Best "bang for buck" overclocker?

[SantiClaws]

I have an Opty 146 which I'm thinking of retiring. Is there a consensus "best bang for the buck" 2-core overclocker these days in the $100 range? I don't really care if it is an Intel or AMD cpu, I'm just looking for the best price/performance ratio. My current cpu overclocks by almost 50% with stock cooling without breaking a sweat. Anything available with similar performance these days?

One recommendation I've seen is the E21xx series from Intel. Is that my best bet?

Thanks

 

[Jax Omen]

Pretty sure the E2xxx are the budget overclocking champions right now.

 

[Twsmit]

E21xx should hit 2.8 - 3.2ghz for about ~50% OC. However YMMV and you might have to use a 3rd party cooler to keep the temps sane and to ensure stability.

 

[SantiClaws]

Would I be better off just picking up a dual core 939 Athlon? I feel stupid buying old technology at a premium, but if I go the Intel route, I have to get the CPU, mobo, and memory. If I just pick up a dual core AMD clocked at about 2.0ghz, it would would be a hell of a lot cheaper and easier. How much of a performance advantage would the E21xx offer?

 

[BadRobot]

I second everything twsmit said. We both have similar rigs except that his other parts are more up to date than mine.

I was able to use the stock cooler to hit 3.2 but YMMV for sure, so good luck on the overclock!

 

[BadRobot]

c2d kicks the crap out of a 939 athlon...I don't think i have any links comparing them directly though...

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Clock-for-clock, the A64X2 and Intel E2xxx are fairly close, on average. As others have pointed out, the E's overclock better.

I have an Opteron 165 @ 2.5 Ghz with a fairly mild fan in an SFF. I'm seen plenty of reports of people getting up to 2.8 w/o any exotic cooling.

If you can get an X2 at a good price, I'd say go for it, if your budget is severely limited; it's a nice, easy upgrade. However, used S939 X2's are going up in price - I recently sold an old X2-3800 on Ebay for $66 w/o HSF.

 

[SantiClaws]

I can probably get an E21xx combo at Fry's for only a bit more than an old 939 processor, but I'm time-crunched and it's always a pain to change out the cpu/mobo/memory combo, plus there's always some sort of a glitch that drives you nuts for a couple of days. Decisions, Decisions...

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: SantiClaws
I can probably get an E21xx combo at Fry's for only a bit more than an old 939 processor, but I'm time-crunched and it's always a pain to change out the cpu/mobo/memory combo, plus there's always some sort of a glitch that drives you nuts for a couple of days. Decisions, Decisions...

I know how you feel... that's why the quick-n-easy upgrades have such strong appeal!

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: BadRobot
c2d kicks the crap out of a 939 athlon...I don't think i have any links comparing them directly though...

Actually, that's only true with the 4MB cache models, and to a lesser extent, the 2MB C2D's. The 1MB E2x00's are more or less the same, clock-for-clock, as the Athlon X2's, if not a hair slower, at least when it comes to gaming.

 

[error8]

Grabbing that old Athlon cpu could be a very simple step right now, but your system will be worthless after 6 months or so, when you will decide to change everything. Today you can still get something for those DDR1 modules and motherboard, but next year, not even the most uninformed human on this planet will pay you a cent for them, since the DDR3 platform will be on the shelfs.

Spend a couple of dollars more today and you will thank yourself later, who knows , maybe you'll find an irresistible deal for a quad next month or so and you can install it in your 775 socket without a problem. Extending your socket 939 life is just like carrying a disease on yourself and trying to delay the doctor appointment, until one day when you'll go to him and he'll say that is just to late and nothing can be done to save your life.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: error8
Grabbing that old Athlon cpu could be a very simple step right now, but your system will be worthless after 6 months or so, when you will decide to change everything. Today you can still get something for those DDR1 modules and motherboard, but next year, not even the most uninformed human on this planet will pay you a cent for them, since the DDR3 platform will be on the shelfs.

Spend a couple of dollars more today and you will thank yourself later, who knows , maybe you'll find an irresistible deal for a quad next month or so and you can install it in your 775 socket without a problem. Extending your socket 939 life is just like carrying a disease on yourself and trying to delay the doctor appointment, until one day when you'll go to him and he'll say that is just to late and nothing can be done to save your life.

Why would you say the "system will be worthless" in 6 months? Are you aware there are still new systems being sold with single core processors?

Maybe the OP should buy his S939 X2, and then in 8-10 months adopt the platform that is replacing LGA775. Or maybe he should move to LGA775 now. There's not a right or wrong answer here.

Comparing a computing platform to a disease is asinine.

 

[error8]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: error8
Grabbing that old Athlon cpu could be a very simple step right now, but your system will be worthless after 6 months or so, when you will decide to change everything. Today you can still get something for those DDR1 modules and motherboard, but next year, not even the most uninformed human on this planet will pay you a cent for them, since the DDR3 platform will be on the shelfs.

Spend a couple of dollars more today and you will thank yourself later, who knows , maybe you'll find an irresistible deal for a quad next month or so and you can install it in your 775 socket without a problem. Extending your socket 939 life is just like carrying a disease on yourself and trying to delay the doctor appointment, until one day when you'll go to him and he'll say that is just to late and nothing can be done to save your life.

Why would you say the "system will be worthless" in 6 months? Are you aware there are still new systems being sold with single core processors?

Maybe the OP should by his S939 X2, and then in 8-10 months adopt the platform that is replacing LGA775. Or maybe he should move to LGA775 now. There's not a right or wrong answer here.

Comparing a computing platform to a disease is asinine.

Comparing a computing platform with a disease was a joke, but I see you haven't tasted it.

I've said that his computer will become "worthless" in terms of resale value, so he would get more money on his parts now that he could get in 6 months or so when Nehalem will arrive and the 939 platform will be an antique. Plus, having a 775 motherboard will open up more opportunities for a future upgrade.

You are quite right, there is no right or wrong here, but like you've shared your opinion about what he should do, I've also shared mine, so I don't see why does this bothers you so much!?

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Comparing a computing platform with a disease was a joke, but I see you haven't tasted it.

I've said that his computer will become "worthless" in terms of resale value, so he would get more money on his parts now that he could get in 6 months or so when Nehalem will arrive and the 939 platform will be an antique. Plus, having a 775 motherboard will open up more opportunities for a future upgrade.

You are quite right, there is no right or wrong here, but like you've shared your opinion about what he should do, I've also shared mine, so I don't see why does this bothers you so much!?

I'm not bothered at all (don't know why you'd think that?), just curious about your logic.

Regarding opinions, the difference is you are trying to convince the OP to get a system - namely, your platform of choice - whereas I am trying to provide a dollop or two of information that was not previously addressed in the thread.

If you've ever checked the market for older computer parts - say, 2-4 years - the resale value is comparatively good. S478 P4's going for over $100, for example.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: BadRobot
c2d kicks the crap out of a 939 athlon...I don't think i have any links comparing them directly though...

Actually, that's only true with the 4MB cache models, and to a lesser extent, the 2MB C2D's. The 1MB E2x00's are more or less the same, clock-for-clock, as the Athlon X2's, if not a hair slower, at least when it comes to gaming.

Where does this misconception come from? Flipped Gazelle as well as yourself have already made this incorrect assertion.

http://xbitlabs.com/articles/c...-shootout_9.html#sect0

An E2200 (2.2GHz) is equal to an X2 5200+ (2.7GHz). On average, it is 17% faster per clock when compared to the X2 4200+ (2.2GHz).

The gap narrows with gaming, but the E21x0 chips are still 5 - 10% faster per clock:
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/c...-shootout_4.html#sect0

In reply to the OP, the best 'bang for buck' chip right now would be the E2180, for around $70. As others have already mentioned, these chips should hit 3GHz without too much fuss, though of course nothing is guaranteed with overclocking.

You could also stick it out with your current S939 system if you manage to find a cheap X2. Its the more convenient upgrade, but won't match an overclocked E21x0 in performance.

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: harpoon84

Originally posted by: myocardia

Originally posted by: BadRobot
c2d kicks the crap out of a 939 athlon...I don't think i have any links comparing them directly though...

Actually, that's only true with the 4MB cache models, and to a lesser extent, the 2MB C2D's. The 1MB E2x00's are more or less the same, clock-for-clock, as the Athlon X2's, if not a hair slower, at least when it comes to gaming.

Where does this misconception come from? Flipped Gazelle as well as yourself have already made this incorrect assertion.

The gap narrows with gaming, but the E21x0 chips are still 5 - 10% faster per clock:
http://xbitlabs.com/articles/c...-shootout_4.html#sect0

I just love it when someone talks crap about a statement I make, backed by benchmarks, only to provide their own benchmarks, which also substantiate my claims.

 

[harpoon84]

I also love it when people are in denial.

How do my own benchmarks substantiate your claims? Your benchmarks didn't even provide a true clock for clock comparison, mine did, and they don't add up to your claims:

The 1MB E2x00's are more or less the same, clock-for-clock, as the Athlon X2's, if not a hair slower, at least when it comes to gaming.

3DMark06:
E2200: 8999
4200+: 8195
9.8% difference per clock

3DMark06 CPU:
E2200: 1917
4200+: 1635
17.2% difference per clock

Quake 4:
E2200: 84.44 fps
4200+: 83.03 fps
1.7% difference per clock

HL2: EP2
E2200: 101.77 fps
4200+: 98.89 fps
2.9% difference per clock

Crysis:
E2200: 38.67fps
4200+: 34.67fps
11.5% difference per clock

UT3:
E2200: 57.48fps
4200+: 52.22fps
10.1% difference per clock

World in Conflict:
E2200: 43fps
4200+: 37fps
16.2% difference per clock

Average difference in gaming (per clock): 9.91%

The numbers don't lie.

 

[bryanW1995]

uh, harpoon, why are you comparing the e2xxx to a 1mb L2 cache x2 cpu? certainly there are many x2's with 1MB L2 cache, but, for example, the x2 4400 is also clocked at 2.2 ghz but has 2mb L2 cache instead of 1mb.

@op: be wary of that fry's e2xxx deal with the mobo...sometimes that mobo oc's ok, sometimes not so good. If you can get your hands on a good x2 skt 939 cpu then that's probably your best bet, then just migrate when penryn-based cpus get REALLY cheap in Q1 09 or hold out for a few months after that and try to score a deal on a nehalem-based system.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: bryanW1995
uh, harpoon, why are you comparing the e2xxx to a 1mb L2 cache x2 cpu? certainly there are many x2's with 1MB L2 cache, but, for example, the x2 4400 is also clocked at 2.2 ghz but has 2mb L2 cache instead of 1mb.

Perhaps because the vast majority of X2s being sold today are 65nm Brisbane chips with 1MB L2? Is that a good enough reason for you? For example, at Newegg, the only X2 4400+ chip you can buy is a Brisbane 2.3GHz chip with 1MB L2.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ion=x2+4400%2B&x=0&y=0

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

harpoon84, please read my original statement again. "Clock-for-clock, the A64X2 and Intel E2xxx are fairly close, on average." The #'s you posted back up my statement, I believe. Please do not accuse me of an "incorrect assertion" where none is made.

My interpretation of "fairly close" may be different than yours.

Myocardia's link provides a very close match - compare the E2160 @ 1.8 Ghz vs X2 3600+ @ 1.9 Ghz.

Also, given platform, memory timings, etc., a few % points can also be shuffled one way or the other.

Anyway, we've drifted off topic, I think. If the OP wants a quick and easy upgrade than can give a meaningful performance boost, dropping in an X2 is the way to go. If he is willing to make a bit more of a monetary investment, as well as time and labor, switching to LGA775 will yield more performance.

 

[Twsmit]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
harpoon84, please read my original statement again. "Clock-for-clock, the A64X2 and Intel E2xxx are fairly close, on average." The #'s you posted back up my statement, I believe.

I guess it depends on one's viewpoint of "fairly close".

Myocardia's link provides a very close match - compare the E2160 @ 1.8 Ghz vs X2 3600+ @ 1.9 Ghz.

I'm going to take a different viewpoint here. Assuming harpoons numbers are genuine (no source link) the E21xx is probably 4 or 5% faster on average when you ignore 3dmark. Not a big deal..... however.....

An X2 or opteron on socket 939 is unlikely to hit 3ghz, I know personally my X2 3800+ maxed at 2.6ghz.

Therefore this is not so much a comparison at stock speeds, or at the same speed, but rather an X2/Opteron @ 2.6-3ghz (2.8 is probably more in line with reality, I sincerely doubt you will be able to get any higher on air) vs. a 2.8-3.2 ghz E21xx. To me it is a no brainer, the E21xx will be faster, with its extra mhz as well as its clock for clock advantage.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
harpoon84, please read my original statement again. "Clock-for-clock, the A64X2 and Intel E2xxx are fairly close, on average." The #'s you posted back up my statement, I believe. Please do not accuse me of an "incorrect assertion" where none is made.

My interpretation of "fairly close" may be different than yours.

How exactly is providing a link showing a 17% difference in clock for clock performance 'backing up your statement'?!

I give up, its like arguing with Baghbad Bob, if you can't interpret simple data then this discussion is pointless.

 

[harpoon84]

Originally posted by: Twsmit
I'm going to take a different viewpoint here. Assuming harpoons numbers are genuine (no source link) the E21xx is probably 4 or 5% faster on average when you ignore 3dmark. Not a big deal..... however.....

http://xbitlabs.com/articles/c...-shootout_4.html#sect0

I linked to it already in an earlier post, I was just expanding on it, actually putting the numbers and maths into it so people can stop saying I'm 'backing up their claims' when I'm debunking them.

If you ignore 3DMark, the numbers don't change much at all. An E21x0 is still ~8.5% faster per clock, and this is in gaming, where the lack of cache hurts performance the most. If you discount gaming, an E21x0 is around 20% faster per clock.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Twsmit, I agree with you, however I think the "value" is dependent on how much the OP wishes to invest in time and effort, and possibly his own PC roadmap. Nehalem possibly coming up before year's end...

EDIT: removed unworthy & useless comment...

 

[BadRobot]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle
Anyway, we've drifted off topic, I think. If the OP wants a quick and easy upgrade than can give a meaningful performance boost, dropping in an X2 is the way to go. If he is willing to make a bit more of a monetary investment, as well as time and labor, switching to LGA775 will yield more performance.

What this guy said.

c2d is better than x2 particularly when overclocking but x2 upgrade would be cheaper for the OP.