Beijing secretly fires lasers to disable US satellites

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Yep they do this stuff all the time, they also have scores of hackers trying to get into our government systems. Yet they are still our BFF and "valued" trading partners.

Recently, they also tried to steal an F-16 engine, and I've heard rumors that the wreckage fro m the F-117 that was shot down over Bosnia was being stored in the Chinese embassy that Clinton bombed by "mistake".

...and you think we don't or have not done the same in the past with China or other nations ?? Please buy a clue. This is a game all nations play with each other even those considered to be close "allies" or "friends" of the US.

 

[umbrella39]

Fricken Chinese sharks and their damn lasers!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: astrosfan90

Originally posted by: ayabe
Yep they do this stuff all the time, they also have scores of hackers trying to get into our government systems. Yet they are still our BFF and "valued" trading partners.

Meh. Cutting off trade with China would hurt the US economy far more than it would hurt them. China knows this and so do we. And if the last few years are any indication, the US population doesn't react too well to decisions that increase prices while wages stagnate or drop.

I don't think so. We have a choice in who we buy from, the price we pay for a lot of goods would almost certainly go up, but we are a wealthy country (relativly speaking), the price increases would not be crippling, and would probably be short lived in any case as other countries would gladly take up the slack. But it doesn't really work the other way around, excess supply is far more damaging for the supplier than excess demand is for the consumer, when demand exceeds supply by a large margin, economic theory suggests than supply will shift to meet demand. When supply exceeds demand, however, more demand will not magically be created to make up for it. Communism essentially proved that you can't have a supply driven economy, it simply doesn't work. Obviously supply is necessary in a healthy economic system, but it's the tail, not the dog.

Although getting advice from Tom Clancy books generally only works if you are President Reagan, "The Bear and the Dragon" contains a very relevant point about a theoretical cut off of trade with China...we can buy from any number of sources, although at a slightly higher price, while there is only one United States of America to sell to...it is easier to find alternative sources of the products China makes for us than it is for them to find alternative buyers. A big part of that is that they don't sell us anything specialized, nothing we'd have trouble getting anywhere else. Your Dell may be made in China, but Taiwan, Korea, India, etc, would be happy to start taking orders.

 

[bobdelt]

cant we all just get along?

 

[beyoku]

i love china. good job!

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: beyoku
i love china. good job!

Please go to your homeland then..

I suppose you also loved the Tiannenman Square incident too

You love CENSORSHIP

You love LACK OF FREEDOM

You love killing your female baby too

You love clubbing your neighbors dog to death because it may or may not have the necessary shots.. and then when your neighbor cries and tries to stop you chase them and club them to death also

Love China all you want .. but please do it from their shore

 

[ProfJohn]

When they figure out how to attach these lasers to sharks then I'll get worried.

 

[Azndude2190]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: beyoku
i love china. good job!

Please go to your homeland then..

I suppose you also loved the Tiannenman Square incident too

You love CENSORSHIP

You love LACK OF FREEDOM

You love killing your female baby too

You love clubbing your neighbors dog to death because it may or may not have the necessary shots.. and then when your neighbor cries and tries to stop you chase them and club them to death also

Love China all you want .. but please do it from their shore

:roll:

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Azndude2190

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: beyoku
i love china. good job!

Please go to your homeland then..

I suppose you also loved the Tiannenman Square incident too

You love CENSORSHIP

You love LACK OF FREEDOM

You love killing your female baby too

You love clubbing your neighbors dog to death because it may or may not have the necessary shots.. and then when your neighbor cries and tries to stop you chase them and club them to death also

Love China all you want .. but please do it from their shore

:roll:

You love China too.. right? Tell us why they are so great.. maybe I can be swayed to reduce some of my hatred for their restriction of human freedoms and their disgusting censorship.. I see the Chinese PEOPLE as Great people.. but their Govt and Leaders are 10x worse than Mr. Bush and the neocons..

 

[judasmachine]

Do we even want to delve into the kind of things our government has been doing in the shadows? I have a feeling this kind of 'war' happens all the time, since WWII. Whether pointed at Eastern Europe, China, Middle East, whatever. I think we just have a younger player now.

 

[beyoku]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
Do we even want to delve into the kind of things our government has been doing in the shadows? I have a feeling this kind of 'war' happens all the time, since WWII. Whether pointed at Eastern Europe, China, Middle East, whatever. I think we just have a younger player now.

Exactly.....Im not Chinese either. If we want to talk about dirty deeds how far will we go back? Anyway, i love China, and i support it. I like Chinese food, they have kung fu, they make cheap goods. i like their eyes. hmm what else. Chinese calligraphy, art and poetry is best. Its a lot of them so they got us beat in numbers...etc etc etc. Why cant i like the Chinese. Isreal spys on the US! and we LOVE to support them 100%??? Yea so what, the Chinese torture people cause they are "suspected" of stuff....we do it to so it must be ok.

 

[CaptnKirk]

. . and if you carefully rearange the words in the Topic Header, you get what China belives:

US satellites secretly fires lasers to disable Beijing

 

[Craig234]

Heh, so the country that is spying on everyone is peace loving, and the country trying to prevent from being spied upon is engaging in some hostile activity.....

The US is spending a fortune trying to develop space-based weapons for world dominance, so that the agenda won't have to deal with the pesky problems posed by public opinion when 3,000 US troops are killed. This is, of course, enormously destabilizing to the balance of power in the world.

Because I think that the US gaining such dominance is a huge threat to the world freedom, because the US would shift yet further from being the world's leading champion of democracy into the corrupt power such imbalance would cause, I strongly oppose such weapons and support nations developing counter-measures.

The need is far more than against reconnaisance satellites as in the quote above - it's for defense from space-based attack.

Unfortunately, the US public is too caught up in Desperate Housewives or following militaristic ideologies to supervise its government and prevent these aggressive weapons programs.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Heh, so the country that is spying on everyone is peace loving, and the country trying to prevent from being spied upon is engaging in some hostile activity.....

The US is spending a fortune trying to develop space-based weapons for world dominance, so that the agenda won't have to deal with the pesky problems posed by public opinion when 3,000 US troops are killed. This is, of course, enormously destabilizing to the balance of power in the world.

Because I think that the US gaining such dominance is a huge threat to the world freedom, because the US would shift yet further from being the world's leading champion of democracy into the corrupt power such imbalance would cause, I strongly oppose such weapons and support nations developing counter-measures.

The need is far more than against reconnaisance satellites as in the quote above - it's for defense from space-based attack.

Unfortunately, the US public is too caught up in Desperate Housewives or following militaristic ideologies to supervise its government and prevent these aggressive weapons programs.

funny that these so-called agressive weapons programs have prevented the world from speaking Chinese and Russian for the past 60 years.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Craig234

Heh, so the country that is spying on everyone is peace loving, and the country trying to prevent from being spied upon is engaging in some hostile activity.....

The US is spending a fortune trying to develop space-based weapons for world dominance, so that the agenda won't have to deal with the pesky problems posed by public opinion when 3,000 US troops are killed. This is, of course, enormously destabilizing to the balance of power in the world.

Because I think that the US gaining such dominance is a huge threat to the world freedom, because the US would shift yet further from being the world's leading champion of democracy into the corrupt power such imbalance would cause, I strongly oppose such weapons and support nations developing counter-measures.

The need is far more than against reconnaisance satellites as in the quote above - it's for defense from space-based attack.

Unfortunately, the US public is too caught up in Desperate Housewives or following militaristic ideologies to supervise its government and prevent these aggressive weapons programs.

funny that these so-called agressive weapons programs have prevented the world from speaking Chinese and Russian for the past 60 years.

and German or Japanese before that...

 

[Craig234]

The aggressive weapons programs I refer to do not yet exist as actual weapons yet, and have not prevented anything for 60 years.

You clearly are unable to comprehend any idea of "too much" military power. The more the better - you are not able to recognize any danger to any nation, even the greatest champion of freedom in history, having such utterly dominant weapons, able to blackmail other nations into submission, succumbing to corruption from that amount of power.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: Craig234
The aggressive weapons programs I refer to do not yet exist as actual weapons yet, and have not prevented anything for 60 years.

You clearly are unable to comprehend any idea of "too much" military power. The more the better - you are not able to recognize any danger to any nation, even the greatest champion of freedom in history, having such utterly dominant weapons, able to blackmail other nations into submission, succumbing to corruption from that amount of power.

The A bomb did not exist back in 1940 Had it existed, it may have aleviated problems back then.

When the US was the only country to have the A-bomb, was such leverage used to blackmail other nations?

Every leap in technology coiuld be termed aggressive because it generates an advantage for the person that has it. the difference is in how it is applied.

Gunpowder, Armour, elephants, galleys, artillery, aircraft, submarines, chemical weapons, missiles, etc

All were develop and provided an advantage to the user when the opponent did not have such capability

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Drift3r

Originally posted by: ayabe
Yep they do this stuff all the time, they also have scores of hackers trying to get into our government systems. Yet they are still our BFF and "valued" trading partners.

Recently, they also tried to steal an F-16 engine, and I've heard rumors that the wreckage fro m the F-117 that was shot down over Bosnia was being stored in the Chinese embassy that Clinton bombed by "mistake".

...and you think we don't or have not done the same in the past with China or other nations ?? Please buy a clue. This is a game all nations play with each other even those considered to be close "allies" or "friends" of the US.

It's not just that, it's their human rights violations, their unfair trading practices, their currency manipulation, and the fact that there is no word for "intellectual property" in any of the Chinese languages.

Sorry but all of this leads me to believe we should not have them as a valued trading partner.

 

[kingtas]

Heck. One of these days China is going to figure out that we don't have enough troops to fight in Afganistan and Iraq, guard our southern border from illegal workers, and they will attack in force. So study up on Chinese now.

 

[BDawg]

Not to worry. We're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: kingtas
Heck. One of these days China is going to figure out that we don't have enough troops to fight in Afganistan and Iraq, guard our southern border from illegal workers, and they will attack in force. So study up on Chinese now.

Unless they can teach Canadians or Mexicans Chinese, we should not need to worry. they have no naval force and their air force is suspect.

 

[Trianon]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

The A bomb did not exist back in 1940 Had it existed, it may have aleviated problems back then.

When the US was the only country to have the A-bomb, was such leverage used to blackmail other nations?

yes, in fact the US did Only the USSR was quick enough to steal the design info and develop a bomb of their own to beat that card. Right after WWII Churchill (Cold War Manifesto in Fulton) was pushing Truman to bomb Moscow (plan Totality), and later on until 60s US doctrine was constantly revised to increase number of Soviet cities bombed during first strike to ensure no retaliation would be possible(plan Dropshot, etc...).

 

[rchiu]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

funny that these so-called agressive weapons programs have prevented the world from speaking Chinese and Russian for the past 60 years.

Heh, the only thing those aggressive spying program did was determining that there was WMD in Iraq....wait....

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I don't think so. We have a choice in who we buy from, the price we pay for a lot of goods would almost certainly go up, but we are a wealthy country (relativly speaking), the price increases would not be crippling, and would probably be short lived in any case as other countries would gladly take up the slack. But it doesn't really work the other way around, excess supply is far more damaging for the supplier than excess demand is for the consumer, when demand exceeds supply by a large margin, economic theory suggests than supply will shift to meet demand. When supply exceeds demand, however, more demand will not magically be created to make up for it. Communism essentially proved that you can't have a supply driven economy, it simply doesn't work. Obviously supply is necessary in a healthy economic system, but it's the tail, not the dog.

Although getting advice from Tom Clancy books generally only works if you are President Reagan, "The Bear and the Dragon" contains a very relevant point about a theoretical cut off of trade with China...we can buy from any number of sources, although at a slightly higher price, while there is only one United States of America to sell to...it is easier to find alternative sources of the products China makes for us than it is for them to find alternative buyers. A big part of that is that they don't sell us anything specialized, nothing we'd have trouble getting anywhere else. Your Dell may be made in China, but Taiwan, Korea, India, etc, would be happy to start taking orders.

Look at Rainsford go, bust'n out the economics book. Very impressive.
There are TONS of countries that would love to make toys for Walmart to sell for less. India, Malaysia, all of Africa and perhaps even Iraq if and when we can get the security problem there handled.
It would make a lot more sense for a long term point of view to shift our trade to our "new" allies like Iraq and Afghanistan in order to prop up thier economies.

Another thing you guys are forgetting about China is its aging problem. Because of ?population? control they are not having enough babies to replace the people as they age. Eventually, maybe 20 years from now, this will catch up to them big time. They will end up with 30-40% of their population being past working age. Imagine our Social Security problems in a country with a LOT more people and a lot less younger replacement workers.

 

[tweakmm]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

Originally posted by: Craig234

Heh, so the country that is spying on everyone is peace loving, and the country trying to prevent from being spied upon is engaging in some hostile activity.....

The US is spending a fortune trying to develop space-based weapons for world dominance, so that the agenda won't have to deal with the pesky problems posed by public opinion when 3,000 US troops are killed. This is, of course, enormously destabilizing to the balance of power in the world.

Because I think that the US gaining such dominance is a huge threat to the world freedom, because the US would shift yet further from being the world's leading champion of democracy into the corrupt power such imbalance would cause, I strongly oppose such weapons and support nations developing counter-measures.

The need is far more than against reconnaisance satellites as in the quote above - it's for defense from space-based attack.

Unfortunately, the US public is too caught up in Desperate Housewives or following militaristic ideologies to supervise its government and prevent these aggressive weapons programs.

funny that these so-called agressive weapons programs have prevented the world from speaking Chinese and Russian for the past 60 years.

and German or Japanese before that...

Given the two previous comments, does anyone find it slightly ironic that the whole world speaks English now? :laugh: