Best bang for the buck at the really low end

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paulsiu

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Feb 7, 2005
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My mom has a 1.3 Ghz Celeron with only 128 Mb. When I tried to upgrade her memory, I discovered that it uses very old low density PC133 DIMM that have risen in price. I figure a better option would be just to replace the entire MB with a new matx board. Besides, I could upgrade her machine over time from cast offs from my upgrades.

She only uses it for surfing the internet and word processor. What do you folks suggest? I was thinking of one of the cheap SIS765 based socket 754 boards with a Sempron 2800. It would have integrated video. So far, I particularly like the Foxconn board with a firewire for $73. 939 board would be better, but there are no decent 939 board at that price range and there are no cheap 939 processors. There are also no 754 board with PCI-e in the mATX.

What about the Celeron? Is there any decent Intel based board in the $75 range? I can't reuse the celeron because it appears to use the old socket 370. I am not familar with the Celeron D performance. From what I read so far, they are fairly comparable to the Semprons.

Paul
 
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grooge

Senior member
Dec 23, 2004
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for your mom, the foxconn and the cheap 2800+ is ideal. not needing dual channel is a plus to keep the price lower. If you dont think that the 64 bits extension might not be usefull, sempron is a good choice over the celeron.

Hey, if she was happy today with what she had, the sempron will be more than enough for another 5-6 years..
 
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tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,896
553
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She only uses it for surfing the internet and word processor. What do you folks suggest?
Click to expand...
Something less expensive than AMD64 for email and WordPad:

Foxconn 400M01-G-6L KM400 m-ATX Socket A/462 Motherboard - $39.00 shipped

AMD Sempron 2300+ 333MHz FSB - $56.00 shipped

Rosewill 512MB PC3200 (DDR400) Module - $38.00 shipped

Or if you want to go with a video card instead of integrated video:

ECS KT600-A Socket A/462 VIA VIA KT600/VT8237 Mainboard - $38.00 shipped

SAPPHIRE Radeon 9250 128MB DDR AGP 4X/8X Video Card - $45.00 shipped
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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The absolute bottom for _current_ technology would be the ECS K8M800-M board plus a Sempron 2600+. That's socket-754.
 
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tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,896
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Originally posted by: Peter
The absolute bottom for _current_ technology would be the ECS K8M800-M board plus a Sempron 2600+. That's socket-754.
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I would disagree.

ECS K8M800-M could just as well be a KM400A, KT600, or PM800 board but with different CPU support. Same UniChrome graphics (except KT600), same AGP slot, same conventional PCI bus, same VT8237 South Bridge with SATA RAID, same AC97 bus and codecs, same USB2.0.

95% current technology, unless by 'current' you meant only CPU support. ;)
 
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paulsiu

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Feb 7, 2005
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If you work out the cost of upgrading the RAM:

2x256 Mb Crucial Low Density PC133 CL3 RAM = 71 x 2 = $142

If I replace the MB, CPU, and RAM. The cost is:

Socket 754 MB $72
Sempron 2600 $78
512 DDR400 $39
$189

In fact, a full low end system is pretty cheap (if you didn't have all of the parts):

Case (Antec) $50
HD $56
DVD Burnder $52

Total system: $347 (but you probably still need to buy XP).

A 939 board would be better, but the cheapest A64 is about $140. I believe AMD at one point wanted to do a 939 sempron, but seemed to have relegated Sempron to the 754 socket. 754 is likely to be around for another 2 years or so.

Sempron seems to be a better deal than Celeron D in term so performance vs Bucks. None of the socket T board at this low price range can be upgraded to dual core any way. Intel's high heat would probably be less ideal in a small mATX case.

There are no microATX socket 754 PCI-e boards. There are a few socket-T mATX case, but they all seemed to lack firewire. There are some also some strange socket-T board with PCI-e and AGP implemented on PCI.



 
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paulsiu

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Feb 7, 2005
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At the low end, I probalby stay away from the K8M800 chipset. From what I read from the review, they seemed to have a lower memory bandwidth than the SIS chipset.
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
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Originally posted by: paulsiu
At the low end, I probalby stay away from the K8M800 chipset. From what I read from the review, they seemed to have a lower memory bandwidth than the SIS chipset.
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Which would be utter bull, simply because the RAM controller is on the CPU not the chipset.
 
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superkdogg

Senior member
Jul 9, 2004
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Originally posted by: paulsiu
Originally posted by: Peter
[Which would be utter bull, simply because the RAM controller is on the CPU not the chipset.
Click to expand...


Good point, all A64 and Sempron on the 754 or 939 socket should have roughly the same memory performance. Yet, see the following review:

http://www.legionhardware.com/html/doc.php?id=304&p=6

Is it because of the Integrated video?

Paul
Click to expand...

I've seen IG mess up my own memory performance on a Celeron D. Put in a PCI vid card and gained ~35%. But the performance using integrated gfx is relevant if that's what he'll use. It's important to know that the Via solution has slower mem perf. using IG.

To the OP-I think it would be worth it to go 939. It's not the extreme low end, but it's the most cost effective. It is the only socket that is around now that we know will be around for a while. Going 939 will prevent you from having to post this same thread in 3-4 years.

However if you are budget limited pretty strictly, the 754 solutions with IG are all pretty decent. She doesn't need a lot of features or power for her needs and anything you buy is gonna obliterate her current setup. Celeron D would probably be the worst way to go-it's a lot better than the old ones, but it's still the red-headed stepchild of Prescott.
 
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tcsenter

Lifer
Sep 7, 2001
18,896
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http://www.legionhardware.com/html/doc.php?id=304&p=6

Is it because of the Integrated video?
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Both ATI R9100 and Intel 865G are dual channel memory solutions. The KM800 is single channel. It seems the Legion Hardware review author didn't even notice or attempt to explain this.

The aging S3/VIA's UniChrome [II/PRO] graphics is falling substantially behind its competitors in terms of performance and features. This IGP core hasn't changed since ProSavage4 (KM133), with the exception of some higher clocks, the addition of DDR interface, 128-bit paths, and one pixel pipe that does next to nothing to improve 3D performance.

For a company that owns graphics accelerator design assets, one would think they would try a little harder to bring their latest IGP at least on par with nForce220 IGP from 3 years ago (the first nForce IGP). Something, anything, other than nothing.

We keep hearing promises from VIA that 'better, faster' IGP are planned, but we keep getting respun ProSavage IGP with very minor improvements:
Interview with VIA Technologies? Ben Boyden

X-bit labs: Can you tell us something about your DeltaChrome plans or products?

Ben Boyden: S3 Graphics actually started shipping the DeltaChrome graphics processor in December, so you can expect new cards from vendors such as Club 3D anytime soon.

The DeltaChrome graphics processor features full DirectX 9+ compatibility, eight pixel shader and four vertex shader pipelines, and features a number of what we call ?beyond gaming? features. These include native support for HDTV and the programmable Chromotion video engine. The total package makes DeltaChrome the only mid-range graphics processor to deliver a true ?High-Def? viewing experience.

Throughout 2004 S3 Graphics will be introducing a series of graphics processors based on the DeltaChrome core for the desktop and notebook PC markets. 2004 will also see the launch of DeltaChrome IGP chipsets with support for DX9, from 2H ?04 onwards. As you are probably aware, support for DirectX 9 in IGP chipsets will soon become essential, especially with the arrival of Microsoft?s Longhorn OS.
Click to expand...
Umm...whoops!
 
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paulsiu

Member
Feb 7, 2005
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Judging from the latest, both socket 754 and 939 will go away in 18 months and be replaced by M2. On the socket 939, we'll get least get a few dual core A64 before 939 is gone. On the socket 754 side, we'll get Semprons (this socket is actually getting slower as AMD drop their A64).

As for crappy performance of IGP, I guess it does match the market. Folks who play buy Sempron aren't really gamers and probably run office app that doesn't really use 3D. Would be nice to see a kick-ass IGP (ATI IGP isn't too bad) at the low end, but I don't see it happening. People who use office app aren't going to complain.
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
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Originally posted by: paulsiu
Originally posted by: Peter
[Which would be utter bull, simply because the RAM controller is on the CPU not the chipset.
Click to expand...


Good point, all A64 and Sempron on the 754 or 939 socket should have roughly the same memory performance. Yet, see the following review:

http://www.legionhardware.com/html/doc.php?id=304&p=6

Is it because of the Integrated video?

Paul
Click to expand...

Heck, they can't even spell "integrated", and they're drawing the wrong conclusions. Of course when I compare dual-channel RAM solutions like the ATi and Intel chipsets with a single-channel solution like socket-754 Athlons, I'll end up with roughly twice the bandwidth on the former. Duh.

Sure, the integrated graphics eat into main memory bandwidth, but they all do, and there are few tricks to doing that. So if you're running the same resolution, color depth and refresh rate on an SiS and VIA socket-754 IGP machine, you'll end up with very much the same remaining available bandwidth.
 
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Peter

Elite Member
Oct 15, 1999
9,640
1
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tcsenter, while you are correct that VIA have been promising a DeltaChrome DX9 IGP, it's not like they haven't improved from ProSavage to UniChrome Pro. Memory bandwidth has increased obviously, and the rest focussed on 2D media. HDTV support has been added, MPEG2 and recently MPEG4 decoders introduced. Sure, 3D feature set and speed stinks. SiS 760GX is about twice as fast in 3DMark, even faster when the non-GX part is used that does support local memory alongside shared. While the SiS graphics unit also does have DVD acceleration (since 1997!), its drivers often screw up on supporting that ... just as often as they screw up on the video overlay support.

So if you're after 2D, go for the VIA chipset.
 
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leigh6

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2004
3,011
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WO!!! Look on the for sale/ trade thread here for memory. I am sure you can get it VERY CHEAP!!!!!

Post a want to buy for the memory. Unless you want to upgrade anyway. But do not let the price of memory make you do the build.
 
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