Bernie Sanders is quite literally a Nazi

[cbrunny]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Nazi+war+Economy

 

[woolfe9998]

That is you claim. Do you have anything to back up your claim?

How about you proving yours first, since you're the first person to make a statement about why the German economy improved under the Nazis?

I would amend my statement to add the following: it was actually more than one variable. I meant that military production, and conscription, were the largest drivers in reducing unemployment in the 1930's.

 

[woolfe9998]

http://www.ihr.org/other/economyhitler2011.html

Be careful with that particular source. It's a pro-Nazi source, so it's likely skewed toward making the Nazis look like economic miracle workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

 

[cbrunny]

Be careful with that particular source. It's a pro-Nazi source, so it's likely skewed toward making the Nazis look like economic miracle workers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

I just googled. lol no idea of the source at all.

EDIT: I'll remove those quotes.

 

[Genx87]

http://www.ihr.org/other/economyhitler2011.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

I will have to go find my sources. But I remember real wages plummeted in the mid to late 30s under Nazi leadership. Their deficit spending was also catching up to them which fast forwarded their war efforts. Nothing unifies a country more than war and crisis. They also needed to steal wealth from conquered nations to pay for their economic policy post 1933.

Their biggest driver of reducing unemployment was expansion of the military\conscription and public works projects.

 

[soulcougher73]

All Hail Fuhrer Sanders

 

[Jaskalas]

All Hail Fuhrer Sanders

Would he, or would he not be owned by Wall Street?
Could be worth it.

 

[Blackjack200]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Historical_Review

I will have to go find my sources. But I remember real wages plummeted in the mid to late 30s under Nazi leadership. Their deficit spending was also catching up to them which fast forwarded their war efforts. Nothing unifies a country more than war and crisis. They also needed to steal wealth from conquered nations to pay for their economic policy post 1933.

Their biggest driver of reducing unemployment was expansion of the military\conscription and public works projects.

Wow man, I didn't even realize you were that old.

 

[BurnItDwn]

Stalin and Hitler were best friends since the national socialists and the communists were the same, just like democratic socialists! Thats why they attacked poland, because they are best friends. The 30 million dead soviets and battle of stalingrad and moscow and the whole thing with the berlin wall, that was phony/planted by Bernie so that he could nazi us!

 

[realibrad]

How about you proving yours first, since you're the first person to make a statement about why the German economy improved under the Nazis?

I would amend my statement to add the following: it was actually more than one variable. I meant that military production, and conscription, were the largest drivers in reducing unemployment in the 1930's.

You are working off the presupposition that reducing unemployment improved the economy. You likely think this because you live in a mainly free market country where unemployment reduction is a signal that the economy is demanding more labor. Germany did not reduce its unemployment because of economic growth, and its reduction in unemployment did not inherently cause economic growth.

The consequence was an extremely rapid decline in unemployment – the most rapid decline in unemployment in any country during the Great Depression.[23] But whether this helped the average German is a matter of debate—while more Germans had jobs, a focus on rearmament meant rationing in food, clothing, metal, and wood [31] for most citizens

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany#cite_note-31

wikipedia sourced this claim. You can find it on page 411 of this link

https://books.google.com/books?id=i...s, and War." The Third Reich in Power&f=false

The German economy collapsed post WWI because of the reparations put on it. They had to pay in money, and goods which held back its economy. When the country stopped paying back reparations, the economy grew again. It is true that the people were put back to work, but they were put to work building up the military which did not help the economy as things were rationed. Wealth did not increase because the government took the wealth.

 

[Brian Stirling]

Stalin and Hitler were best friends since the national socialists and the communists were the same, just like democratic socialists! Thats why they attacked poland, because they are best friends. The 30 million dead soviets and battle of stalingrad and moscow and the whole thing with the berlin wall, that was phony/planted by Bernie so that he could nazi us!

Well as the German tanks and aircraft entered Soviet territory I guess there love affair came to an end. Hitler made deals of convenience many times including with the Prime Minister of Great Britain. You know, piece in our time and all...

Read Hitlers writings, he made it clear he hated commies...


Brian

 

[woolfe9998]

You are working off the presupposition that reducing unemployment improved the economy. You likely think this because you live in a mainly free market country where unemployment reduction is a signal that the economy is demanding more labor. Germany did not reduce its unemployment because of economic growth, and its reduction in unemployment did not inherently cause economic growth.



wikipedia sourced this claim. You can find it on page 411 of this link

https://books.google.com/books?id=i...s, and War." The Third Reich in Power&f=false

The German economy collapsed post WWI because of the reparations put on it. They had to pay in money, and goods which held back its economy. When the country stopped paying back reparations, the economy grew again. It is true that the people were put back to work, but they were put to work building up the military which did not help the economy as things were rationed. Wealth did not increase because the government took the wealth.

I can't pinpoint from that source you cite. It's excerpts from googlebooks.

However, I don't understand your emphasis on reparations. The reparations certainly damaged the German economy during the 1920's. The payment schedule had to be reorganized at least twice in the 1920's to reduce yearly payments because Germany was defaulting. Most importantly, the reparations were ended shortly before Hitler even came to power. There was a disagreement among the allied powers with the US and Britain favoring an end to reparations and the French opposing. IIRC they finally decided that one final payment from Germany would do. I can't recall how much they actually paid, but is was over before the Nazis came to power, or right on the brink of it. Google Versailles reparations and you'll come up with plenty of information.

There is some variation of opinion as to the importance of various factors in reducing German unemployment. However, the factors most often cited are first, a New Deal style public works program helped, and later on, it was rearmament.

http://gdc.gale.com/archivesunbound...nomy-and-war-in-the-third-reich-19331944-the/

Hitler himself had very little to do with any of this as he wasn't interested in economics at all except to the extent that it affected armaments production.

I do agree with you that the near elimination of unemployment did not necessarily equate to an improved standard of living in Germany. I should have been clearer on that point.

 

[MrPickins]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Nazi

The 24th edition of Etymologisches Wörterbuch der deutschen Sprache (2002) says the word Nazi was favored in southern Germany (supposedly from c. 1924) among opponents of National Socialism because the nickname Nazi, Naczi (from the masc. proper name Ignatz, German form of Ignatius) was used colloquially to mean "a foolish person, clumsy or awkward person." Ignatz was a popular name in Catholic Austria, and according to one source in World War I Nazi was a generic name in the German Empire for the soldiers of Austria-Hungary.

"Nazi" was originally an insult. Just an interesting factoid.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

"Nazi" was originally an insult.

It still is.

 

[realibrad]

I can't pinpoint from that source you cite. It's excerpts from googlebooks.

However, I don't understand your emphasis on reparations. The reparations certainly damaged the German economy during the 1920's. The payment schedule had to be reorganized at least twice in the 1920's to reduce yearly payments because Germany was defaulting. Most importantly, the reparations were ended shortly before Hitler even came to power. There was a disagreement among the allied powers with the US and Britain favoring an end to reparations and the French opposing. IIRC they finally decided that one final payment from Germany would do. I can't recall how much they actually paid, but is was over before the Nazis came to power, or right on the brink of it. Google Versailles reparations and you'll come up with plenty of information.

There is some variation of opinion as to the importance of various factors in reducing German unemployment. However, the factors most often cited are first, a New Deal style public works program helped, and later on, it was rearmament.

http://gdc.gale.com/archivesunbound...nomy-and-war-in-the-third-reich-19331944-the/

Hitler himself had very little to do with any of this as he wasn't interested in economics at all except to the extent that it affected armaments production.

I do agree with you that the near elimination of unemployment did not necessarily equate to an improved standard of living in Germany. I should have been clearer on that point.

The reparations were the major factor that drove the Germans to mass produce currency which caused the hyper inflation that wrecked the economy. The ending of the reparations allowed the economy to work again as it was not being bleed.

My point was that the economy was not benefited by the Nazis as was claimed. The main driver was the fact that German industry was not damaged much during WWI and when the reparations were lifted Germany was allowed to go back to being the global powerhouse it once was.

However, the factors most often cited are first, a New Deal style public works program helped, and later on, it was rearmament.

The public works program came before the Nazis as well, and thus cannot be attributed to the Nazis. My whole point is that the Nazis did not improve the economy as claimed.

It was mainly Hitler's war production in the 1930's which brought the German economy back.

So, are you going to back up your claim?

 

[BurnItDwn]

Well as the German tanks and aircraft entered Soviet territory I guess there love affair came to an end. Hitler made deals of convenience many times including with the Prime Minister of Great Britain. You know, piece in our time and all...

Read Hitlers writings, he made it clear he hated commies...


Brian

Brian,
Obviously.

The diabolical hatred between facism and communism is legendary. Hitler and Stalin had a very tenuous relationship while they shared in Poland's riches. The whole time Stalin was mobilizing and preparing for invasion, and Hitler was doing the whole Htler thing. Then, UK shot down some planes and said NO BAD HITLER. They sunk his boats as well so he gave up on his dream of a vacation in Dover.

My whole point is that the entire "Bernie Sanders is a Nazi" is ludicrous and insane beyond mention. Nazism might have the word Socialist in the name, but its about as honest as the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea. (Thats the "north" one, run by the insane lunatic who kills family members for disagreeing with him)


The nazis and communists are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Sanders is clearly neither.

I was not shooting for sarcasm, but to make a point about just how inane the entire thread is.


Sorry if my statement seemed plausible/passable as a "statement made by idiot", that was not my intent.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

In reality, the Nazis were privatizing sectors that were originally managed by the state:

http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf

That's not Socialism. But they weren't exactly Capitalist either. Their economic model was Fascist. To sum it up, they left things alone if they were working along side the regime's policies, but they wouldn't hesitate to get involved in the market if they felt the need to. Capitalists view the economy/market as a separate organism from the government/Nation, and that's not what the Nazis believed. In a Fascist economy, there might be some private enterprise going on, but they have to be towing the regimes policies or they're out of business.

Ironically, the economic principles neoconservatives subscribe to is closer to Nazi economics than the Socialists they're dead set on comparing them to.

It makes more sense to look at economic extremes as points on a triangle rather than left or right. The 3 corners would be Capitalism, Socialism and Fascism, IMO.

 

[MongGrel]

The Chinese are Communist and Capitalist, I really haven't see anyone say much valid along those lines and do much of the US GOP backed corporations have dumped so much money into China.

I hear people rant about "waaaaaa Socialism" When China is Communist and just gets so much US funding Corporately.

It's pathetic.

It's some game played buy CEO's these days, more or less.

Politicians are just pawns.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

The moment China opened its borders to the global economy, and foreign investment, they ceased being Communist. IMO China now resembles something closer to a Fascist economy. Because the government still maintains control over the market if they see fit. Some industry is privatized, while others are still state owned. It can be like that in a Fascist economy.

 

[MongGrel]

The moment China opened its borders to the global economy, and foreign investment, they ceased being Communist. IMO China now resembles something closer to a Fascist economy. Because the government still maintains control over the market if they see fit. Some industry is privatized, while others are still state owned. It can be like that in a Fascist economy.

So I guess you are claiming that China isn't communist.

I guess I can just say that the US is a Plutocracy and be just as valid I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

 

[IronWing]

The moment China opened its borders to the global economy, and foreign investment, they ceased being Communist. IMO China now resembles something closer to a Fascist economy. Because the government still maintains control over the market if they see fit. Some industry is privatized, while others are still state owned. It can be like that in a Fascist economy.

So I guess you are claiming that China isn't communist.

China went into Tianamen Square as a communist state and emerged as a fascist state.

 

[Chaotic0ne]

I guess I can just say that the US is a Plutocracy and be just as valid I guess.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutocracy

I think this is closer to what the USA is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy

But Plutocracy isn't too far off either. Maybe the real truth is somewhere between those two. Both are as a result of Capitalism in its advanced stages.

 

[woolfe9998]

The reparations were the major factor that drove the Germans to mass produce currency which caused the hyper inflation that wrecked the economy. The ending of the reparations allowed the economy to work again as it was not being bleed.

Yes, those reparations caused money printing which caused hyperinflation. That, however, was resolved in the 1920's before Hitler took power. Principally it was resolved with reorganization plans which substantially reduced annual payments. At the time Hitler took power, the reparations were gone and were no longer a factor affecting the German economy. So whatever happened with that economy after the Nazis took power, for good or for ill, had little if anything to do with reparations.

My point was that the economy was not benefited by the Nazis as was claimed. The main driver was the fact that German industry was not damaged much during WWI and when the reparations were lifted Germany was allowed to go back to being the global powerhouse it once was.

There are a number of ways to measure an economy. What I've read suggests differing views on the benefits of Nazi policy. What is pretty clear is that with respect to unemployment, it was first public works (yes, a continuation of earlier policies) and later, rearmament.

The public works program came before the Nazis as well, and thus cannot be attributed to the Nazis. My whole point is that the Nazis did not improve the economy as claimed.

It's a debatable point and you're entitled to that opinion. You might even be correct. However, what is pretty clear is that Nazi rearmament did in fact substantially reduce unemployment. Conscription alone provided jobs for millions.

So, are you going to back up your claim?

No, I'm clarifying that I'm discussing unemployment. The general state of the economy is too complex an issue and I'm not going to take a position on it. Reparations, however, played no part after 1932 because they were gone.

 

[werepossum]

Bernie has no chance, it's all fun and games with socialist and billionaire douchebags for the first few months but eventually people will end up putting their big boy pants on and rally around another scumbag politician. The country has no hope, but I'd at least like them to lie to me about pissing the future away rather than have someone like Bernie Sanders running on the frickin platform.

I dunno, a socialist who admits he is a socialist is at least a novelty.

I would have said he at least he is honest until he spun Trump's anti-illegal platform as being afraid of someone because they were born in another country - that's amazingly dishonest.

National Socialism pretty much died with the Third Reich. It doesn't have much in common with most flavors of Western Socialism, and its outstanding characteristics are so atypical that pretty much no one is literally a National Socialist, not even the skinhead pretenders.

 

[werepossum]

China went into Tianamen Square as a communist state and emerged as a fascist state.

There is very little difference between a communist state and a fascist state. When you reach the extremes of centralized power, all ideologies are functionally equivalent.

Yes, those reparations caused money printing which caused hyperinflation. That, however, was resolved in the 1920's before Hitler took power. Principally it was resolved with reorganization plans which substantially reduced annual payments. At the time Hitler took power, the reparations were gone and were no longer a factor affecting the German economy. So whatever happened with that economy after the Nazis took power, for good or for ill, had little if anything to do with reparations.

There are a number of ways to measure an economy. What I've read suggests differing views on the benefits of Nazi policy. What is pretty clear is that with respect to unemployment, it was first public works (yes, a continuation of earlier policies) and later, rearmament.

It's a debatable point and you're entitled to that opinion. You might even be correct. However, what is pretty clear is that Nazi rearmament did in fact substantially reduce unemployment. Conscription alone provided jobs for millions.

No, I'm clarifying that I'm discussing unemployment. The general state of the economy is too complex an issue and I'm not going to take a position on it. Reparations, however, played no part after 1932 because they were gone.

War is always good for the economy until you lose. Or sometimes, until you win and find out that you have slashed your work force (often literally) and specialized in building things no one now needs, but that still beats losing.