Best 19" Monitor under $600

[MisterPotatoHead]

I'd like to add one thing..

I used to work in an electronics store. Sony makes the worst cordless phones I've ever seen in my life in terms of reliability/repairs/quality, etc. More returns than ANY other brand.

Their TVs and monitors, however, are some of the best I have ever seen. You can't judge a large company that makes practically everything by only one line of products.

 

[damocles]

Misterpotatphead


if you mean those little flip cordless phones? They were unbelievably bad. Crap reception and we were forever sending them back to SONY (who didnt acknowledge there was a problem, despite the fact we were returning them about 5 x any other phone).

 

[Lore]

Ack. We're still debating this? I personally do not believe the tubes that Sony sells to KDS are defective or any crappier than the ones they use themselves. However, it is definitely a possibility that the other electronic parts KDS uses is poorly manufactured compared to Sony parts, and as a result prices are lower.

However - we do not know this for a fact.

I do know that Sony employees can get surplus products for significantly cheaper than they would cost in the retail market - however, still not below Sony's cost. And in that regard, the surplus price is on par with the price KDS and Samsung, etc, sell their monitors at.

Take that as you will.

 

[Captain Ginyu]

LXi: See sony does make some bad products they arent god. Every company makes some bad products. What happens if you dont have a sony service center near you? Then you gotta ship it out and wait weeks. Plus on its transit back to you there is a chance it could get destroyed due to poor packaging. Why does sony use such poor packaging compared to other companies? Labor is the most likely reason why samsung and kds monitors are so cheap. They are both made in korea.

 

[LXi]

I never said they were god, but I can say that they're the closest to god. Too bad I wont even get a chance to take advantage of their service and warranty, 'cause none of them has crapped out on me yet. I agree the Korean labors are slightly lower, but the Sonys are NOT assembled in Japan, the parts are made everywhere in the world, mostly Asian Pacific countries, and the assembly takes place in Thailand(my 17" was made there), the price difference is most likely due to the brand name and more expensive parts. The KDS Avitron line actually isn't cheap, $499 for the AV-19FT compare to Sony E400 which is $549, only $50 difference. Note that this is retail prices, I dont know why but I speculate that the on line stores are messing around with KDS's prices because they're siginificant lower than the listed prices.

 

[dszd0g]

I think that Sony's quality control is above par. I have three Sony monitors in my house (100SF, 15SF, and my new F500). The 100SF is my roommates and he claims its ancient (but he hates Sony so much as a company he doesn't like it.) My 15SF is about 6 years old and works just as good as the day I got it. I use it for network gaming instead of trying to lug my 73lbs F500. Just a quote from the last gaming session I was at with it, "Why does your screen look so much better than mine?" We were playing Diablo II. Everyone in the room looked at my screen and then his screen and nodded. There were many differences between my system and his, but the best answer I could give was "You're using a Viewsonic." He had a TNT2 Ultra in his system (I believe a Diamond V770) and I had an Asus V6800 (GeForce 256 DDR) in mine. It could have been video card, but I kind of doubt it since they are both nVidia boards.

Since my 6 year old Sony got compliments last weekend, I really have to say that Sony is doing something right.

People try not to drool when they look at my F500, however usually they are just pissed off at me that I actually have one.

 

[LXi]

There we go, thats what I hear from a majority of the Sony owners. The main reason why your Sony looks better than the ViewSonic, is probably because yours uses an Aperture Grille tube(Trinitron), and the ViewSonic uses a more conventional Invar Shadow Mask tube. Most people tend to like the Aperture Grille better.

 

[dszd0g]

I do want to add that I believe Sony to be overpriced. However, they can charge so much because of their reputation. I'm sure at least $500 of my F500 is purely fluff that could be taken off by them at a moments notice.

Mostly off topic:

As far as if you have problems and have to RMA, waiting weeks. Mind telling me which company that isn't the case with? Asus which we all praise is in Fremont bordering where I live. Last time I wanted to RMA even if I dropped it off and picked it up, they still said 3 weeks. Asus support sucks royally. Thankfully, after I got that 3 week estimate I said screw it. Even though their tech support wasn't able to help me I brute forced all my BIOS settings until I got the video card to work. (An old Asus V3800 in an Asus P3B-F, wouldn't work even with only those two cards in the system. Hung loading Win98 video drives. Fix: Turn plug and play OS off. Hard assign IRQ to slot 1. Turn power switch off and back on --soft reset doesn't work. Now my old V3800 works with the latest beta reference drivers even.)

 

[LXi]

Asus sucks? Well I dont know what to tell ya, if they suck then I cant think of anyone that doesnt suck. Their RMA rate is extremely low compare to the likes of Abit, and their support from what I heard, is pretty good in the motherboard standard.

 

[damocles]

One thing i can say for certain is, that no matter how good a model is, every individual monitor is a little different to the next. I have seen VERY expensive monitors that didnt really look that good to me and surprisingly crisp cheap monitors.

 

[LXi]

Thats very true, monitors nowadays is like a shot in the dark.

 

[Rudee]

Ideally, monitors should be visually inspected before shelling out your money 'cause they differ from one to the next.

If you plan on ordering a monitor online, be sure they have a return/exchange policy if you're not happy.

Onvia is pretty good with returns. I went through 2 Samsung 900NF's that I didn't like because of geometry problems. I'm currently awaiting a 900IFT. We'll see how that goes.

 

[The Wildcard]

Captain Ginyu: hahaha it's you that's confused. What i am saying is this. Lxi has reached the conclusion that KDS,SAMSUNG and CTX use lower quality tubes. YOU ARGUE that is impossible cuz they would know if they use lower quality tubes.

WELL what i am saying is that, when SAMSUNG,KDS and CTX "use" tubes from SONY AND MITSUBISHI, they are just using amd modyfying the DESIGN. WHO IS MAKING IT? EACH INDIVIDUAL COMPANY IS MANUFACTURING THEIR OWN PARTS AND TUBES.

That's what i mean by lower quality. SURE, you can use the same design, but how do you know if they are built the same way?

How do you know that KDS,SAMSUNG and CTX parts go through the same manufacturing or quality assurance standards that SONY and MITSUBISHI monitors go through? And don't give me no bull about TCO standards. That has nothing to do with manufacturing standards. only design standards.

HOW DO YOU KNOW that they use the SAME MATERIALS and from the SAME SOURCES that SONY AND MITSUBISHI USE? Just because they are all made in the same country, that doesn't say anything. Different factories, different people, different machines.

 

[andrey]

Sony vs CTX vs KDS vs Samsung...
I'll put this way, I've looked at all of them, and so far Sony does have the better quality picture with more colors and different shades. Just look for yourself

Sony is pretty much like Asus of motherboards or Plextor in CD-ROMs, the best top quality brand, but the most expensive at the same time.

 

[Lore]

Audrey:

No offense, but I think you just missed the entire point of this thread.

I don't think the KDS/Samsung monitors have an image quality below that of Sony. In fact, if I remember correctly, even LXi said that those monitors have display qualities equal (I know, dangerous word to use) to the Sony line.

Our primary subject of debate here is what differences there ARE between the Sony monitors and KDS/Samsung that may justify the price difference. Most argue that the Samsungs and KDS monitors have cheap parts, some argue that the Samsungs and KDS monitors are manufactured in Korea, where labor is cheap, and some argue that Sony monitors are just plain overpriced.

Sony is definitely not like Asus or Plextor. One reason why - the price difference between a Sony monitor and its comparable Samsung/KDS brother is too large for it to be compared to an Asus board, which sells for roughly the same price as an Abit or Soyo or MSI board. Even Plextor burners are now selling for just a bit higher than HP drives for the same features. [edit]: (Note to LXi) By the way, comparing the price of the Sony E400 to the price of the KDS AV-195TF is probably an unfair comparison, I think using the price of the G400 is fairer.

Sony IS doing something right. I don't know what it is exactly, but I can tell you that it's not their monitors' QC process or else they would have spotted what all my co-workers have spotted (quivering). Most likely, I think they are doing well in the marketing/PR scheme of things. Oh, before those of you with the 100sf, 400PS, etc, monitors beg to differ, I want to add that the older Sony monitors were a helluva lot better than the ones they are making now. I still see the 400PS's that the computing centers use and I remain impressed at how clear the screen is. (In all honesty, I actually considered buying one of those older monitors because I was so sick of the problems with the Sony FD Trinitrons)

 

[Captain Ginyu]

Really andrey you've seen the ctx pr960f? You're a huge bullshitter. Its not avalible in stores! Who says sony and mitsu set the standard for quality? You guys seem to have that stuck in your mind. The nvidia reference design is good but it can be improved on. The same can be said for monitors. Andrey is an idiot because there is no way he could have seen that ctx trinitron and if he did he saw a shadow mask. Andrey: Also the sony cant have more shades when the kds and ctx have a fd trinitron. They share the same color.

 

[The Wildcard]

LORE: Hmm you've got a point with the older Sony monitors. They are much better. In fact, these new rounds of new FD monitors from all of these companies all have their little quirks.

Plus, as the PR goes....well i have been trying to think about it, but i have never seen any ads on television or in magazines for sony monitors. So i have no idea why they are the standard except for maybe it's because they were the original ones who first designed the tube. But besides that, i guess it's just maybe a word of mouth thingy. I also think it's just they are so expensive, so people assume it? lol.


Captain Ginsyu: If Andrey did mistake the monitors then he is incorrect. But IF SOMEBODY sees a KDS monitor and also a SONY monitor side by side and says that HIS OWN EYES tell him that the SONY monitor is better, then you have to respect that opnion. If he said that the KDS monitor looked better to him, then I'd respect that too. Why? Cuz everyone's got different eyes.

you've got no right calling him an idiot.

 

[LXi]

How many times do I have to repeat myself? Yes you can improve the specs, but no way in hell can any of the 3rd parties improve the tube. Just like none of the video card manufacturers are able to alter the GeForce2 GTS chip, there is just no way you can change anything in it, of course you can improve it by adding extra features and stuff, but afterall, it will produce the similar image quality, similar speed ect as the nVidia reference card. Same thing with monitors, the same reason why I claim that the same tube might look different on different brands. If you put a Mitsuibishi, a Samsung, an Iiyama, an NEC, and a ViewSonic, all using DiamondTron NF tube, you'll easily identify that everyone of them look slightly different. The reason behind this is the other electronic parts that they use. The reason why I think the Mitsubishi looks the best, is that they know the tube better than everyone else, so they're able to design better electronic parts to incorporate the tube better. Not saying the 3rd parties are totally unable to match the original, never said that, but that happens somewhat rare, because it's very hard to make optimum use of the tube when you're not familiar with this piece of technology. Think about it, who knows chipsets better than Intel and AMD themselves? Who knows the Quake3 engine better than id themselves? Further more, has anyone who licensed the Q3 engine made a killer game that can replace Quake3 Arena yet?

Edit Lore: Why do you think its unfair to compare the E400 to AV-195TF?

 

[The Wildcard]

That's exactly why those monitors all look different. It's cuz each manufactutrer modifies the designs on the tube it purchases. So with different modifications, you get different quality.

 

[dszd0g]

<< LXi wrote:
Asus sucks? >>



I said that Asus SUPPORT sucks. That is far from saying Asus sucks. I own quite a number of their products, 5 systems in this house use Asus boards. All 3 of mine do. If I thought Asus sucked I wouldn't keep buying them. Basically, I have so few problems that I don't generally have to deal with their support. However, when I do it is a painful experience. Not the worst I've had. I think Altec Lansing is the worst I've had. I went through 3 tech support people when I was having problems with my ADA70s and all 3 claimed it was the AMD chip in my system and that I should get an Intel system and see if I still have the problem. I was ready to strangle them.

 

[LXi]

I didnt make myself clear. What I really meant is &quot;Asus support sucks?&quot;
Thats not typical cause most of whom went thru their support process were rather satisfied.

 

[Pete]

Everyone's missing the obvious here: Sony's and Mitsubishi's cases are better-looking than everyone else's.



Besides that fact, I'm curious why no one ever thought that the reason Sony and Mitsu had such high &quot;defective&quot; rates was because they sold so many more monitors than everyone else. I read that most Apple users buy Sonys, they must do so for a reason. The Mitsu Diamond Plus 71 was the highest-rated 17&quot; in PC World for a while, so their rep must have carried over to high-end tubes. I'm gazing deeply into the aperture grille of a DP 900u right now, and it looks pretty good to me.

Still, despite all our posturing and grand claims, there is no substitute for actually seeing your choices first-hand. Suggestions are merely a guide to saving you time, but you ignore something at your own risk. Still, I'd have to say I strongly dislike Viewsonic (spent a summer working at an engineering co full of VS 15&quot;ers, all crappy), and like Mitsu (my DP900u and D+ 71). I have a 15&quot; Sony VAIO which is still going strong after a few years of hefty use, but my school uses Sony 200ES screens, and they fail left and right--the quality really varies among them. Of course, that could be because they're on most of the day, but still. The G200 they just got is phat, though, so I'm assuming Sony's 19&quot; flat-screens would be equally sweet. If you have the $, I'd recommend a Sony or a Mitsu. If you don't, then I'd say look at a Samsung, CTX, etc.

It would also help if you researched where the repair shops are for your monitor--a shop close-by could save a lot of hassles.

 

[LXi]

Pete: You made some very good points and arguments.

First of all I agree, the Sonys and Mitsubishi cases look very nice, the KDS looks like some el-cheapo, so does CTX, now Samsung actually looks cool, but NEC and ViewSonic just looks like crap(ViewSonic's style of making cases is the the way Mercedes Benz shape their cars).

One of the things you pointed out is the number of sales among these manufacturers, you know what? You're absolutely right, because of the fact that Sonys and Mitsubishis sold a lot more monitors than the likes of KDS and CTX, of course they do seem to fail more or have more problems.

One of the things I've been saying since a gazillion years ago, is that if you got the cash, opt for the big brands, if you're broke, be happy with a small brand. There is nothing wrong with that, but people accuse me of being biased and stuff just because I prefer the big brands.

 

[Scifione]

Dam these monitor threads have to decrease in number. Do a SEARDH before starting one! Save your time, and other peaple time repeating what they have said. They have their place, but man oh man are they filling up the Hardware section of the forum.

 

[damocles]

&quot;One of the things I've been saying since a gazillion years ago, is that if you got the cash, opt for the big brands, if you're broke, be happy with a small brand. &quot;
Now i cant agree with that at all. Thats just daft. Big brands and quality can be(and often are) miles apart). Now with regard to Monitors, this is one of Sony's strengths and hence i see the value of much of the debate going on here. I certainly wouldnt touch one of their suck-ass CDRs again.
Are Compaq Presarios worth the extra cash because they are a big brand? Every week i have to try and convince people at work not to follow this logic and instead research their investment.
At my work we sell brand name video cassettes and budget cassettes. People pay more for the 'branded' product even though i know for a fact both are EXACTLY the same cassette
Every item should be evaluated on its merits and value.