Beginning of the beginning?

[The Green Bean]

1 If science says that the big bang happened, It mustve started from something. Like a dot. So where did that dot come from?

2 Also What happens to the feeling of beings oneself after death? You cant just not exist if you think about it.

3 What gives someone individuality. Why are you yourself? Why can you feel only yourseld? Why can you see what your body sees? Why are you inside your body?

4 How are there so many individuals each thinking for himself? Like if you are you, then a new baby must also be thinking the same way. So how are there increasing? Where did "we" come from?

5 Does a baby remember what happens inside his/her mother's womb? How is something born? Like a sperm? How is the sperm created which becomes you. Were you a sperm that evolved? Could you feel yourself when you were a sperm? If yes then before the sperm?

 

[Shalmanese]

1. mu
2. mu
3. it's an illusion
4. when a daddy hatim and a mommy hatim love each other very much...
5. no, usually through the vagina, sort of, in the testicles, no, no, mu

Seriously, whats up with the crappy pseudo-philosophy that's invaded HT?

 

[amish]

i'm only going to answer #5

a. no
b. first there is conception, then the organism grows, then it pops out
c. sperm is created by something called cell meiosis look it up on google
d. sperm don't evolve
e. no, i couldn't feel myself swimming around
f. -

i think the only highly techinical part of this was cell meiosis which isn't difficult to understand.

 

[DrPizza]

I'll answer 1.

There are differing ideas... none has been proven. And, it is quite possible that none will ever be proven.
Current models:
The universe is like a big yoyo... it's always been there.... big bang followed by big collapse, followed by big bang,. . .
(that theory has the potential of being disproven, or at least, it is possible to prove that the current incarnation of the universe may not have enough mass to eventually collapse due to gravitational effects. For years, it was "too close to call", but IIRC, current knowledge is being challenged by the revelation that the expansion of the universe may actually be speeding up. I think that recently they decided once and for all that the universe will not collapse, but I may be mistaken...

Another model: the universe as we know it may just be a big burp off the side of a larger universe.

Another model: God or some other Supreme Being created the conditions for the Big Bang

And finally, another model: it may just have appeared out of nothingness. As much as that may bother you - "common sense" indicates that things don't just "pop into and out of existence" - but it happens all the time. At the quantum level, it is a very chaotic sea of particles popping into and out of existence. While we don't directly observe these particles popping into and out of existence, each has its own probability.... the higher the mass of the particle, the lower the probability. Nonetheless, we HAVE experimentally observed the interaction these particles have on other particles. It is quite possible (but extremely low probablility) that a particle massive enough for the big bang just popped into existence. Things that make my head spin are considering that there wasn't time before the big bang, thus, a probability of "once in a trillion years" wouldn't make any sense... Anyway, if you want to get some headaches, take quantum mechanics in college. One of the major concentrations of current theory is finding a grand unified theory which would help link together what we know happens at the quantum level and what we know happens on astronomical scales.

 

[Falloutboy]

Originally posted by: hatim
1 If science says that the big bang happened, It mustve started from something. Like a dot. So where did that dot come from?

2 Also What happens to the feeling of beings oneself after death? You cant just not exist if you think about it.

3 What gives someone individuality. Why are you yourself? Why can you feel only yourseld? Why can you see what your body sees? Why are you inside your body?

4 How are there so many individuals each thinking for himself? Like if you are you, then a new baby must also be thinking the same way. So how are there increasing? Where did "we" come from?

5 Does a baby remember what happens inside his/her mother's womb? How is something born? Like a sperm? How is the sperm created which becomes you. Were you a sperm that evolved? Could you feel yourself when you were a sperm? If yes then before the sperm?

LOL this is some pretty funny stuff

 

[oneshot47]

Originally posted by: hatim
1 If science says that the big bang happened, It mustve started from something. Like a dot. So where did that dot come from?

2 Also What happens to the feeling of beings oneself after death? You cant just not exist if you think about it.

3 What gives someone individuality. Why are you yourself? Why can you feel only yourseld? Why can you see what your body sees? Why are you inside your body?

4 How are there so many individuals each thinking for himself? Like if you are you, then a new baby must also be thinking the same way. So how are there increasing? Where did "we" come from?

5 Does a baby remember what happens inside his/her mother's womb? How is something born? Like a sperm? How is the sperm created which becomes you. Were you a sperm that evolved? Could you feel yourself when you were a sperm? If yes then before the sperm?

The answer is obviously 42.

If not, then im sure that the AT forums will know.

 

[TuxDave]

I'll answer #2:

It's hard to imagine, but it's possible to just 'not exist'. I blacked out one time after giving blood and woke up on a stretcher. The last 5 minutes, did not exist to me. I didn't see a black void of nothingness. I did not sit around in empty space listening to voices or just simply waiting. It just NEVER happened. Death is like that, but just without the waking up part.

 

[naruto1988]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
I'll answer #2:

It's hard to imagine, but it's possible to just 'not exist'. I blacked out one time after giving blood and woke up on a stretcher. The last 5 minutes, did not exist to me. I didn't see a black void of nothingness. I did not sit around in empty space listening to voices or just simply waiting. It just NEVER happened. Death is like that, but just without the waking up part.

yea, that's how i think too. i don't see much point in religion except it keeps order. but otherwise, it's all BS to me. i don't believe in god or anything. when you die, you never existed unless u left a mark in history and people remember u. but that's about it.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: TuxDave
I'll answer #2:

It's hard to imagine, but it's possible to just 'not exist'. I blacked out one time after giving blood and woke up on a stretcher. The last 5 minutes, did not exist to me. I didn't see a black void of nothingness. I did not sit around in empty space listening to voices or just simply waiting. It just NEVER happened. Death is like that, but just without the waking up part.

Actually you just dont remember what you saw in those 5 mins. If your brain would be dead for so long, you would be dead.

1 Also Nothing can become of nothing unless someone makes it.

2 What exists outside the unviverse?

3 And the law of Quantum Mechanics would only apply to theis universe. If there was no universe no time, there could be nothing becoming. And probility would not apply becuase there is no time. And there is no such thing as infinity. There must be sometime that this universe was made. Like if its still expanding, then why isnt it more bigger if it started before it actually did. Why are we in the specific time that we are in? Just proves that there has to be someone who created. But we cannot recognize him. Infinity only applies to GOD. If you think infinity can apply to the universe, then is it GOD? Its size is not infinity so then how can its size be infinity. Sadly we cannot study anything outside the unverse so we cannot say that Quantum Physics made that particle.

4 And if someone made us? Why?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: TuxDave
I'll answer #2:

It's hard to imagine, but it's possible to just 'not exist'. I blacked out one time after giving blood and woke up on a stretcher. The last 5 minutes, did not exist to me. I didn't see a black void of nothingness. I did not sit around in empty space listening to voices or just simply waiting. It just NEVER happened. Death is like that, but just without the waking up part.

Actually you just dont remember what you saw in those 5 mins. If your brain would be dead for so long, you would be dead.

Since you're trying to be a biology brainiac, being unconscious does not mean the brain has shut down. It just means that you are not capable of sensory abilities. Your primary motor functions like your heart beats etc still goes on, it's just that you no longer hear, smell, whatever.... When you sleep, you're not unconscious. So it's not like I 'do not remember'. It's more like, my brain never processed anything any sensory inputs at that time. 'Do not remember' merely means it was stored and then lost.

And I'm saying that similiar to what happens with your feelings of being yourself once you die. There's no question of where it goes. It simply ceases to exist. If you turn off a lightbulb, where does the light go? It doesn't move on to some other lightbulb. It just turns off. Very hard to visualize until you to experience unconsciousness. Then it becomes very easy to see.

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: hatim

3 And the law of Quantum Mechanics would only apply to theis universe. If there was no universe no time, there could be nothing becoming. And probility would not apply becuase there is no time. And there is no such thing as infinity. There must be sometime that this universe was made. Like if its still expanding, then why isnt it more bigger if it started before it actually did. Why are we in the specific time that we are in? Just proves that there has to be someone who created. But we cannot recognize him. Infinity only applies to GOD. If you think infinity can apply to the universe, then is it GOD? Its size is not infinity so then how can its size be infinity. Sadly we cannot study anything outside the unverse so we cannot say that Quantum Physics made that particle.

Your writing style is like the Bible and it hurts my head, but nonethess I'll give it my best shot to some points before I get bored.

"If there was no universe no time..." - If the universe always existed...
"there could be nothing becoming..." - things could not come out of no where...

I don't see how those two follow. How does the existance of an eternal universe prove that things cannot come from no where?

"And probility would not apply becuase there is no time"

Ok... since probability is a statistic based for some occurance. I guess if nothing ever happened, there would be no probability. Unless you say that there's a 100% probability of nothing happening. Heh...

Like if its still expanding, then why isnt it more bigger if it started before it actually did"

Stars are moving apart... if you don't believe red shifts or blue shifts, just take out a really long ruler and fly really fast.

And there is no such thing as infinity.

Says you...

Just proves that there has to be someone who created.

Why do things move? Because something moved it. What made THAT move... something moved THAT. It continues forever. One possible remedy is to introduce the concept of an 'unmovable mover'. People say that's God. Some people say that there's no need for that. The state can simply just exist. There's no need for a 'starting point' just as there is no number to describe the smallest integer greater than zero.... in... conventional math that is.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: hatim

1 Also Nothing can become of nothing unless someone makes it.

Wrong. things can AND DO pop into and out of existence all the time (with no once making them)

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: hatim

1 Also Nothing can become of nothing unless someone makes it.

Wrong. things can AND DO pop into and out of existence all the time (with no once making them)

Like? Not possible. Space is a thing. Its inside the universe. Outside the universe nothing exists. So then how did the universe come into being. It is not possible that something becomes of nothing. Suppose things do just appear from nothing. How? How?

1. Do you agree that matter cannot increase? Like there is a fixed amount of matter in the universe. It can be changed to energy but not the other way roud. So it is energy+Matter is always stationary. So where did the initial matter come from? Is is impossible that we just came into existence like that. Science will never be able to explain that. Its a supereme being that created the universe.

2. Has anyone been outside the universe? Then how can he tell.

3. If there is absolutely nothing. No time no matter, no nothing. Nothingness which cannot be explained in words. How can something appear.

4. There is a creator for sure. You can't just assume that something popped up. Just becuase we cant explain/understand god doesnt mean he doesnt exist.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: hatim
1 Also Nothing can become of nothing unless someone makes it.

3 And the law of Quantum Mechanics would only apply to theis universe...
And there is no such thing as infinity. There must be sometime that this universe was made. Like if its still expanding, then why isnt it more bigger if it started before it actually did.
Why are we in the specific time that we are in? Just proves that there has to be someone who created. But we cannot recognize him. Infinity only applies to GOD. Sadly we cannot study anything outside the unverse so we cannot say that Quantum Physics made that particle.

Your statement 1 was believed in Enlightenment times. It wants to talk about Physics and concepts/divine activities as one. Modern physics is different, and I don't think such a statement can be held.
You are right that physics only applies to the universe. The Big Bang theory (presumably) is a physical theory with a time dimention taking values between 0 and infinity, including or not including 0 - it doesn't matter. So if we talk about the creation of the universe what we say is not physics - just as you claim in saying quantum mechanics can't have caused the creation of the universe. Distinguishing the "first cause" of creation from the causes that may or may not exist in physics is useful. To understand the first cause argument today for God, we have to understand "cause" as something distinct from physical causes, and more to do with purposes and goals (which post-Aristotelian physics does not incorporate), the argument trying to claim one goal, purpose, or meaning of human existence- searching for your unrecognisable God who is completely outside the empirical universe yet nevertheless can be known.

Your writing style is like the Bible

You should read the Bible some more! Actually it's more like Buddism I think - in style that is. hatim is quite a mystic!

 

[The Green Bean]

Im not a christian nor buddhist. Ive never read the bible not buddhist literature.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: hatim

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: hatim

1 Also Nothing can become of nothing unless someone makes it.

Wrong. things can AND DO pop into and out of existence all the time (with no once making them)

Like? Not possible. Space is a thing. Its inside the universe. Outside the universe nothing exists. So then how did the universe come into being. It is not possible that something becomes of nothing. Suppose things do just appear from nothing. How? How?

1. Do you agree that matter cannot increase? Like there is a fixed amount of matter in the universe. It can be changed to energy but not the other way roud. So it is energy+Matter is always stationary. So where did the initial matter come from? Is is impossible that we just came into existence like that. Science will never be able to explain that. Its a supereme being that created the universe.

2. Has anyone been outside the universe? Then how can he tell.

3. If there is absolutely nothing. No time no matter, no nothing. Nothingness which cannot be explained in words. How can something appear.

4. There is a creator for sure. You can't just assume that something popped up. Just becuase we cant explain/understand god doesnt mean he doesnt exist.

Apparently you do not understand.... you are relying on your intuition rather than actual knowledge. Unfortunately, your intuition is incorrect. Particles can and do pop into existence, in matter/anti-matter pairs. They are generally destined to annihilate each other and wink out of existence... They are referred to as "virtual particles." During their short existence, it is possible for them to have an influence on other particles already in our universe.. this has been observed.

Under certain circumstances, the particles may not annihilate each other. In this case, the particles become "real particles." Such a case is when these particles pop into existence very near to a black hole.. this was proposed by Stephen Hawking in the early 70's and in part led to his fame as an astrophysicist. Google "Hawking radiation" for more information.

 

[Cobalt]

Isn't this forum for hardware related, HIGHLY TECHNICAL things. Seriously.. what is with all the puzzles, etc.

 

[tinyabs]

There are questions about this appearing now and then. Let's discuss 64-bits instead, shall we?

 

[Shalmanese]

I personally like bit 47 the best although there is something to be said for bit 13.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: cobalt
Isn't this forum for hardware related, HIGHLY TECHNICAL things. Seriously.. what is with all the puzzles, etc.

Let's see... software forum... CPU forum.... hardware forum.... case forum..... What do you have left?

However, since the question in this thread did result in minor discussion about quantum mechanics, it is related to computing (quantum computing?). I agree though, this thread was probably better suited for off topic. Nonetheless, there have been some excellent discussions about various problems not exactly directly related to computing. Most of those discussions would have had too much back-ground noise had they been in off-topic.

My favorite discussion was concerning what would happen if you drilled a hole through the center of earth and out the other side, then dropped an object into it. I'm still interested in that problem

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

My favorite discussion was concerning what would happen if you drilled a hole through the center of earth and out the other side, then dropped an object into it. I'm still interested in that problem

If I had to guess, if everything was symmetrical, then the object would fall down, oscillate like a spring and eventually settle in the center of the earth?

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: hatim

4. There is a creator for sure. You can't just assume that something popped up. Just becuase we cant explain/understand god doesnt mean he doesnt exist.

Umm.... you seem to already have all your answers if you insist that a creator exists. There is no proof against that theory since everything that is possibly observable can be attributed to His existance.

Originally posted by: CSMR
You should read the Bible some more! Actually it's more like Buddism I think - in style that is. hatim is quite a mystic!

lol... working on it. At first everything was readable (beginning of Matthews), but after a while, my brain started hurting because there were so many metaphors being used. I had no clue what was going on after a while.

 

[Geniere]

?I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of certainty about different things, but I'm not absolutely sure of anything, and many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it means anything to ask why we're here, and what the question might mean. I might think about it a little bit, but if I can't figure it out, then I go on to something else. But I don't have to know an answer. I don't have to... I don't feel frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in the mysterious universe without having any purpose, which is the way it really is, as far as I can tell, possibly. It doesn't frighten me.

Living a religious life is relatively easy. You already know what you're supposed to do. Your life purpose may be to please a certain god or gods here on Earth so that you may enter a place of eternal happiness after death, or it may be to break a cycle of reincarnation in order to "become one" with the universe. But whatever religion you may choose to accept, you will always have the comfort that what you're doing here on Earth isn't a waste of your brief and precious life.?

Richard Feynman

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by: hatim
1 If science says that the big bang happened, It mustve started from something. Like a dot. So where did that dot come from?

2 Also What happens to the feeling of beings oneself after death? You cant just not exist if you think about it.

3 What gives someone individuality. Why are you yourself? Why can you feel only yourseld? Why can you see what your body sees? Why are you inside your body?

4 How are there so many individuals each thinking for himself? Like if you are you, then a new baby must also be thinking the same way. So how are there increasing? Where did "we" come from?

5 Does a baby remember what happens inside his/her mother's womb? How is something born? Like a sperm? How is the sperm created which becomes you. Were you a sperm that evolved? Could you feel yourself when you were a sperm? If yes then before the sperm?

This is all answered in "The Book On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are" by Alan Watts. It's 163 pages long so it's not too painful to read. My Father turned me on to this book and refers to it as "The Red Pill" (ala Matrix).

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: TuxDave

Originally posted by: DrPizza

My favorite discussion was concerning what would happen if you drilled a hole through the center of earth and out the other side, then dropped an object into it. I'm still interested in that problem

If I had to guess, if everything was symmetrical, then the object would fall down, oscillate like a spring and eventually settle in the center of the earth?

Well, as far as we got conclusively, the hole would have to be from the geographic north pole to the south pole (to avoid the coriolis effect. )

As an artificial problem - "ignore air resistance and any other losses of energy" it would oscillate back and forth indefinitely.. falling from the north pole, arriving at the south pole, and returning to the north pole, back and forth.

However, when one DOES factor in air resistance, 1 of 3 situations will occur
a) oscillate back and forth, eventually settling at the center
b) pass the center, and slowly return to the center (if you graphed the distance from the center, it would approach it assymptotically
c) it would slow down and never pass the center.

I'm fairly convinced the answer is (c), but I'm not 100% certain. I discussed the problem at lunch with some physics professors (all phd's) Their immediate answer was it would oscillate back and forth from pole to pole. Then I told them not to ignore air resistance and they were intrigued with the complexity of the problem. They also thought the answer would most likely be (b) or (c), and were leaning toward (c) after my explanation and some brief calculations on a napkin.