Best bang for the buck

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
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I am looking to upgrade a few componants of my computer. I am doing the motherboard, CPU and Ram. My budget is about $450, currently I have a Athlon 800mhz on a A7V. I am open to move Intel if the performance is better. But I doubt it will since I can not afford a 533fsb P4.

On a side not, how does Windows XP react to having a new motherboard, ram and CPU installed without a format. It should just plug in and work, right? I have the same question for Win98se since I will be moving the origional componants to another computer.

-Thanks
 

microAmp

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2000
5,988
110
106
Originally posted by: Franz316
I am looking to upgrade a few componants of my computer. I am doing the motherboard, CPU and Ram. My budget is about $450, currently I have a Athlon 800mhz on a A7V. I am open to move Intel if the performance is better. But I doubt it will since I can not afford a 533fsb P4.

On a side not, how does Windows XP react to having a new motherboard, ram and CPU installed without a format. It should just plug in and work, right? I have the same question for Win98se since I will be moving the origional componants to another computer.

-Thanks

Format the HDD.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
126
if you can get a 1.6A or 1.8A P4 for a good deal (1.6A is discontinued) you can overclock to around 2.4ghz or more. they will run 533Mhz FSb or higher if you set the FSB to 133 or higher ;-P
 

SolrFlare24

Member
Feb 13, 2002
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0
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Yeah the 1.6a p4s and 1.8a p4s will run at a 133fsb overclocked without needing to even increase the voltage to them...1.6a's are going up in price because of being discontinued but you can find either in the $130 price range and like I said should be able to at least bump them up to a 133fsb no problem probably as high as a 140 or 150 fsb with a bump up in voltage.

As for Windows XP handling a new mobo...it *might* but in general I always recommend a backup then reformat with any new mobo anyway.
 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
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So what is a good overclocking motherboard for a 1.8a P4. And I am assuming it will put up similer benchmark scores as the reviewed 2.5b CPU. I'm not much of an overclocking guy but is it as easy as just ajusting the fsb in the bios or does the multiplier have to be ajusted too. Will the factory heatsink work with the increased heat?
 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
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oh forgot, will the MB be able top accept 1066 ram or does it take something else, I don't know much about Intel stuff anymore...
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
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Remember that overclocking is not a sure thing, despite what a lot of people will tell you. I'll agree that most 1.6A and 1.8A chips can go pretty high, but you might get one that can't. Just something I'd keep in mind.

Here's my recommendations (Intel and AMD, all prices from Newegg.com)

AMD System

Epox 8K3A+ KT333 with RAID: $120
Athlon XP 2000+ Retail: $142
512 megs Samsung PC2700: $170

Total: $432

Intel System

Epox 4G4A+ 845G with RAID: $138
Pentium 4 1.8A Retail: $165 or 1.6A Retail: $160
512 megs Samsung PC2700: $170

Total: $473 or $468

Either would be a good choice. The reason I put both the 1.6A and the 1.8A is that the 1.6A is supposed to overclock better (and it hits faster bus speeds at the same clockspeed, so it will be slightly faster for a given speed than the 1.8A overclocked). But the 1.8A is faster stock and it's only $5 more. As far as Intel or AMD, keep in mind that the Intel system will probably overclock pretty far, but it will also cost you a little more. If you want a sure thing, go with the AMD system. At stock speeds it will be faster and it's a little cheaper. But your choice.

As for Windows XP and a new mobo, I'd say reinstall. I've had issues with other Windows versions not liking a new motherboard, and I don't see why Windows XP would be different. But you can always give it a try and see what happens.
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,731
155
106
Just update the bios on that motherboard and throw in an athlon xp cpu
that would be the cheepest way to go and still be a powerful upgrade
I am running an athlon xp in my a7v
since the 266fsb isn't supported by that board's chipset the cpu will run underclocked unless you unlock the cpu
i got an athlonxp 1700+ running at 1.1ghz and undervolted
nice and cool/quiet

that road would allow you to enjoy your current hardware longer
and would cost less than a whole new P4 system
have fun
 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
136
I have decided to go with the AMD system because it is cheaper and it is faster stock, I am not much of an overclocker.

I have 2 hard drives installed right now, basicly what I'm asking is what is the best way to backup then restore every thing on the current harddrive. I really don't want to lose any files or programs at all. Is there a way to do this?Could I just format the current Windows HD and move everything I need to the the second one or is there another way. Basicly what I'm asking is what is the best way to backup then restore every thing on the current harddrive.
 

HelzBelz

Member
Jul 31, 2002
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I have to say that I like Soulkeeper's idea "... athlonxp 1700+ running at 1.1ghz and undervolted..."; cheap, fast and QUIET ! Keep your money for the next big technological step (AMD's Barton or Hammer) OR the next big Intel price cut... Just my thought...

Anyhow, when you do replace your motherboard/CPU, there are two solutions :

1) Yes, it is possible to directly use your previous OS/hard drive (without a fresh install) to power up your new mobo, but the overall trouble you'll have to go through to make it a smooth transition is a pain :
It involves de-installing all the devices related to your old mobo (through the "system" control panel), including removing the related registry entries which didn't get removed automatically ("regedit" anyone...); not forgetting the IDE, AGP, PCI, ACPI, and other chipset related devices/drivers, plus finding and erasing any mention of the above in all the ".inf" files... oh, yes, and any actual PCI and AGP cards as well, drivers and all (your new mobo will probably not allocate the same resources to the cards, leading to conflicts).

After which, starting up your new system, Windows will detect the new "devices" of your mobo... IF you did a thorough removal job (and even then, some unexplained conflicts, instabilities or other quirks could happen... but you won't know unless you try !)

I've had success before : mostly replacing hardware with same brand, same chipset manufacturer and same processor type... and I've also been through many unsuccessful attempts, no matter how much I tried... So now, for the most part, I'ld rather "fresh install" both my OS and all my applications.

OR

2) Going with the "backup" route. Yes, if you have your second hard drive working fine now in your old system or a second partition on your primary drive : copy everyting you don't wanna lose to it. This, however, mostly applies to your data files, including "exporting" your address book, e-mail messages, favorites, etc. and NOT your applications... further explanations on this later...

Then, you can re-format and re-install the OS on the primary partition with the new mobo, then re-install all your applications. Only then you can go back and access all your data files.


Why can't you keep your applications intact ? Well, most apps need to be registered (hence the name "registry"...) to function properly : paths to ".dll", executables, various directories to use, preferences, etc.

Unfortunately, the words "should just plug in and work" as you wrote ARE NOT part of the Windows world yet... The registry from one version of the OS is not compatible with another. And, even sticking with the same OS version doesn't guarantee much. The registry gets clogged-up in useless or conflicting entries over time : your system may seem fine, you may not notice the gradual slowing down, or you may get the occasional unexplained crash on a more regular basis...

For the same reasons, we should re-install Windows every once in a while even if NOT changing any piece of hardware : just to rebuild the registry !

... and this, of course, implies re-installing all the Windows Updates, security fixes, patches, service packs, etc. as well as all the patches available for your individual applications...

Some maintenance utilities can help you "maintain" your system (i.e. the likes of Norton Utilities' WinDoctor and DiskDoctor, or similar packages from McAfee and others...), but I have yet to see a "mainboard upgrade survival" utility !

All this to answer your "side note" !

Don't despair : the fun is in "trying and learning", isn't it ?

 

HelzBelz

Member
Jul 31, 2002
53
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Originally posted by: PHiuR
good post helbez.... =] a junior with a lot of advice! i like
Well, thanks for the appreciation, PHiuR !

... as long as I can help Franz316 or anyone else !


(I'm perhaps junior at AT Forums, but not so junior in the business...)




 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
136
Wow thanks a lot Helz Belz I don't know what to say...

It looks like I will be formatting now that you informed me on what was nessessary to upgrade without formatting. So you are saying that all my applications cannot be transfered. Is it possible to uninstall Windows on my C: drive which has all my applications on it and install it on the D: drive which just has data on it that I can move, thus preserving all my programs. When I installed my second hard drive it for some reason made a little 2 gig partition called E:. Will Windows XP Pro fit on only 2 gigs? That would mean all I have to do is uninstall windows from C and then install it on the small partition.
 

HelzBelz

Member
Jul 31, 2002
53
0
0
Originally posted by: Franz316
Wow thanks a lot Helz Belz I don't know what to say...

It looks like I will be formatting now that you informed me on what was nessessary to upgrade without formatting. So you are saying that all my applications cannot be transfered. Is it possible to uninstall Windows on my C: drive which has all my applications on it and install it on the D: drive which just has data on it that I can move, thus preserving all my programs. When I installed my second hard drive it for some reason made a little 2 gig partition called E:. Will Windows XP Pro fit on only 2 gigs? That would mean all I have to do is uninstall windows from C and then install it on the small partition.

The way you put it just seems to be such an easy task, and such a smooth transition !

It just isn't !

How do you think you can uninstall Windows and then re-install Windows and then (miracleously) get all the applications registered : remember, you uninstalled Windows, so you lost the registry...

Perhaps if you upgrade to XP from 98SE the registry would then be somewhat complete (at least, that's what Microshaft would like you to believe...). However, I've only had problems with trying "upgrading" Windows instead of a full install. (and I do mean using an "upgrade" CD, not a "full install" CD; these are two different types of CDs, different licenses, etc.)

But again : you also want to transplant a motherboard on top of this whole mess !
rolleye.gif


Also, it doesn't matter where you install Windows (be it the D: or E: partition) : there will always be a part installed on the C: drive. Just can't get away from that.

Franz316 : Why won't you just re-install all your applications, after a clean Windows install ? Is it that you don't have the originals ?

Also, you should try and get a utility to re-partition your 2nd drive more evenly (2 partitions of same size) without any loss of data (for example, using PartitionMagic), or, with "fdisk" delete the existing partitions and re-partition (losing all data). No sense of keeping a 2GB partition if your drive is much larger.

Anyone else : PLEASE help me ! (if you know of a way to cleanly survive a motherboard transplant AND a Windows upgrade WITHOUT reformatting !)

I don't... :confused:

 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
136
Thanks for the reality check Helz Belz I needed it:eek: I will go ahead and format.
One more question though, should I wait to upgrade or should I go ahead and pick up a 2100+.
 

billyjak

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,869
1
81
Just get the 2100 unless you want to wait for the Hammer.
Which could be a looong time in the compter world.
I used to wait, not now because it always changes, I just rebuild and sell my older stuff when I upgrade.
Don't miss out on today when tomorrow isin't here yet.
 

pitupepito2000

Golden Member
Aug 2, 2002
1,181
0
0
What I would do is get the MSI KT3 Ultra-ARU and get the highest AMD processor than you can. This motherboard is pretty good and if you get an AMD XP OEM you will pay a lot less.
 

HelzBelz

Member
Jul 31, 2002
53
0
0
Originally posted by: Franz316
Thanks for the reality check Helz Belz I needed it:eek: I will go ahead and format.
One more question though, should I wait to upgrade or should I go ahead and pick up a 2100+.
Just glad I can be of help !

I would get the Athlon XP CPU first : you'ld be surprised at how much speed you can get out of your current system (after flashing your A7V with the most recent BIOS).

It'll give you time to shop around for your new mobo and new RAM (and then, after experiencing this setup, maybe even decide to wait a few months...). Also, you might have the time to find someone to buy your current setup with the 800MHz processor, etc.

;)

What's the rush...

 

Zugzwang152

Lifer
Oct 30, 2001
12,134
1
0
See if you can affored waiting a while longer for Hammer. In that time you can either go with Hammer, as you'll have saved more money by then, or if Hammer sucks (heaven forbid), you can get a Barton or T-bred for less than they are going for now. As a fellow T-bird brother (i'm running a 1ghz@1.12ghz), I can tell you that this is what I'm planning on doing. If Hammer turns out to be too expensive for me, I'll back down and get a close to the fastest Socket A cpu left.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
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Just reinstall XP over your existing Config. XP will detect all your new devices (such as ACPI, AGP and PCI Controllers) and you wont have to reinstall all your apps. If you don't have a ton of them (apps) then a format and reinstall isn't a hassle, but if you have a ton of apps, reformatting and reinstalling is a bitch time wise. With my current XP Install I've gone from a i815 Chipset to a Via Chipset to a i845 Chipset without having to format and reinstall (having a SCSI Subsystem also helps)

 

HelzBelz

Member
Jul 31, 2002
53
0
0
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Just reinstall XP over your existing Config. XP will detect all your new devices (such as ACPI, AGP and PCI Controllers) and you wont have to reinstall all your apps. If you don't have a ton of them (apps) then a format and reinstall isn't a hassle, but if you have a ton of apps, reformatting and reinstalling is a bitch time wise. With my current XP Install I've gone from a i815 Chipset to a Via Chipset to a i845 Chipset without having to format and reinstall (having a SCSI Subsystem also helps)
Perhaps, but he's upgrading from 98SE plus switching mobo/chipset, which is asking for trouble...

 

Franz316

Golden Member
Sep 12, 2000
1,020
538
136
I think I will just buy a 2200+ and wait for the Hammer reviews and prices. I am going to clock the 2200 down, how hard is this to do. Can anyone give quick directions?

The plan was to upgrade the components in the Windows XP system and move my current ones to the Win98se system. There are 2 computers here, I am trying to upgrade both at once, just the 98 one with my current hardware. So what the person above said is possible, to reinstall XP over itself so it registers the new hardware. As for the 98se system, I think I will just go ahead and format that computer.