Bernie Sanders Seattle Event forced to shut down by #blacklivesmatter

[Londo_Jowo]

Irrelevant youtube/website links

However, that's not what you claimed. You specifically said that "some here hinting getting in candidates faces and yelling is unique to #blacklivesmatter" and 404 none found in this thread. Who cares what others have done, it has absolutely nothing to do what was being discussed in this thread. You always feel the need to divert from what's being discussed when it comes to things that make you uncomfortable.

 

[cubby1223]

Conspiracies begin!
Either this was a setup by republicans? Black republicans?
Or the Hillary campaign?
Or the CIA, NSA, or... Donald Trump?

Anywho... this whole thing stinks to high heaven like a setup and something is very out of whack here.
The anger and the acts do not justify the means.
An odd one indeed....

Someone one, some thing, fears Sanders successfully making real headway.
I mean, you have the republicans doing MUCH MORE and with no humility what so ever against the very same group(s), and yet NOT ONE of the same protest occurs?
Republicans suppress the minority vote, the courts shoot down minority civil rights, and the republican controlled congress DOES NOTHING to full the gap.
YET...YET... Not one protest. Not one rally. From not one minority.
But still.... poor Bernie Sanders is the targeted one?

Something with this stinks to high heaven. I mean really stinks.

The real twist will be when no link to another's campaign will be found

Sometimes you protest those who are against you. Sometimes you protest those who are most likely to be persuaded by you.

 

[Indus]

Any time someone brings up the issue of civil rights, Bernie steers the conversation towards the economy. Can't respect someone who dodges issues.

The rich get richer and have 10 acre home complexes with the police kissing up to them at every turn and feeling guilty about giving them tickets when they want their autographs or jobs from them.

The middle class and the working poor get a ticket while driving at a stop sign even though they stopped. When they contest it, the judge says they still have to pay the fine.

Why are many cities economies based on citations/ fines and on how many people they incarcerate? Why is it not based on taxes from people/ companies who make above a million dollars a year?

So income inequality and how it's biased towards some is the issue..

 

[Greenman]

Sadly the people who are most hated become the most hateful. You become what you are told you are with violence. This is why, in my opinion, Obama's Amazing Grace speech was one of the best the country has seen. It was beyond profound.

It's also a declining spiral, the more you hate, the more you're hated.
The black community has some valid issues, but they frequently rally behind the poorest possible example.
The plan always seems to be "I'm going to punish myself until you do something about it".

I don't know the answers, but I do know that you don't win a fight by hitting your opponent's fist with your face.

 

[davmat787]

However, that's not what you claimed. You specifically said that "some here hinting getting in candidates faces and yelling is unique to #blacklivesmatter" and 404 none found in this thread. Who cares what others have done, it has absolutely nothing to do what was being discussed in this thread. You always feel the need to divert from what's being discussed when it comes to things that make you uncomfortable.

Is the need to minimize one groups behavior by equivocating it elsewhere a growing trend here in P&N? Like a disease I hope it's not spreading. I don't understand what drives this.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's also a declining spiral, the more you hate, the more you're hated.
The black community has some valid issues, but they frequently rally behind the poorest possible example.
The plan always seems to be "I'm going to punish myself until you do something about it".

I don't know the answers, but I do know that you don't win a fight by hitting your opponent's fist with your face.

I don't think that the point is to win. I think that if you take just one person who has a terrible self image you will find they feel defeated, that they can't win, that they are fucked and will always be fucked. If life has fucked you from day one when you cam into the world with all the human capacity for love and beauty and joy that is our birth right and to which we are still connected to in various capacities, what is the result. If, as I say, we were all psychically damaged as children then we all unconsciously know that a trauma or traumas ended our natural capacity for happiness.

The result, I believe, is that we unconsciously, therefore, seek to return to the time when that trauma(s) happened because we know that is the door back, but at the same time we are powerfully motivated not to remember and relive the actual events. The result of that is that we try instead to recreate the experience vicariously, so that we actually go though a similar experience.

The long and short of that is that we try to fuck ourselves as we were fucked to feel fucked We try unconsciously to cause ourselves to feel what we feel without knowing that is what we are doing. This is what it means to say, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

We all do this but to varying degrees. Think of sayings like, Just my luck, or Why does this always happen to me, If I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Take that one person and make the cause of his self hate appear to be racism and multiply by millions. You will have a minority, no matter the type. which if put down for minority features that are called evil, you will create a mass of people filled with an unconscious urge to destroy themselves. If you call them the n word they will become everything that word was meant to imply.

The simple truth is that the more a person has been made to hate who they are, the more dangerous they become to themselves and others.

And the disease is profoundly difficult to cure. In the first place we all have this disease and one of the features of hating oneself is that you really, unconsciously, don't want anybody else to get well. The cure is love and how are we going to love when we hate ourselves? The downward spiral also features an additional problem. The more you are hate the more you are hated, but the more you hate the less you will believe that anybody can love you or wants to help. The ultimate in self hate is to spit in the face of help.

Bernie Sanders is an almost perfect target.

 

[Moonbeam]

Well well well. Nothing changes. A whole crowd of people who's origin would be relatively easy to determine show their ignorance and once again as I suspected this would be spun as a genius level conspiracy by Republicans. This movement put these people up for it, and in their willful arrogance and purposeful ignorance they shut down the one person who most has their interests at heart. But suppose there is a conspiracy? Who benefits? The Republicans don't fear Bernie, but Hillary might want to deny him a voice. Hillary is ahead with blacks but there is no convincing argument that she is the voice of the people over Sanders.

Oh, hello to my buds here!

A ray of sunshine for me in an otherwise depressing thread. Hello to you, Hay. A joy to see you post.

 

[FelixDeCat]

:|

 

[HomerJS]

However, that's not what you claimed. You specifically said that "some here hinting getting in candidates faces and yelling is unique to #blacklivesmatter" and 404 none found in this thread. Who cares what others have done, it has absolutely nothing to do what was being discussed in this thread. You always feel the need to divert from what's being discussed when it comes to things that make you uncomfortable.

There are hints/inferences all over this one...

The Black Lives Matter movement will end up embarrassing itself as these things normally do, with the members booing comments like "White lives matter too," and defending convenience store robber Michael Brown and attempted murderer Saint Trayvon Martin.

It would be nice to see the black community stop blaming whitey and accept some personal responsibility for the self-inflicted root causes of their social and economic ills things such as babies having babies, drug addiction, and bad parentage, etc.

I did misread your reply but my point people are discounting their cause by criticizing their methods.

 

[davmat787]

I did misread your reply but my point people are discounting their cause by criticizing their methods.

What's wrong with that? Just because a group feels their message is righteous doesn't give them license to spread it in any manner they wish or prevent others from having their say. MLK understood this better than anyone and preached non violence and civil disobedience, both used to the civil rights movement advantage.

The near total capitulation and unwillingness to be fairly critical due to fear of being labeled racist is allowing behavior to continue and escalate that would be smacked down if other groups behaved in a similar manner.

Do they want to air their frustrations and message in hopes of solutions or continue down the road of intimidating and silencing others with near zero accountability so they can feel righteous indignation?

The mentality that they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions because their message is righteous is childish and will only harm their cause in the end if not already.

 

[Greenman]

I don't think that the point is to win. I think that if you take just one person who has a terrible self image you will find they feel defeated, that they can't win, that they are fucked and will always be fucked. If life has fucked you from day one when you cam into the world with all the human capacity for love and beauty and joy that is our birth right and to which we are still connected to in various capacities, what is the result. If, as I say, we were all psychically damaged as children then we all unconsciously know that a trauma or traumas ended our natural capacity for happiness.

The result, I believe, is that we unconsciously, therefore, seek to return to the time when that trauma(s) happened because we know that is the door back, but at the same time we are powerfully motivated not to remember and relive the actual events. The result of that is that we try instead to recreate the experience vicariously, so that we actually go though a similar experience.

The long and short of that is that we try to fuck ourselves as we were fucked to feel fucked We try unconsciously to cause ourselves to feel what we feel without knowing that is what we are doing. This is what it means to say, "We have met the enemy and he is us."

We all do this but to varying degrees. Think of sayings like, Just my luck, or Why does this always happen to me, If I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Take that one person and make the cause of his self hate appear to be racism and multiply by millions. You will have a minority, no matter the type. which if put down for minority features that are called evil, you will create a mass of people filled with an unconscious urge to destroy themselves. If you call them the n word they will become everything that word was meant to imply.

The simple truth is that the more a person has been made to hate who they are, the more dangerous they become to themselves and others.

And the disease is profoundly difficult to cure. In the first place we all have this disease and one of the features of hating oneself is that you really, unconsciously, don't want anybody else to get well. The cure is love and how are we going to love when we hate ourselves? The downward spiral also features an additional problem. The more you are hate the more you are hated, but the more you hate the less you will believe that anybody can love you or wants to help. The ultimate in self hate is to spit in the face of help.

Bernie Sanders is an almost perfect target.

You know Moonie, to a large extant I agree with everything you've said here. Most wounds are self inflected, and a lot of people never crack that code. Which brings up another old saying, "don't cut off your nose to spite your face".

 

[cubby1223]

I did misread your reply but my point people are discounting their cause by criticizing their methods.

A quick comparison you could probably agree with - the overall ideology of conservatism is a noble one, a worthy goal, limited government, freedom for individuals. But a lot of the shit done in the name of obtaining those goals is wrong. The ends do not always justify the means.

As to your own comments, who here is advocating inequality for blacks? Who here believes they should be forgotten on the basis of skin color?

People are not discounting the overall cause of the movement. But plenty of people are making excuses after excuses after excuses for any and every wrong means (or methods) that takes place, believing that a criticism of any of the means is a criticism of the ends.

It's not true, and it's been said time and time and time again on this forum, to the point of total exhaustion. It's massively unproductive.

 

[TheGardener]

Poor Bernie. He's no Ronald Reagan. That man took no chit. But then again, Bernie has no shot in hell of winning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd_KaF3-Bcw

Conspiracies begin!
Either this was a setup by republicans? Black republicans?
Or the Hillary campaign?
Or the CIA, NSA, or... Donald Trump?

Not buying a conspiracy. I think it is, what it is. Then again, if a top flight leader was responsible, you would be better off looking to Obama.

 

[waggy]

Any time someone brings up the issue of civil rights, Bernie steers the conversation towards the economy. Can't respect someone who dodges issues.

I don't think he is dodging it at all. I think he is looking at it from what he can actually do. he can't make black men be daddies, he can't have them reduce violence. etc..

All he can do is hopefully help the economy and get more opportunity for the poor. I also feel he is right. Give more of a chance to get a good job. More young men will work and hopefully graduate. in turn do what they can for the children.

As for police violence against people? shit i don't think anything short of a total revamp of every police department is going to fix it.

 

[Aikouka]

Not only that, but I think you have to really put yourself in the shoes of the community. They've been dealing with unequal treatment by the police and justice system for generations. To them, it was just another time where a police officer shoots an unarmed black kid with no repercussion for the officer. I don't blame them one bit for being pissed off (even if the officer was in the right) because they have lost faith in the ability of the system to act in a race-blind manner. And the police shouldn't be acting like a force from a dystopian movie, occasionally going into a community with a 'show of force'. They need to work with the community and rebuild trust.

I think part of our problem is that white on black crime is such a good, sensationalist news story that it gets a ton of focus in the media. This may sound like a dumb, obvious thing, but cops are people too, and you're going to find the same attributes among them: sexist, racist, etc. What's unfortunate is that we're practically stereotyping cops in certain areas -- I'd say probably the central and eastern parts of the southern US. I wonder if this problem is nearly as systemic as some people would like us to believe.

 

[cubby1223]

Any time someone brings up the issue of civil rights, Bernie steers the conversation towards the economy. Can't respect someone who dodges issues.

The economy is the solution. Everything else is hand outs and well wishing. Short-term boost, but unproductive for the long-haul. Economic issues are slow-going but more stable for long-term benefit.

 

[Brainonska511]

I think part of our problem is that white on black crime is such a good, sensationalist news story that it gets a ton of focus in the media. This may sound like a dumb, obvious thing, but cops are people too, and you're going to find the same attributes among them: sexist, racist, etc. What's unfortunate is that we're practically stereotyping cops in certain areas -- I'd say probably the central and eastern parts of the southern US. I wonder if this problem is nearly as systemic as some people would like us to believe.

Considering that whites and blacks use pot at roughly the same rate, yet blacks are disproportionately represented in marijuana arrests and prison sentences, and that tactics like stop and frisk disproportionately targeted minorities, I would say that the evidence is present to show that there is indeed a systemic problem.

 

[unokitty]

Clinton capitalizing on Bernie Sanders's 'black problem'?

For Hillary Clinton, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is a campaign obstacle she didn't see coming: a surprisingly formidable opponent in the 2016 Democratic primary race who happens to be a media darling, fundraising powerhouse, and bona fide progressive who excites a Democratic base disillusioned by President Obama.

So how does the once-presumed 2016 frontrunner, Mrs. Clinton, go after a dark-horse candidate who appears to have disrupted her direct path to the nomination?

To paraphrase former President Bill Clinton, it's race, stupid...

A June 22 NBC/Wall Street Journal poll showed 95 percent of nonwhite Democratic voters said they could see themselves supporting Clinton for the nomination, support Clinton is working hard to cement, the Times reported...

The perception of Sanders is markedly different.

“The Bernie Sanders voter is still a Volvo-driving, financially comfortable liberal who is pretty much white,” Paul Maslin, a pollster who worked for the 2004 presidential campaign of Vermont’s last Democratic contender, Howard Dean, told the Times. “I don’t see how Bernie takes large numbers of black voters away from Hillary Clinton, and he needs to if he wants any shot at the nomination.”

Can nonwhite Democratic voters support a 'Volvo-driving, financially comfortable liberal who is pretty much white?'

Uno

 

[Moonbeam]

You know Moonie, to a large extant I agree with everything you've said here. Most wounds are self inflected, and a lot of people never crack that code. Which brings up another old saying, "don't cut off your nose to spite your face".

Yes but don't tell that to the drowning man you are swimming to save. He won't hear you and will try to climb on your head.

 

[LegendKiller]

Considering that whites and blacks use pot at roughly the same rate, yet blacks are disproportionately represented in marijuana arrests and prison sentences, and that tactics like stop and frisk disproportionately targeted minorities, I would say that the evidence is present to show that there is indeed a systemic problem.

Yeah, because they are just peachy otherwise. That's why they commit the vast majority of murders in Chicago and other cities. Liberals are quick to blame cops but far less quick to blame the society as a whole. Commit more crimes and act poorly and youll get more attention. Idle hands are the Devils playground.

Give them jobs, give them respect. Take the jobs away from illegals.

 

[davmat787]

Clinton capitalizing on Bernie Sanders's 'black problem'?
Can nonwhite Democratic voters support a 'Volvo-driving, financially comfortable liberal who is pretty much white?'

Uno

Depends if they apply critical thinking to both the platforms and history of Sanders and Clinton. A blind analysis of the two candidates wouldn't have a 95%/5% split in black voter support, Sanders would have much more minority support if I had to guess. Clinton benefits from name recognition and the media's attention of course.

 

[Moonbeam]

Depends if they apply critical thinking to both the platforms and history of Sanders and Clinton. A blind analysis of the two candidates wouldn't have a 95%/5% split in black voter support, Sanders would have much more minority support if I had to guess. Clinton benefits from name recognition and the media's attention of course.

Personally, I think that if we want to apply critical thinking to the issue, Sanders would get 95 percent of all votes.

 

[cubby1223]

Personally, I think that if we want to apply critical thinking to the issue, Sanders would get 95 percent of all votes.

But everyone says this.

"If we all agreed to be honest, everyone would side with me."

Your posts doesn't differentiate yourself from all the others who say the same thing just coming in from a different context.

Bernie Sanders gets to say all the great things because it's easy when you are not in a position of authority nor responsibility. It's like Obama and Guantanamo Bay, it's very easy to talk all day long about how we need to close the facility down, it's a whole other ballgame when you are actually tasked with completing it and realizing there are inherent problems blocking the ability to shut the base down.

Sanders right now has it easy because he is a part of a fringe political party (yes, the socialist wing of the Democrats are fringe, they don't have much power in D.C., besides he runs as independent anyways, very few independents in D.C.). Put his group in power, you will see quickly he and the party has flaws in the execution of his ideology just like everyone else.

 

[werepossum]

Well well well. Nothing changes. A whole crowd of people who's origin would be relatively easy to determine show their ignorance and once again as I suspected this would be spun as a genius level conspiracy by Republicans. This movement put these people up for it, and in their willful arrogance and purposeful ignorance they shut down the one person who most has their interests at heart. But suppose there is a conspiracy? Who benefits? The Republicans don't fear Bernie, but Hillary might want to deny him a voice. Hillary is ahead with blacks but there is no convincing argument that she is the voice of the people over Sanders.

Oh, hello to my buds here!

You are correct that obviously the Pubbies wouldn't want to sabotage Bernie. You may be right that Hillary has incentive to orchestrate this, but I'm still betting that they hit her events too. I guess we will see how it works out. If I am guessing correctly though, Hillary too will be hit. In that case, I don't we are seeing their ignorance so much as their desperation.

Good to see you back.

Any time someone brings up the issue of civil rights, Bernie steers the conversation towards the economy. Can't respect someone who dodges issues.

Interesting. You maintain not only that this likely will be limited to Bernie, but also that he deserves it. Problem for the Black Lives Matter crowd is that if they don't also hit Hillary, then looks like a Hillary-driven political movement and while she may lock down the black vote, it probably hurts her with non-blacks. Especially so given that this movement has been so antithetical to expanding to other races; coupled with their choices in celebrity victims, this isn't going to make non-blacks very brickle about supporting the candidate singing this tune.

I think part of our problem is that white on black crime is such a good, sensationalist news story that it gets a ton of focus in the media. This may sound like a dumb, obvious thing, but cops are people too, and you're going to find the same attributes among them: sexist, racist, etc. What's unfortunate is that we're practically stereotyping cops in certain areas -- I'd say probably the central and eastern parts of the southern US. I wonder if this problem is nearly as systemic as some people would like us to believe.

Well said, but none of this exists in a vacuum. The same legitimate factors that lead cops to more often target blacks give blacks more reason to hate and fear cops. That is one big problem with group identity politics, it targets everyone who can be identified by those superficial characteristics regardless of their personal characteristics. Works in both directions - that same mechanic is why the Beltway snipers evaded arrest so many times, cops were looking for a lone white guy because everyone knows that snipers are lone white guys - but it hits poor minorities hardest. That public defender is a lot less likely to get you into that deferred adjudication drug rehab program than the $300 an hour attorney.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just looking in on this, it continues some topics brought up in the recent "Why do blacks/African-Americans always vote Democrat(ic)?"

Trying to show equivalence between so-called "black-racism" and the longstanding tradition of the contrary is an apples and oranges situation.

First, African Americans as a percentage of the entire US population is just under 14% -- no different than 10 years ago. Being in an identifiable minority - which by itself tends to choose common neighborhoods despite ending housing discrimination a long time ago, is a completely different situation than being the majority.

Second, there's a long history of abuse of the minority population by local police, and as I said on the other thread -- my community literally rounded up three black men who had never met each other before in a dragnet to reach "closure" on the shooting of two policemen in 1971.

But each case can be different. The Martin shooting is different from that of Michael Brown. Given the long history, there is no less a mass-psychology arising in these shootings than there was during the "Black Panther" era for railroading three innocent men, but it is a psychology of black populations.

Darren Wilson in another community context may not have been left with a future more likely to taste like dirt. But the problem with the local police was a result of factors that needed attention.

But trying to analyze this issue of race in suggesting that there's "black racism" or shooting incidents that are deemed less newsworthy -- it isn't based on any kind of equivalent experience. It's an attempt to objectify an issue without acknowledging the differences and the history. In other words, it's nothing but political spin because Reverend Al and Jesse Jackson are jumping on a bandwagon, or there isn't any outrage over "black on black" crime. It's a denial of one thing, and -- only possibly -- the denial of something additional.