Bernie Williams: HOFer? First Ballot HOFer?

[PlatinumGold]

Anyone?

Bernie Williams is an interesting player, he doesn't have dominant number, but offensively he has been one of the top 10 CF in the MLB for the last 12 yrs or so. he's about done too, he only has 2 more seasons left tops.

but he does have 3 WS to his credit.

is he a HOFer?

btw, the reason he is even considered is, in the 3 WS wins, he was probably the yankees best Offensive player.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Anyone?

Bernie Williams is an interesting player, he doesn't have dominant number, but offensively he has been one of the top 10 CF in the MLB for the last 12 yrs or so. he's about done too, he only has 2 more seasons left tops.

but he does have 3 WS to his credit.

is he a HOFer?

btw, the reason he is even considered is, in the 3 WS wins, he was probably the yankees best Offensive player.

Hmm... I'm a big yankee fan, but I don't think Bernie makes it

Like you said, just not dominant enough in any one area to do it, though I guess he was considered good enough a few years ago to command top dollar in the FA market.

 

[RabidMongoose]

No.

btw, the reason he is even considered is, in the 3 WS wins, he was probably the yankees best Offensive player.

Are you saying the reason he is being considered is because of his performance in those 3 World Series championships?

 

[Coquito]

Considering how they are voting in "pretty good" players now, instead of "great", it doesn't seem impossible. He wouldn't get my vote though.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
No.

btw, the reason he is even considered is, in the 3 WS wins, he was probably the yankees best Offensive player.

Are you saying the reason he is being considered is because of his performance in those 3 World Series championships?

i wasn't very clear.

IMO, his performances in the 3 WS makes him a better HOF candidate than say Bobby Bonila.

btw, the reason i said bonila is that http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/willibe02.shtml has bonila listed as one of the most similar batters to williams at the age of 34.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Well...Bobby Bonilla is nowhere close to being a HOF player. Bernie Williams is a lot closer, especially since he was a CF. His offensive numbers alone make him a much better candidate, IMO.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well...Bobby Bonilla is nowhere close to being a HOF player. Bernie Williams is a lot closer, especially since he was a CF. His offensive numbers alone make him a much better candidate, IMO.

agreed,

but during the 3 WS the yankees won in the 90's, who would you say was more important with the bat than Bernie Williams?

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well...Bobby Bonilla is nowhere close to being a HOF player. Bernie Williams is a lot closer, especially since he was a CF. His offensive numbers alone make him a much better candidate, IMO.

agreed,

but during the 3 WS the yankees won in the 90's, who would you say was more important with the bat than Bernie Williams?

Good question. Possibly Jeter, as he was a great table setter, and would rack in the runs. Put up good numbers in those WS too, IIRC.

 

[PlatinumGold]

tino martinez contributed too.

but those teams were Old School. i hate the yankees but they did it with good pitching and small ball. nothing like the yankees of this season.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well...Bobby Bonilla is nowhere close to being a HOF player. Bernie Williams is a lot closer, especially since he was a CF. His offensive numbers alone make him a much better candidate, IMO.

agreed,

but during the 3 WS the yankees won in the 90's, who would you say was more important with the bat than Bernie Williams?

I'm not sure. I don't really care as I don't think that three World Series, which constitute a miniscule fraction of a player's career, should be enough to put a player in the HOF...not that I'm saying you're saying that.

 

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: Coquito
Considering how they are voting in "pretty good" players now, instead of "great", it doesn't seem impossible. He wouldn't get my vote though.

who are the pretty good players?

 

[yankeesfan]

Bernie is 132.5 on the Hall of Fame monitor on baseball-reference.com, with 100 being a likely Hall of Famer.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
Well...Bobby Bonilla is nowhere close to being a HOF player. Bernie Williams is a lot closer, especially since he was a CF. His offensive numbers alone make him a much better candidate, IMO.

agreed,

but during the 3 WS the yankees won in the 90's, who would you say was more important with the bat than Bernie Williams?

I'm not sure. I don't really care as I don't think that three World Series, which constitute a miniscule fraction of a player's career, should be enough to put a player in the HOF...not that I'm saying you're saying that.

of course not, not on their own, but you can't deny that they could put a player over the top.

let's take Chipper Jones for example. arguably a much better offensive player than Bernie, but without the WS performances, doesn't bernie deserve a bit more credit than chipper?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: Coquito
Considering how they are voting in "pretty good" players now, instead of "great", it doesn't seem impossible. He wouldn't get my vote though.

who are the pretty good players?

Kirby Puckett, arguably the worst player to get in the HOF.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: Coquito
Considering how they are voting in "pretty good" players now, instead of "great", it doesn't seem impossible. He wouldn't get my vote though.

who are the pretty good players?

Kirby Puckett, arguably the worst player to get in the HOF.

I was going to mention Puckett...makes a better case for Bernie Williams...but if my argument was 'PlayerX is in the HOF so Bernie should be, too' then that would just be weak.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
of course not, not on their own, but you can't deny that they could put a player over the top.

let's take Chipper Jones for example. arguably a much better offensive player than Bernie, but without the WS performances, doesn't bernie deserve a bit more credit than chipper?

If you're saying that Chipper Jones is a 'much better offensive player' than Bernie Williams over the course of their careers, then I wouldn't put Williams at the top because of those WS appearances.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: Coquito
Considering how they are voting in "pretty good" players now, instead of "great", it doesn't seem impossible. He wouldn't get my vote though.

who are the pretty good players?

Kirby Puckett, arguably the worst player to get in the HOF.

I was going to mention Puckett...makes a better case for Bernie Williams...but if my argument was 'PlayerX is in the HOF so Bernie should be, too' then that would just be weak.

Rapheal Palmerio is a better player than Pucket. if Puckett hadn't played a big part in the WS win against atlanta, would he be in the HOF?

again, it seems WS performances do influence HOF voters.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: yankeesfan
Bernie is 132.5 on the Hall of Fame monitor on baseball-reference.com, with 100 being a likely Hall of Famer.

Oh come on...if you're going to mention that you might as well show the whole picture.

Black Ink: Batting - 4 (388) (Average HOFer ~ 27)
Gray Ink: Batting - 59 (399) (Average HOFer ~ 144)
HOF Standards: Batting - 43.6 (109) (Average HOFer ~ 50)
HOF Monitor: Batting - 132.5 (92) (Likely HOFer > 100)

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
of course not, not on their own, but you can't deny that they could put a player over the top.

let's take Chipper Jones for example. arguably a much better offensive player than Bernie, but without the WS performances, doesn't bernie deserve a bit more credit than chipper?

If you're saying that Chipper Jones is a 'much better offensive player' than Bernie Williams over the course of their careers, then I wouldn't put Williams at the top because of those WS appearances.

mb you wouldn't but i think it does influence HOF voters.

will dale murphy ever get HOF considerations?

notice all the braves references

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Rapheal Palmerio is a better player than Pucket. if Puckett hadn't played a big part in the WS win against atlanta, would he be in the HOF?

again, it seems WS performances do influence HOF voters.

I didn't say that it doesn't.

Personality influences HOF voters, too. However that doesn't mean that it should.

Puckett is in the HOF because he was a good player, had those WS memories, was likable, and had his career shortened by injury.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
mb you wouldn't but i think it does influence HOF voters.

will dale murphy ever get HOF considerations?

notice all the braves references

I never said it doesn't influence HOF voters.

Dale Murphy shouldn't get HOF considerations, but I'm sure he does from some people such as Braves fans.

 

[SludgeFactory]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Originally posted by: SludgeFactory

Originally posted by: Coquito
Considering how they are voting in "pretty good" players now, instead of "great", it doesn't seem impossible. He wouldn't get my vote though.

who are the pretty good players?

Kirby Puckett, arguably the worst player to get in the HOF.

well Hack Wilson comes to mind as being a lot worse

Puckett was a bit of a sympathy vote. In terms of getting in the HOF, the baseball writers' standards in recent times are generally very high. Playing in NYC, playing for the Yankees, and being on championship teams is a huge plus with the media. I'm sure Tino will get a few votes for the same reasons.

But I wouldn't be optimistic about Bernie making it, unless he hangs on a lot longer than it appears he will and adds to his career stats in a major way. He started declining dramatically at 33 or 34 which isn't real great for someone looking to amass HOF numbers.

 

[sciencewhiz]

I definetly like Bernie's .208 career batting average in the WS.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: sciencewhiz
I definetly like Bernie's .208 career batting average in the WS.

damn, don't confuse me with FACTS.

 

[PlatinumGold]

ok, if not bernie, than who?? which yankee of the 90's other than mariano and clemens would you pick to go to the HOF?

amazing when you think of it that way. they won 3 WS and mariano is the only legitimate superstar of the bunch (clemens was only there for one WS win).