthusiasm.

But -- instead of talking AigoMorla's ear off and getting recommendations on a zillion parts to reduce my search for purchases, I'll probably try the Swiftech H240 X2. And not just the X2 -- but the freaking "Prestige." I'm a gardener; I work with hose fittings all the time, and you have to keep an eye on them all the time.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

. . . . And also . . . . as I said, being lazy -- I'm planning to get a vinyl tub and wads of TP to absorb any leaks. Then I'll hook it all up to a spare SATA/Molex on one of the systems with a sidepanel off, and run it for several days before installing.

I haven't done enough, but I've read enough over the years!

 

[YBS1]

I'll probably try the Swiftech H240 X2. And not just the X2 -- but the freaking "Prestige." I'm a gardener; I work with hose fittings all the time, and you have to keep an eye on them all the time.

Actually, those fittings they use on the base version are pretty awesome. I've since tried to find a way to buy them outright but Swiftech doesn't sell them and I've yet to locate any identical to them. Don't get me wrong, I like the "bling" of compression fittings as well, but functionally those full swivel barbs they use are top notch.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Actually, those fittings they use on the base version are pretty awesome. I've since tried to find a way to buy them outright but Swiftech doesn't sell them and I've yet to locate any identical to them. Don't get me wrong, I like the "bling" of compression fittings as well, but functionally those full swivel barbs they use are top notch.

I'll file that away for further consideration.

I have quick-release fittings in my garden. Because of the hard water characteristic here where I live, the deposits build up on the fittings and they either become frozen and difficult to release or they begin to leak. And the older they are, the more they're inclined to leak anyway.

It would seem that a coolant of distilled water purity would all but eliminate those maintenance problems. I'm looking again at the EKWB Predator, and need to compare the capacities of the Swiftech and EKWB fully-filled loops. The EK doesn't have a reservoir or much of one that's visible/accessible, but that radiator is 43mm thick and all copper.