That's what it SHOULD be about. But money and politics have a habit of ruining everything. The cynical part of me says the ancient greeks were no different, despite egalitarianism they supposedly held themselves to.
That's what it SHOULD be about. But money and politics have a habit of ruining everything. The cynical part of me says the ancient greeks were no different, despite egalitarianism they supposedly held themselves to.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
You have impressed me a lot with this post. It is rare to see such open critisism of ones own nation even thought it is all true.
It's no secret that the eugenics laws of the US at the time forced sterilization of certain groups, disallowed Jews to enter the nation and had a lot of other strange shit going on but it IS rare that an American even acknowledges it and much more rare that he'd actually bring it up.
Injustice is injustice and thank you Genx87 for standing up. I applaud you for it.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
Originally posted by: noto12ious
at least you admit it's a dictatorship
funny. if china's so bad, why do billions continue to live in it?
you have yet to disprove anything i said. go ahead and try. i'll enjoy watching you fail.
Sometimes really retarded people enter the internet, you can witness the result above.
There are Americans on this board criticizing America ALL THE TIME. What makes his post so special?Sport emerged from warfare and politics. It was a way for warriors to demonstrate their prowess without killing each other, and a way for rival political groups to show off their strength. Yes, you had civilian games, but they were not considered sport.
The Greeks pacified sports quite a bit compared to what other nations were doing at the time. No human or animal sacrifice, fighting to the death, or tossing around severed heads, etc. The politics and profit motive, however, remained.
JohnOfSheffield
Lifer
- Jun 26, 2007
- 11,925
- 2
- 0
Originally posted by: Dari
You really don't get it, do you?
It's about the time of the second world war and how the US acted in that period of time.
Usually all you hear is US über alles! When it comes to that time, the acknowlegement that the US did indead use laws that influenced Nazi Germany is a big one that very few are willing to make, the truth is that initially Hitler was thought of as a Hero in the US and for that very reason the US would not want to get involved until Hitler himself could reach an agreement with Roosevelt.
There are very few who acknowledge this well known fact and so i am impressed that a man like Genx87, a good man, obviously, but also a man who has tried to negate the impact of the Iraq war and the lies that were made to build up to it, that he admits something like this about his own country... i'm impressed.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with critisising America but all to do with admitting what has happened, something most Americans, just like us Brits, are not too good at doing.
sunzt
Diamond Member
- Nov 27, 2003
- 3,076
- 3
- 81
Sheesh some of you guys really love to hate, especially hating China.
You know, it's ironic. After Mao, Chinese people have always been very friendly and were very intrigued by western people. They want to meet and make friends with westerners. It was a positive and exciting thing to meet an American/westerner. They would have a great interest and excitement in visiting western nations. Yet, during the past few years or so, the intense one-way biased hatred that westerners are showing towards China, the Olympics, and even the culture has pushed the Chinese people to really think negatively about westerners. It's really a shock to them that westerners hate their country so much, especially since the people have done nothing to make you hate them. It took an 8.0 quake that killed tens of thousands for (most) westerners to put politics aside, but that only lasted for a short while until all the hatred returned.
This one way attitude from the west and their intense efforts to highlight all the negative aspects, while ignoring any progress on those issues, has greatly increased the culture gap between the two culture. The Chinese people try to bridge the gap by eagerly learning English, western culture, and its history; however it seems that westerners don't want to narrow the culture gap and are pushing themselves (or China) away.
Many say that they only hate the government and not the people. That's understandable, but the government's leadership has resulted in the most massive human rights improvements in history by lifting over 400 million people out of poverty in less than 30 years! "Since 1981, the estimated share of the population living on less than US$1 per day has been slashed from 64 per cent to 16 per cent,lifting over 400 million people out of absolute poverty." source That's greater than the entire population of America. Granted it's not touching everyone equally, but in a nation of 1.3 billion you can't expect everything to be sorted out and everyone to be out of poverty so soon. Regardless, it's an incredible achievement worth tolerating the current government.
Success for China is seen as a bad thing in America even though it's the American consumers who are funding their success. Cheap products are what's keeping American inflation to a minimum during the current recession, and the downturn in 2003. There are never any reports of positive news about China. Every news piece has been tied to "Communism", human rights, Tibet, Sudan, or some other issue that most Chinese can really care less about. Anything positive about China is usually reported with great suspicion or caution. I'll tell you that those issues are not high on the list of priorities. China has much more important issues to deal with such as
1. Meeting energy demand and securing sources of energy (oil especially)
2. Adapting to the huge domestic demographic shift due to the one-child policy
3. Controlling economic growth and inflation
4. Cleaning up its environment and becoming more efficient
Tackling any one of those challenges would take a major toll on any country including the US, and it would require many years of commitment and investment to solve those problems. The good news is that the government has already made many inroads in all of those challenges.
Many Chinese people will still welcome you to China and be friendly to you. However, they now understand that you don't respect nor understand the country, the culture, or its people.
Westerners fail to realize that China cannot be fully understood unless you understand the history and background of China. Chinese people have been through thousands of years of good and bad rulers and governments, including Democracy. Having to live with the current government rules and regulations for a century is worth it when it improves the lives of Chinese people and turns a wrecked nation into one of the most powerful players in the world, especially since a century isn't that long a time compared to the rest of its history.
You know, it's ironic. After Mao, Chinese people have always been very friendly and were very intrigued by western people. They want to meet and make friends with westerners. It was a positive and exciting thing to meet an American/westerner. They would have a great interest and excitement in visiting western nations. Yet, during the past few years or so, the intense one-way biased hatred that westerners are showing towards China, the Olympics, and even the culture has pushed the Chinese people to really think negatively about westerners. It's really a shock to them that westerners hate their country so much, especially since the people have done nothing to make you hate them. It took an 8.0 quake that killed tens of thousands for (most) westerners to put politics aside, but that only lasted for a short while until all the hatred returned.
This one way attitude from the west and their intense efforts to highlight all the negative aspects, while ignoring any progress on those issues, has greatly increased the culture gap between the two culture. The Chinese people try to bridge the gap by eagerly learning English, western culture, and its history; however it seems that westerners don't want to narrow the culture gap and are pushing themselves (or China) away.
Many say that they only hate the government and not the people. That's understandable, but the government's leadership has resulted in the most massive human rights improvements in history by lifting over 400 million people out of poverty in less than 30 years! "Since 1981, the estimated share of the population living on less than US$1 per day has been slashed from 64 per cent to 16 per cent,lifting over 400 million people out of absolute poverty." source That's greater than the entire population of America. Granted it's not touching everyone equally, but in a nation of 1.3 billion you can't expect everything to be sorted out and everyone to be out of poverty so soon. Regardless, it's an incredible achievement worth tolerating the current government.
Success for China is seen as a bad thing in America even though it's the American consumers who are funding their success. Cheap products are what's keeping American inflation to a minimum during the current recession, and the downturn in 2003. There are never any reports of positive news about China. Every news piece has been tied to "Communism", human rights, Tibet, Sudan, or some other issue that most Chinese can really care less about. Anything positive about China is usually reported with great suspicion or caution. I'll tell you that those issues are not high on the list of priorities. China has much more important issues to deal with such as
1. Meeting energy demand and securing sources of energy (oil especially)
2. Adapting to the huge domestic demographic shift due to the one-child policy
3. Controlling economic growth and inflation
4. Cleaning up its environment and becoming more efficient
Tackling any one of those challenges would take a major toll on any country including the US, and it would require many years of commitment and investment to solve those problems. The good news is that the government has already made many inroads in all of those challenges.
Many Chinese people will still welcome you to China and be friendly to you. However, they now understand that you don't respect nor understand the country, the culture, or its people.
Westerners fail to realize that China cannot be fully understood unless you understand the history and background of China. Chinese people have been through thousands of years of good and bad rulers and governments, including Democracy. Having to live with the current government rules and regulations for a century is worth it when it improves the lives of Chinese people and turns a wrecked nation into one of the most powerful players in the world, especially since a century isn't that long a time compared to the rest of its history.
It was even worse than most people will believe.
A controversial move at the Games was the benching of two American Jewish runners, Marty Glickman and Sam Stoller. Both had trained for the 4x100-meter relay, but on the day before the event, they were replaced by Jesse Owens and Ralph Metcalfe, the team's two fastest sprinters. Various reasons were given for the change. The coaches claimed they needed their fastest runners to win the race. Glickman has said that Coach Dean Cromwell and Avery Brundage were motivated by anti-Semitism and the desire to spare the Führer the embarrassing sight of two American Jews on the winning podium. Stoller did not believe anti-Semitism was involved, but the 21-year-old described the incident in his diary as the ?most humiliating episode? in his life.
Text
AAjax
Diamond Member
- Feb 17, 2001
- 3,798
- 0
- 0
I fear if you judge a people by its politicians we may well be in the realm of monsters ourselves. I love my nation, but the men who run it I haven't ever liked. We have no one to blame but ourselves, we let television tell us how to think and who to vote for.
trenchfoot
Lifer
- Aug 5, 2000
- 15,471
- 7,993
- 136
East Asian Communist Totalitarianism vs. Western Democratic Capitalism. What strange bedpartners.
I can't wait to see the unusual offspring of this dalliance.
I can't wait to see the unusual offspring of this dalliance.
Originally posted by: JohnOfSheffield
Originally posted by: Dari
You really don't get it, do you?
It's about the time of the second world war and how the US acted in that period of time.
Usually all you hear is US über alles! When it comes to that time, the acknowlegement that the US did indead use laws that influenced Nazi Germany is a big one that very few are willing to make, the truth is that initially Hitler was thought of as a Hero in the US and for that very reason the US would not want to get involved until Hitler himself could reach an agreement with Roosevelt.
There are very few who acknowledge this well known fact and so i am impressed that a man like Genx87, a good man, obviously, but also a man who has tried to negate the impact of the Iraq war and the lies that were made to build up to it, that he admits something like this about his own country... i'm impressed.
It has absolutely NOTHING to do with critisising America but all to do with admitting what has happened, something most Americans, just like us Brits, are not too good at doing.
Please. You're obviously very selective about what you read here. Try reading more and you'll see more criticism about America from Americans. That's the American way. Unlike you we can curse out our President and still sing God Bless America. You know why? Because the Presidency is more important than the President. In England, you have to worship the Queen (lest you want to have your head chopped off). lol@monarchies.
Because being critical of America dosen't mean you hate it enough to leave it. An example: You and your significant other get into a heated argument, and you both are adamant about your positions. You can do two things:
1) Break up over the argument
2) Try to convince the other person that your side is the right side, and if you still don't agree, just live with it
Now, #1 is effective, but frankly, seems drastic and childish, especially if you and your SO have been together for awhile. Do you really want to throw out all the good over just one argument? #2 is a more reasoned approach. And, come on, there must be something that you would like to see change about America, isn't it? Does that mean you hate it too?
You are wrong. We are a Xenuocracy. The US is run by scientologists awaiting the return fo the great one.Originally posted by: noto12ious
at least you admit it's a dictatorship
funny. if china's so bad, why do billions continue to live in it?
you have yet to disprove anything i said. go ahead and try. i'll enjoy watching you fail.
you have yet to disprove anything i said. go ahead and try. i'll enjoy watching you fail.
btw I don't believe tinfoil hat boi lives in the US, or has ever been in the US. Or maybe I have him confused with the wrong troother. They are hard to tell apart given they don't have an original thought in their pinheads.
Having always been into WWII. I have recently been delving into the 2 decades before the war. I actually found our Eugenics program amazing as it is never talked about in any great length in our history classes. Many of our Marriage laws were nothing more than trying to seperate the races for genetic purity. Sterlization's and immigration laws trying to forbid Southern Europeans from entering our borders to keep the nordic protestant stock strong. Luckily we never rose to the level of the Nazi regime's level of crazyness that I know of.
The other subject that has got my attention is Arab nationalism and its ties to Facist Italy and Nazi Germany. Just getting into the subject and it is apparent the issues started back in the 20's and 30's after the the Allies in WWI fucked the Arabs in the ass after they fought against the Ottoman empire. Jews immigrating to Palastine after Hitler took power was an easy scapegoat for nationalist Arabs like the Grand Mufti who idolized Hitler.
Well said. I've been dismayed at the amount of hatred against China recently. Everybody seems to be focusing only on the negatives -- on the things that haven't improved as fast as most people want while ignoring the things that have improved. I think China has made great progress in such a short time.
My feeling is that personal freedoms have improved during this time -- For example, I still remember a time when everyone wore those grey Mao suits. Now I see everyone wearing different clothes so this indicates that there are more individual freedoms for people. China's government still heavily censors anything anti-government but I hope this will improve in time as the aging leaders are replaced by younger leaders.
Anyways, I have more to say on this topic but I'm at work right now and I don't want to spend too much time trying to write a long post on my feelings right now. And I have noticed that most people's opinions never change (usually we ignore/dismiss posts we disagree with and feel validated when someone posts something we agree with) so I am trying to curb my time on internet forums.
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